Why are there so many atheists on a Christian site?

Chris B · May 16, 2015

(Sorry, quotes not behaving as I expected)

Responding to "oi_antz": "Were you a Christian at the time, and did Jesus respond at the time as He said He would? Also, how many times have you heard Him knocking and invited Him in?"

Archaeopteryx said:
Yes, I was a Christian at the time, and yes, I believed that what I felt "in my heart" was a response.

As John Wesley felt his heart "strangely warmed."
But there is the moment, the experience, and there is the interpretation of it.
A range of things can produce a "heart strangely warmed" and only one of the possibilities is the presence of the risen Lord Jesus.
Coolly: that data fits a particular hypothesis is not evidence for the truth of that hypothesis if the data fits alternate hypotheses just as well.

I have encountered the parallel in discussions with Hindus. Those who have had mystical experiences take them to be (summarised horribly) transcendental insight into the non-duality of nature. The hypothesis that the experience might not be transcendental at all is not only not considered, it is not even conceived of.

I've had a range of "heart moments", some of them very powerful. Not all of them with a Christian or even religious setting. What they meant or signified beyond their "happening", that's not a given, unless a particular understanding or framework of world view is held to be trustworthy. And that remains the question.

seeking633 · May 16, 2015

Songsmith said:
I mean, not that I want them gone, but it just seems strange to me that so many atheists would choose to spend their time and eergy on a site that is antithetical to their worldview. The interesting thing to me is that they don't seem to be here to proselytize, which would make sense to me. I assume that they, or many of them anyway, feela sense of community here if they've been here for a while. So, if not to show the poor theist the freedom of atheism, what is the draw?

Read the Scriptures and pray for wisdom, Songsmith. You'll then know that "the human heart is deceitful above all things" (Jeremiah 17:9) a truth which Jesus reminds us again in Mark 7:21 "out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts". And finally by the Apostle Paul; "the carnal mind is enmity against God" (Romans 8:7).

These atheists may be lying to you about their purpose. But even if they are not, they are not governed by obedience to the Lord, so even they will not know what's really in their hearts, and their minds will not heed to wisdom.

Before I turned to Christ, I had been drawn me into a terrible trap, and I did not see it because of the deception Satan has brought into the world. This trap is laid for those who have become unwary of the roaring Lion, which is always looking for someone to devour (1 Peter 5:8). It is a power given to those who reject God, the children of disobedience, who have been deceived by the lure of this age, in it's science, technology, wealth, and comfort. And it is will subdue and enslave those deemed unworthy by these evildoers.

Be cautious of those who reject the Lord and stay close to the only One who can spare you the wrath that is coming.

"Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water, but a man of understanding will draw it out". Proverbs 20:5

Archaeopteryx · May 16, 2015

seeking633 said:
Read the Scriptures and pray for wisdom, Songsmith. You'll then know that "the human heart is deceitful above all things" (Jeremiah 17:9) a truth which Jesus reminds us again in Mark 7:21 "out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts". And finally by the Apostle Paul; "the carnal mind is enmity against God" (Romans 8:7).

These atheists may be lying to you about their purpose.

Three posts in and you're already attributing nefarious motives to other members, the majority of whom you don't even know and haven't interacted with.

But even if they are not, they are not governed by obedience to the Lord, so even they will not know what's really in their hearts, and their minds will not heed to wisdom.

I'm sorry, but I find little wisdom in your religion.

Before I turned to Christ, I had been drawn me into a terrible trap, and I did not see it because of the deception Satan has brought into the world. This trap is laid for those who have become unwary of the roaring Lion, which is always looking for someone to devour (1 Peter 5:8). It is a power given to those who reject God, the children of disobedience, who have been deceived by the lure of this age, in it's science, technology, wealth, and comfort. And it is will subdue and enslave those deemed unworthy by these evildoers.

The irony apparently passed you by when you typed this on your computer, clicked 'Post Reply,' and transmitted it to countless others across the globe.

Colter · May 16, 2015

Archaeopteryx said:
A very nebulous set of conditions. But I'm still confident that I would have satisfied them.

Really? You did all of those things?

Ya-know, prayer isn't dare.

Archaeopteryx · May 16, 2015

Colter said:
Really? You did all of those things?

Ya-know, prayer isn't dare.

Honestly, I can't quite tell. They're so nebulous that I could say either 'yes' or 'no' and it wouldn't mean much at all. I actually think one ought to reject it on principle. Prayer doesn't come with an instruction manual. There's no "right way" to do it. The important thing is to be sincere while doing it. I was sincere, so whether I satisfied your prescribed conditions is of little concern to me, particularly given how vague those conditions are.

As an ex-Christian, one cannot help but feel a certain hostility imbued in these questions. It seems that you and oi_antz and others are seeking to find a personal fault in those who no longer believe so that you can then attribute apostasy to that particular fault. "You didn't pray right," "You weren't really 'all in'," and "You never believed with all your heart, mind, and soul" are common accusations levelled at former Christians. The goal is to depict our deconversion as the consequence of some deep personal flaw so as to avoid considering the possibility that the flaw is actually within the religion we abandoned.

Colter · May 16, 2015

Ana the Ist said:
I think you should get started...

You'd find more success at it than your current endeavor.

