Why are they gay?

[relspace]

this is so ridiculous.
what's this world comming to??
christians and God are\is supposed to love everyone.
regardless.
i'm so ashamed..

I haven't read any expressions of hate in this thread.

So what exactly is it that you are ashamed of?!?!

Are you ashamed that Christians with very different beliefs on this issue can discuss the issue without getting carried away and losing their tempers?

Are you ashamed that anyone would question the beliefs you hold about homosexuality, even so much as to dare discuss the matter? You speak like a member of secular religion that is so zealous in its defense of its beliefs that they would burn at the stake anyone who dares to question or speak freely on the matter. Are you one of these that use the word "homophobe" in the same manner that radical Moslems use the word "infidel"?

Or are you ashamed that not all Christians share your beliefs in this matter? I would not call that shame. I would call that a self-righteousness that is more shameful than anything I can imagine that you claim you are ashamed of. Maybe I am wrong, but I will not know until you explain yourself.

I do not fault you for thinking that you are right. Everyone here thinks that their particular point of view on this issue is right. But everyone else here can discuss the issue intellegently without condemning everyone unilaterally with a declaration of "shame."

Frankly, I think this is a particulary rude and shameful use of rhetoric. If you have an opinion then join the discussion and keep your judgements to yourself. If I have misunderstood you, then consider that your condemnation came with very little explanation.

 

[cynthiamarie]

excuse me. i was ashamed of the viewing of homosexuality as a whole.

you have shown hate and rude temper in that board. if you and everyone else are allowed to voice your opinon, so am i. i'd appreciate it very very much if you did not say rude things, or attempt to "call me out" on a board. my opinon is just as much allowed as anyone else. and i'd also truly appreciate if you wouldn't do that to me or anyone else again. thanks :]

 

[GenemZ]

excuse me. i was ashamed of the viewing of homosexuality as a whole.

OK, you were ashamed.

you have shown hate and rude temper in that board.

You know something? You are trying to get him to lose his temper my distorting his words and intentions.

He is attempting to reason, and disagree with you. He was not being rude. But, it appears that if anyone tells you that they think homosexuality is a sin, that to you, they must be rude.

And, Jesus never said we are to love everybody.

1 John 2:15 niv
"Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

​

Homosexuality is of the world. Not of God. It would be like saying adultery is from God. Two people in adultery may think they love each other. But, it is not of God.

Romans 12:9 niv
"Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good."

​

if you and everyone else are allowed to voice your opinon, so am i. i'd appreciate it very very much if you did not say rude things, or attempt to "call me out" on a board. my opinon is just as much allowed as anyone else. and i'd also truly appreciate if you wouldn't do that to me or anyone else again. thanks :]

If you do not want to get 'called out,' because of what you say?

Then I suggest you not get involved with the very things that gets one called out by the nature of what it is. Its called, "debating."

If you do not want that? Start your own web page where you can say your piece, and not be called out for what you want others to believe is truth. Have a web page that no one can respond to.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New International Version)
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

​

The whole reason for salvation is to transform the person from what he was, into something he was not before he was saved.

1 John 3:6 (Amplified Bible)
"No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains in communion with and in obedience to Him--deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habitually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him, or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him]."

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[cynthiamarie]

yeah thanks
oh yeah for nothing.

i'm allowed to have my own opinons on jesus, god, the word, homosexuality and anything else i want to. it's no one's place to tell me that i am wrong, just as it's not mine to tell them.
thanks so much. :]

and god bless you!!!

 

[ReformedChapin]

Everyone is getting carried away now...blah

Although I do agree with relspace, no one was being rude to homosexual advocates.

 

[ReformedChapin]

yeah thanks
oh yeah for nothing.

i'm allowed to have my own opinons on jesus, god, the word, homosexuality and anything else i want to. it's no one's place to tell me that i am wrong, just as it's not mine to tell them.
thanks so much. :]

and god bless you!!!

