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This is a very sad outlook on life, in my opinion.This is still a conditional statement for which I, personally, am not willing to thrust upon my children.
They CAN also be spiritual derelicts despite my instruction.
That is a human romanticism of the relationship between God and humans. "It is better to love and lost the to never loved at all" is a way humans try to rationalise fantastical circumstance. You cannot confirm that is better to be alive than not exist at all.
Nope, but I know my hypothetical children will be born "sons and daughters of man," and that is a curse. So, I am not going to bound my children to the curse of being born sons of daughters of men.
Ok, so? The issue of choice of being is still existent - as well as the implications.
Hope... is one of the most devestating human romanticism ever thought of.
Even in human 'lore, people still don't realize how incredibly incredibly dangerous it was that Pandora let it escape - closing the box too late.
It is a falsehood, just as evil as everything else that came out of that box - except if it is in the Most High God.
I mean open a new thread.No, I am in a bad habit of derailing threads as it is.
I dont get the debate about salvation. For me the Lord saves me everr day, as i thirst for God he refreshes my soul. I dont worry about salvation because i follow the Lord.I don't really relish the idea of arguing once saved always saved with people who believe you can lose salvation. It isn't profitable. No one is convinced of the other's position and it just gets people riled up.
I suppose it is a question of assurance. We OSAS believers are into assurance- God has saved me, God does save me, God will save me.I dont get the debate about salvation. For me the Lord saves me everr day, as i thirst for God he refreshes my soul. I dont worry about salvation because i follow the Lord.
Galatea,I suppose it is a question of assurance. We OSAS believers are into assurance- God has saved me, God does save me, God will save me.
Our brothers who do not hold to OSAS think we are being presumptuous, we think they are not accessing God's grace and trying to be legalistic.
The thing is, we CAN fellowship around the person of Christ and the fact that He saves us by His grace. We just argue about the keeping part.
I understand, thank you. There was a time that i did worry about salvation. I suppose i should remember that. I struggled with understanding salvation and the law. The Lord finally brought me through that, and other things.I suppose it is a question of assurance. We OSAS believers are into assurance- God has saved me, God does save me, God will save me.
Our brothers who do not hold to OSAS think we are being presumptuous, we think they are not accessing God's grace and trying to be legalistic.
The thing is, we CAN fellowship around the person of Christ and the fact that He saves us by His grace. We just argue about the keeping part.
Wait a minute...
We just got through talking about how many people are pained asking this exact question - precisely because they had no choice. And, then some of these same people were told that, "you are here, you are now, you live, get over it and make a choice."
Perfectly fine.
However, I think it is asinine NOT to thoroughly think about the implications LIFE would have on your own offspring - including afterlife considerations respective to your beliefs. I would say it is PRUDENT to think about the wellbeing of your future child, and to at least have a plan about how to approach and cultivate your child's best chances for a life and afterlife before having them. Others take it a step further by asking, " Why do I want a child in THIS time, knowing THESE things about life and the afterlife: would my child want to be born into "this?" Would my child be able to stay strong and resist the powerful evil in the world - destroying his or her chances of being with the Creator?
Really? What was that? These "people" need to "grow up".Parenting is more than having children because the activity feels good, and then dealing with existential philosophy from the consequences of the birth of your child, and from what they bring up, on the fly as you parent.
That is reckless, and one of the reasons why people are highly confused about the purpose of their genesis - especially given the circumstances of this planet in the last 1500 years, frankly.
And that has what to do with anything?It isn't like they believe their child would save the world (like the Hebrews throuth prophecy,) or at least shouldnt; someone has already saved the world. So, the idea that we are having children for a better tomorrow - like we are biological factories of reproduction producing more bodies for the betterment of the STATE - is the real ludicrous situation. I would like to think most people fully think about these physical, metaphysical and spiritual implications of having a child; not that we breed them, and then tell them to toughen up and deal with life. Then, there IS some responsibility that falls on the parent.
Bull back at you.Bull.
If YOU have a REAL VALID reason that does not fall under the three I listed please enlighten us.I won't have children specifiAly because of social, cultural, ethnic and spiritual reasons. People actually think about the implications of procreation for long periods of time before making the decision to have a child. Of course people are selfish, emotionally unstable, or downright sterile; those are facts of life (part of the facts of life some of us think about before breeding,) so it is very easy to give the list you gave.
The last reasons you mentioned fall under "emotionally unstable".But, it is by no measure the exhaustive list of reasons why people choose not to have children - and, they aren't even in the top 30 reasons.