But I brought you the Urantia Book for free. Its the most remarkable revelatory work to date. So my work here has not been in vain, I suspect a number of people here had not yet found Big Blue.

Smidlee · May 16, 2015

No doubt when most people get married they get a warm fuzzy feeling down in their heart when they say their vows. What happens when those warm fuzzy feelings are gone will slowly reveal the heart. Time often tells. Faith tried by fire will reveal if it genuine or not .

Colter · May 16, 2015

Archaeopteryx said:
Honestly, I can't quite tell. They're so nebulous that I could say either 'yes' or 'no' and it wouldn't mean much at all. I actually think one ought to reject it on principle. Prayer doesn't come with an instruction manual. There's no "right way" to do it. The important thing is to be sincere while doing it. I was sincere, so whether I satisfied your prescribed conditions is of little concern to me, particularly given how vague those conditions are.

You left faith so your opinions about how to pray seems odd, doing it your way didn't work. Prayer isn't telling God what our will is for him, it's asking what his will is for us. There is a "right way", God is a person to ya-know!

Archaeopteryx · May 16, 2015

Colter said:
You left faith so your opinions about how to pray seem odd, doing it your way didn't work. Prayer isn't telling God what our will is for him, it's asking what his will is for us.

Where did I say that I told God what my will is for him?

Colter · May 16, 2015

Archaeopteryx said:
Where did I say that I told God what my will is for him?

I was mind reading again

Archaeopteryx · May 16, 2015

Smidlee said:
No doubt when most people get married they get a warm fuzzy feeling down in their heart when they say their vows. What happens when those warm fuzzy feelings are gone will slowly reveal the heart. Time often tells. Faith tried by fire will reveal if it genuine or not .

I find the quote in your sig humorous. I think a more apt analogy is the broken clock: it happens to tell the correct time twice a day, but you wouldn't consider it a reliable timekeeper.

jmldn2 · May 16, 2015

KCfromNC said:
Since belief isn't something one can consciously choose, I have no idea who you might be talking about.

Please explain your sentence.

Archaeopteryx · May 16, 2015

Colter said:
I was mind reading again

Which is why I said that I think I satisfied your conditions for effective prayer, with the caveat that it's difficult to tell because those conditions are so nebulous.

Archaeopteryx · May 16, 2015

jmldn2 said:
Please explain your sentence.

He means that belief is not a deliberate choice. We don't choose to be convinced or not convinced; we either are or we aren't. We can choose to investigate. We can choose to examine the evidence or we can even choose to ignore it. But we cannot choose to be convinced of something that we aren't convinced of.

bhsmte · May 16, 2015

CMuskwa said:
In all honesty my back gets up when I hear atheism discussed whether it be on television or social media this forum for example. However I'm thankful that I believe in God , I can't imagine not knowing him or not wanting to deepen my relationship with him. We as Christians know the truth , what is the big deal if not not everyone agrees with us or has a different opinion. Look at the miraculous conversion of Saul on the road to Damascus this gives us the opportunity to share our faith instead of judging .....

Good for you. If you have found something that makes you a better person, than stick with it.

Now, why does your back get up when you here atheism? You also said what's the big deal if not everyone agrees with you and it is a fact, 2/3 of the world's population disagree with Christians. It appears, there are some Christians, that are very taken aback when someone doesn't see things there way, or they used to be a Christian and they later discovered they were wrong about their belief. This is unsettling to them and they need to convince themselves how wrong the person was for leaving Christianity. Why? Likely because it makes them feel better about their own beliefs.

If you feel you know the truth, terrific. But, unless you can objectively demonstrate what the truth is, I wouldn't be shocked if many people don't agree with you.

GrimKingGrim · May 16, 2015

Smidlee said:
No doubt when most people get married they get a warm fuzzy feeling down in their heart when they say their vows. What happens when those warm fuzzy feelings are gone will slowly reveal the heart. Time often tells. Faith tried by fire will reveal if it genuine or not .

Yea something like a religion shouldn't melt away without constant badgering. I find something wrong with that.

Colter said:
You left faith so your opinions about how to pray seems odd, doing it your way didn't work. Prayer isn't telling God what our will is for him, it's asking what his will is for us. There is a "right way", God is a person to ya-know!

There is no wrong way to pray.

bhsmte · May 16, 2015

Colter said:
But I brought you the Urantia Book for free. Its the most remarkable revelatory work to date. So my work here has not been in vain, I suspect a number of people here had not yet found Big Blue.

And I want to thank you, for the entertainment value it provides.

Colter · May 16, 2015

Archaeopteryx said:
Which is why I said that I think I satisfied your conditions for effective prayer, with the caveat that it's difficult to tell because those conditions are so nebulous.

GrimKingGrim said:
Yea something like a religion shouldn't melt away without constant badgering. I find something wrong with that.

There is no wrong way to pray.

“He who turns away his ear from hearing the divine law, even his prayer shall be an abomination.”

Archaeopteryx · May 16, 2015

Colter said:
“He who turns away his ear from hearing the divine law, even his prayer shall be an abomination.”

This is not a confessional for your sins.

Colter · May 16, 2015

bhsmte said:
And I want to thank you, for the entertainment value it provides.

That's his MO.

Why are there so many atheists on a Christian site?

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