Actually if everyone is allowed to express their opinion they are allowed to express why they think you are wrong. Unless you believe in relativism which is unbiblical.

 

[cynthiamarie]

it's called personal opinon. and i'm allowed to express it just as he is.

 

[ReformedChapin]

it's called personal opinon. and i'm allowed to express it just as he is.

How about you express your opinion with some scripture to back it up? Not just stating how we are supposed to love everyone and all the stuff they do even if they are corrupting the church. There is such a thing as some people having better arguments than others.

 

[cynthiamarie]

i never said once that his arguement was better than mine or visa versa. i don't believe i need scripture to back it up. i believe that i can have a valid point and know that god supports me. i don't need scripture.

no one's corrupting the church. can i see you prove that??

now honestly. let me ask you. does it affect you for two men, down the street from your house, to be married (or in a civil union, whichever is legal in your area...if any)??? now honestly, does it truly bother you.

 

[relspace]

I am afraid this is a very hard issue for a great many people. I fear that it is tearing the United States apart at the seams. Things have happened in some states like California that have made people very afraid of the the gay rights movement. I have tried proposing compromise only to be called names over and over again. The current right wing reaction scares me, but I understand the why of it. A calm discussion of the issue is the only hope that I can see.

 

[GenemZ]

now honestly. let me ask you. does it affect you for two men, down the street from your house, to be married (or in a civil union, whichever is legal in your area...if any)??? now honestly, does it truly bother you.

But, its OK for you to be bothered, by those who find it bothering?

But, its not OK for others to be bothered by them?

What if God made certain people to be bothered by it?

Who knows? It may be in their genes to be bothered by gays and lesbians. Why do you judge them for being bothered?

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[relspace]

But, its OK for you to be bothered, by those who find it bothering?

But, its not OK for others to be bothered by them?

What if God made certain people to be bothered by it?

Who knows? It may be in their genes to be bothered by gays and lesbians. Why do you judge them for being bothered?

In Christ, GeneZ

Come now genez, you are just being clever. Be honest. You are crossing a line here. It is one thing to defend the rights of people to activities between consenting adults and quite another to defend the right of people to hate (sorry I guess you used the euphemism "be bothered" didn't you).

 

[GenemZ]

Come now genez, you are just being clever. Be honest. You are crossing a line here. It is one thing to defend the rights of people to activities between consenting adults and quite another to defend the right of people to hate (sorry I guess you used the euphemism "be bothered" didn't you).

Who's talking about hate here? You are.

Why project into what was said, what was not said? I do not hate gays. Nor, do I lovingly approve of what they do. Neither, do I lovingly approve of people committing adultery. But? Does that mean I hate people who commit adultery?

You have to introduce an element into what I said in order to gain leverage over a rare moment of cleverness? Where I come from? That's called a party pooper.

Grace and truth, GeneZ

 

[GenemZ]

I am afraid this is a very hard issue for a great many people. I fear that it is tearing the United States apart at the seams. Things have happened in some states like California that have made people very afraid of the the gay rights movement. I have tried proposing compromise only to be called names over and over again. The current right wing reaction scares me, but I understand the why of it. A calm discussion of the issue is the only hope that I can see.

Did you know that by time the Antichrist appears? That at that time homosexuality will be completely accepted as a norm?

Daniel 11:37 (New American Standard Bible
"He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify himself above them all."
​

Homosexuality will have to be accepted by then. For how else will the world openly worship him?

All that is happening now is the way is being made clear for the future Antichrist. That is why there is so much confusion. For many still are not of the same spirit as the Antichrist. But they will eventually die down in numbers as America keeps falling into more and more national degeneracy.

For the spirit that induces homosexuality does not originate with God. It is making way for its coming hero.

The pro-gay movement is making the paths clear. Like, John the Baptist, when he was making the paths clear for the coming Christ.

Matthew 3:3 niv
"This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: "A voice of one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.' "
​

Inadvertently, the pro-gay movement is to the Antichrist, as was John the baptist was to Jesus.

