Why are there so many atheists on a Christian site?

[muichimotsu]

We are finally getting to the heart of the matter, Atheist have an idea of God but he doesn't live down to it, so they conclude that he does not exist because he wont make exceptions to the accidents of time in a material cosmos.

This mistakenly attributes misotheism to atheists. We're taking your descriptions of God and analyzing them logically. They're found wanting in both consistency and any sense of meaningful ethics related to an all powerful being that supposedly loves us and yet also values free will. The amount of rationalization and compartmentalization theists, particularly of the Abrahamic variety, must go through to posit such a deity is a primary reason apologetics still exists: there's not nearly the amount of ignorance in the world today, so you have to persist through new and creative ways of presenting this "radical" idea to a "fallen" world.

 

[HitchSlap]

No. I'm following just fine, thank you. It is you that is not understanding my point. Christian's define our God as one who is all-powerful and all-loving. That is the God we are talking about and no other. If you argue that that specific God is not compatible with the existence of evil, then you are saying that the God we preach does not exist. So you are making an assertive claim that the God we preach does not exist and are no longer just claiming to hold to a passive "lack of belief".

I'm making an assertive claim that there is no evidence supporting the God you preach exists. If you consider that an active "lack of belief," ok then.

 

[muichimotsu]

If religion is the opiate of the people, it's not the religion of Jesus of Nazereth.

Wasn't Jesus the one who said he was for the weak, the oppressed, those who feel they aren't being heard? Familiar with liberation theology? Ironically came from slaves who used the pretense of religion to note that they shouldn't be slaves to humans, but, at most, slaves to a God that actually values their freedom in a meaningful sense.

 

[muichimotsu]

You can't even prove yourself in words adequate to distinguish yourself from others in a line up, so it's not possible to provide proof of the God we know. We envite you to find him on your own, he lives within you.

You're making a rather audacious claim in terms of proof, not necessarily even understanding the term accurately. Science and philosophy demonstrate through evidence and arguments: math and logic prove in their particular fashions.

By your logic, we're apparently just blind and cannot perceive the inner "God". How does this in any way align with a meaningfully Christian soteriology as opposed to the moksha sought in Hinduism, aligning oneself with the world soul, Brahman? Not in a figurative sense, but a literal monistic assimilation.

 

[muichimotsu]

Is this Christianese?

No it's Urantianese, if I had to hazard a guess

 

[muichimotsu]

No. I'm following just fine, thank you. It is you that is not understanding my point. Christian's define our God as one who is all-powerful and all-loving. That is the God we are talking about and no other. If you argue that that specific God is not compatible with the existence of evil, then you are saying that the God we preach does not exist. So you are making an assertive claim that the God we preach does not exist and are no longer just claiming to hold to a passive "lack of belief".

Even if it's an assertive claim, it's not necessarily made in the absolute sense of belief that you have in asserting God does exist. At most, this is a claim that, by your description, there is an inconsistency in the existence of God with suffering in the world, especially when it is both all powerful and all loving, to say nothing of bringing in all knowing.

The lack of belief is general skepticism, the assertion of nonexistence is in response to unsubstantiated claims of existence

 

[In situ]

the creation of man was ... the very manifestation of God's goodness and wisdom,

Apparently, then God wasn't wise enough to forsee the tragic consequences of what God did, and unwillingly send mankind and all future generations into suffering. Any human engineer doing the same mistake at work wold be fired. I have been wrong. God is not malicious, God is just plain dumb and foolish...

 

[In situ]

I'm not an atheist.

Then the message was not directed towards you, was it?

 

[In situ]

This point in particular is extremely easy to answer.

[wall of text removed]

That was a long way to say that God is foolish...

He loves all of his creation

Such a God made the decides to torture humans for eternity in Hell?

 

[In situ]

They have obviously not listened to God when he is screaming to them to not do what they are planning. Their heart is too hardened to hear Him.

You know that man is capable of killing out of passion, don't you? There is something that is called justified violence. It grants you the right to defend your self and your own life - even others - with whatever means it takes; one even have the right to kill an aggressor if necessary in certain circumstances. To say that a father has harden his heart if he beats up, or even kill, someone he sees tries to rape or murder his daughter is inhuman and show a lack of understanding of how human emotions can affects the human mind. It would only be a hardened heart if such father would be able to stand back and do nothing. We call such person, that do not react emotionally, a psychopath. (Emotions God gave us according to your own beliefs...)

Reality is not as Black&White as you try to present it...