You could have said peoe choose not to have children out of fear (of murderers, rapists, pathological liars, abusers, racists, bigots, nukes, etc.) and you would have been less insulting, and closer to an actual "Top 15" list of reasons.
It is good you never had this existential dillema, however it makes you ignorant if the side of the argument that makes a well-reasoned argument for not having children - even those who question why persons continue to breed seemingly without thought further than what a five year plan demands.
I know I am, without a doubt. That sounds proud, perhaps.Galatea,
Do you know you are saved as a factual thing, or do you just really really believe?
So you don't believe in God anymore, you know God. Do you still need faith since you are knowing about God?I know I am, without a doubt. That sounds proud, perhaps.
For I KNOW whom I have believed and am persuaded He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.
The whole book of I John was written to assure us of our salvation.
I John 5:12-13 "He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."
First, I believed, then I knew.
Well, do you know people and still believe in them and have faith in them?So you don't believe in God anymore, you know God. Do you still need faith since you are knowing about God?
I see what you are saying, yes what you say is coherent and sensible. I like your ideas, do you have a magazine I can subscribe tooWell, do you know people and still believe in them and have faith in them?
I do not know if you are married, but one would hope you know your wife and believe in her and have faith in her.
I know my mother, and I believe and have faith that her love for me is unconditional and eternal.
Each and every single one of you in this mindset makes the completely unsupportable assumption that God just tosses you into reality to handle it on your own. That is NOWHERE close to the truth. If you are on your own IT IS NOBDODYS FAULT BUT YOURS. Seek and ye shall find, knock and it will be opened, anyone who asks help from God gets help.
Really? What was that? These "people" need to "grow up".
And that has what to do with anything?
Bull back at you.
If YOU have a REAL VALID reason that does not fall under the three I listed please enlighten us.
The last reasons you mentioned fall under "emotionally unstable".
This is a very sad outlook on life, in my opinion.
Yes, I do believe that Heaven will be so extraordinarily wonderful that it is much better to have lived and go to Heaven than to be nonexistent.
It's a gamble, because your children may not get saved- but it is a gamble most people are willing to take. The potential blessing outweighs the potential risks.
Timothy knew the Scriptures as a child and was so close to Paul, that he called Timothy his "son after the faith". I think his mother and grandmother were glad Timothy existed.
Each and every single one of you in this mindset makes the completely unsupportable assumption that God just tosses you into reality to handle it on your own. That is NOWHERE close to the truth. If you are on your own IT IS NOBDODYS FAULT BUT YOURS. Seek and ye shall find, knock and it will be opened, anyone who asks help from God gets help.
Really? What was that? These "people" need to "grow up".
And that has what to do with anything?
Bull back at you.
If YOU have a REAL VALID reason that does not fall under the three I listed please enlighten us.
The last reasons you mentioned fall under "emotionally unstable".
Each and every single one of you in this mindset makes the completely unsupportable assumption that God just tosses you into reality to handle it on your own. That is NOWHERE close to the truth. If you are on your own IT IS NOBDODYS FAULT BUT YOURS. Seek and ye shall find, knock and it will be opened, anyone who asks help from God gets help.
Really? What was that? These "people" need to "grow up".
And that has what to do with anything?
Bull back at you.
If YOU have a REAL VALID reason that does not fall under the three I listed please enlighten us.
The last reasons you mentioned fall under "emotionally unstable".
This is a very sad outlook on life, in my opinion.
Yes, I do believe that Heaven will be so extraordinarily wonderful that it is much better to have lived and go to Heaven than to be nonexistent.
It's a gamble, because your children may not get saved- but it is a gamble most people are willing to take. The potential blessing outweighs the potential risks.
Timothy knew the Scriptures as a child and was so close to Paul, that he called Timothy his "son after the faith". I think his mother and grandmother were glad Timothy existed.
It was neither He nor you who decided to give you life, but it was your parents' decisions that led to your birth. BTW, life is meant to be a blessing .. something to be grateful for!I love the car analogy which seems perfect. And to that I ask whos decision it was to put me in that car? Mine? Hmm that means I chose to come into this world. His? ok then did He ask me if I feel capable of driving the car. If not then why am I blamed if I reck it if i was forced into the drivers seat?
If anyone brings a charge against you that you do not accept, then a judge needs to rule.And to answer your question... I dont think it would matter if I think He is a trustworthy judge or not. Hes still the judge and im trying to find the reasoning behind judging me in the first place.
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