They are just preparing a way for his open acceptance by people of the world. That is one reason why the Church has to be raptured before he can be revealed. Our voice needs to be out of the way so people can feel free to worship the Beast.

Be patient. Over time. The path will be cleared. Its inevitable. Because, the Antichrist is to come.

In Christ, GeneZ​

​

 

[relspace]

Who's talking about hate here? You are.

Why project into what was said, what was not said? I do not hate gays. Nor, do I lovingly approve of what they do. Neither, do I lovingly approve of people committing adultery. But? Does that mean I hate people who commit adultery?

You have to introduce an element into what I said in order to gain leverage over a rare moment of cleverness? Where I come from? That's called a party pooper.

Ok so I confess to being a party pooper. I really don't feel a need for leverage over your cleverness though. I was simply fishing for an admission that your argument does not apply to hate.

"What if God made people to hate a certain kind of people? If it is in their genes we cannot judge them for this hate can we."

Surely you can agree that this statement is not supportable. Can you not simply agree with me that this is not equivalent to the similar justification of homosexuality.

I understand that you think homosexuality is a sin. But that is a religious belief. I understand that you are offended by the idea that God makes some people homosexual. But that too is a religious belief. (I even share this second belief, though I am undecided about the first) Religious tolerance is an ideal worth defending don't you think? Accordingly, is it not more important to condemn hatred than what you may believe is a sin?

 

[stray bullet]

now honestly. let me ask you. does it affect you for two men, down the street from your house, to be married (or in a civil union, whichever is legal in your area...if any)??? now honestly, does it truly bother you.

It attempts to normalize the behavior, which is a problem for society.

 

[cynthiamarie]

their behavior is normal

genez relax, it's not that serious.

 

[relspace]

Inadvertently, the pro-gay movement is to the Antichrist, as was John the baptist was to Jesus.

They are just preparing a way for his open acceptance by people of the world. That is one reason why the Church has to be raptured before he can be revealed. Our voice needs to be out of the way so people can feel free to worship the Beast.

I do not deny the merit of what you are saying. This very possibility has occured to me because the events in California which I spoke of consisted of requiring people to take classes regarding political correctness in this issue and denying licences (required for pursuing their career) to anyone who voices evidence that the genetic basis for homosexuality is not a proven fact (as happened to a friend of mine). This has a spooky similarity to the mark of the Beast doesn't it? But frankly, I would be opposed to any kind thought-police tactic like this.

But..... I do not intend on being fooled by anyone. It seems just as likely to me that, since the AntiChrist is a deceiver, he could try to pass himself off as a born-again Christian (just like Bush is doing). Would not this get him the uncritical support of the Christians, who foolishly think that just because someone professes to be Christian then he must be on the side of goodness and God?

I agree that we could be in the end times. But I do not believe in living for them regardless. I will not disregard the future because it could all be coming to an end. I will not fail to make a stand for the envirionment, for endangered species, for human rights, for the economic improvement of disadvantaged nations, etc...., just because it looks like it all might end soon. It seems to me that this expectation of an end can be a kind of complacency and I would rather be caught by this ending in the act of standing up for what is right.

 

[UnderHisWings4Ever]

Their behavior might be normal, but it is not right. 'Do not conform any longer to the pattern of THIS world.' Should we accept those who are living in sin, as homosexuality most certainly is? Most definitely. Should we tolerate THEM? Absolutely. Should we tolerate the sin and accept the sin? By no means. Jesus accepted all, but never tolerated sin itself, and there is a distinct difference. Just as I will never tell anyone that I agree with adultery or fornication, or murder, or any other sin for that matter, I will never tell anyone that I think homosexuality is okay. But that does not prevent me from loving the man.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

It attempts to normalize the behavior, which is a problem for society.

how is it a problem for society? (this is a serious question. Please explain to me how "normal gays" would cause societal problems)