 

[Colter]

That's his MO.

 

[Colter]

Please, don't mention the iron chariots! Nobody will believe God is omnipotent after they read that in the Bible...

The Bible was written by fallible men. The OT dates to the Babylonian captivity period when the enmass editing of the scriptures was carried out. In that age they tended to see God in everything that happened, good and bad. They would explain losses in battle along religious lines.

 

[In situ]

these days to make a record of all the "immature" and incorrect things Christians claim about atheists.

Well I heard from Christian that we are immoral, evil, dishonest, unfaithful, lairs, thiefs, criminals, murders, satanist, sodomists, bestatlic, pedophiles, god haters, believers in God, deniers of God, fools, unwise, idiots, illogical, irrational, stupid, deserves to burn in Hell, blasphemer, corputed, children of Satan, Satans evil doers, infidels, inferior, etc, etc - but they still love us.

 

[Colter]

And yet again, another failure to address the actual question I had. The only thing I saw was goalpost shifting. Anyway....



I apreciat you wrote "some atheist" and did not made it a general rule. However this is somehow negated with you usage of the expression "It's a generality" just before. What did you actually meant to say?



I see, we must ignore reality in order to be able to believe, shall we not?

Why don't you just tell me to hit myself with something hard in the head, then I will be able to start to believe?



I doubt they say that unless they are dumb since we can give example of gods that "allows" similar things to happen (e.g. they might not have the power to prevent it or they simply don't care). In other words nothing says a god cannot be like this. Would you worships a god that could prevent it but did not? I doubt you would. However, what I think these persons actually have an objecting against is the mixing of words such as "Loving" and "God" with "has all the power". These concepts simply does not match well with the reality we live in. Nor does these concept goes well with the mythological character known as God in the Bible.

But what if the god threatens to torture you forever if you don't submit and worship him/her? Would that not change the rules of the game? Maybe then it is better to worship that god for pure egoistical purposes and then make up stories (read: use apologetics) to compensate for the cognitive dissonance it causes to worship a malicious god. Your picture of God may be a Loving god, but there is no way you can convince me that the god you believe in and know as God is the Christian God, i.e. I am saying you are subject to a self-delusion.

We agree on your points about the vast inconsistencies of the cocepts of God found in primitive Christianity. Jesus didn't act that way, and he told his followers not to put the new wine in the old wineskins.

 

[Colter]

I think you, Colter, have decided to come here to try to persuade yourself from the atheistic beliefs deep inside yourself. Deep down, you know there's no god or "spirituality"...so you come here to try to convince atheists as a means of convincing yourself.

I'm actually here to sell girlscoutt cookies but I havnt gotten around to taking orders yet.

 

[In situ]

The Bible was written by fallible men. The OT dates to the Babylonian captivity period when the enmass editing of the scriptures was carried out.

Good to hear you have a balanced view on how the Bible came to be, but not all Christian will agree. Some Christians will even say you are not a true Christan just for saying such thing.

In that age they tended to see God in everything that happened, good and bad.

If so, why is the Bible even relevant to the nature of who God is? (As a side remark, a majority of American Christian, today, tend to see the very same things. In that respect I really don't see a difference in the behavior of bronze age people and modern people).

 

[In situ]

We agree on your points about the vast inconsistencies of the cocepts of God found in primitive Christianity.

My point was not about the beliefs of bronze age people, but current modern belief of present living Christians. You seams to ignore the fact that my example with iron chariot was just an exmaple to highlight what it means to be inconsistent.

Jesus didn't act that way, and he told his followers not to put the new wine in the old wineskins.

I don't care where Christian prefer to store their wine. The issue is if the Christian God is all-powerful or not, and how such notion of God fits in with modern Christians beliefs. For instance do you require that God must be logical self-consistent and if so why?

 

[In situ]

As someone else said...that precious one makes it all worth it...

And what do you think will happen with the people which do not believe after they die?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm actually here to sell girlscoutt cookies but I havnt gotten around to taking orders yet.

I think you should get started...

You'd find more success at it than your current endeavor.

 

[CMuskwa]

In all honesty my back gets up when I hear atheism discussed whether it be on television or social media this forum for example. However I'm thankful that I believe in God , I can't imagine not knowing him or not wanting to deepen my relationship with him. We as Christians know the truth , what is the big deal if not not everyone agrees with us or has a different opinion. Look at the miraculous conversion of Saul on the road to Damascus this gives us the opportunity to share our faith instead of judging .....