Why are there so many atheists on a Christian site?

[oi_antz]

I'm sorry, I was raised Roman Catholic and don't always understand the more flowery Christian rhetoric. Not an insult at all, but I'm not sure what you're asking. I was a Christian.

Have you made friends with Jesus before or at least accepted His invitation to make acquaintance, or was your faith all about feeling satisfied of your eternal wellbeing according to a respected advocate?

 

[oi_antz]

Except, it isn't God making any claims, it is nameless, ancient men and the credulous who follow their claims. I've never heard God speak. I've never felt any kind of supernatural or divine presence. I only hear laymen talking about things that either happened 20 centuries ago or will happen after I die.

Do you suggest they have been dishonest or deluded instead of true and correct? If so, why?

 

[Joshua260]

Let me get this straight: Because Group A has chosen to construct a certain view of a deity, the burden of proof is on Group B to disprove their ideas or else lose the right to disagree? Does Group A have any evidence that makes it worth Group B's while?

You misunderstand. If one does not claim that the problem of evil is a valid argument, then thy are not making an assertive claim and are thus not required to provide evidence to support a claim that they did not make (that the Christian God does not exist). The point is that one cannot simply claim to have a "lack of belief" while at the same time arguing that the problem of evil argument is valid.

 

[bhsmte]

Do you suggest they have been dishonest or deluded instead of true and correct? If so, why?

Could be as simple as he doesn't feel the claims are credible. People can be motivated to believe false things for all sorts of reasons.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Do you suggest they have been dishonest or deluded instead of true and correct? If so, why?

The people who made up the claims or the people who believe them?

The people who made the claim that the universe was created by an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful entity that then couldn't fix his mess until he commits himself to human sacrifice most likely made that up. The people who believe it are deluded by superstition.

 

[Cearbhall]

Have you made friends with Jesus before or at least accepted His invitation to make acquaintance, or was your faith all about feeling satisfied of your eternal wellbeing according to a respected advocate?

Yeah, this is the kind of stuff for which I don't have an answer. This is not my type of (former) Christianity. I was Christian. I believed and was well educated in Catholicism. In a metaphoric sense, yes, I did the former of the two options that you gave.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Yeah, this is the kind of stuff for which I don't have an answer. This is not my type of (former) Christianity. I was Christian. I believed and was well educated in Catholicism.

Here's where some might say that you were never a "real Christian." I've never been a Christian so I'm not sure what that's like but I imagine it doesn't feel too good to be told that.

 

[Cearbhall]

You misunderstand. If one does not claim that the problem of evil is a valid argument, then thy are not making an assertive claim and are thus not required to provide evidence to support a claim that they did not make (that the Christian God does not exist). The point is that one cannot simply claim to have a "lack of belief" while at the same time arguing that the problem of evil argument is valid.

Ah. Got it. That is different, though I'm still not sure I agree, since many atheists use the problem of evil as a catch-all (as in, they wouldn't believe even if this particular contradiction hadn't occurred to them). In which case, it's an assertive claim about a hypothetical situation rather than an actual piece of evidence.

 

[oi_antz]

Could be as simple as he doesn't feel the claims are credible. People can be motivated to believe false things for all sorts of reasons.

What other reasons do you know of? I only know those three.

 

[bhsmte]

What other reasons do you know of? I only know those three.

Three what?

 

[oi_antz]

The people who made up the claims or the people who believe them?

The people who made the claim that the universe was created by an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful entity that then couldn't fix his mess until he commits himself to human sacrifice most likely made that up. The people who believe it are deluded by superstition.

You were saying the ones who wrote and got recorded in the bible were laymen and you could not accept that their claims to experience with God, and God's message at least by that proxy is a genuine claim by God. So I guessed you must think their statements were wrong, and either they could be deliberately dishonest or they could be mistaken. That is what I was asking. But you have added something new here too which should be addressed some time: substitutionary atonement doctrine. I am actually learning about that doctrine presently, and found that it has only been developed over the last 1,000 years and does not appear to be derived from the bible, but formed as a solution to a doctrinal problem and subsequently supported by biblical quotes.

 

[oi_antz]

Yeah, this is the kind of stuff for which I don't have an answer. This is not my type of (former) Christianity. I was Christian. I believed and was well educated in Catholicism. In a metaphoric sense, yes, I did the former of the two options that you gave.

So did you ask Jesus to go away? How did you break up with Him?

 

[oi_antz]

Three what?

Either the authors were true and correct, or they lied, or they were mistaken (deluded). You said there could be other reasons that their claims were not credible. I don't know of any other reasons yet, do you?

 

[Colter]

I would rather say it happens more from people reading the bible as they understand or misunderstand Him.

The God of the Old Testament is mostly a shadow of the men who wrote and rewrote about him. Truth seekers find it difficult to get beyond that.

 

[bhsmte]

Either the authors were true and correct, or they lied, or they were mistaken (deluded). You said there could be other reasons that their claims were not credible. I don't know of any other reasons yet, do you?

What I was stating, was the credibility of what they wrote and how that is verified.

Do you always believe everything everyone says or writes, especially if they make incredible claims? Or, would you be somewhat curious, as to what they were claiming was true?

 

[Cearbhall]

So did you ask Jesus to go away? How did you break up with Him?

I didn't...? As I grew up and gained access to a breadth of objective and contradictory information, I came to the conclusion that he was not divine.

It would seem that the process of Catholic --> agnostic/atheist is very different from Evangelical --> agnostic/atheist. I feel it would be condescending to suggest that Catholicism is more intellectual, but that's the difference that is most observable to me here. My change of opinion was not the result of some spiritual upheaval.

 

[Colter]

I didn't? As I grew up and gained access to a breadth of objective and contradictory information, I came to the conclusion that he was not divine.

It would seem that the process of Catholic --> agnostic/atheist is very different from Evangelical --> agnostic/atheist. I feel it would be condescending to suggest that Catholicism is more intellectual, but that's the difference that is most observable to me here. My change of opinion was not the result of some spiritual upheaval.

The Catholic Church has become the great obstacle to faith in Christ, they seem to create more anti religious than pro.

 

[oi_antz]

I didn't...? As I grew up and gained access to a breadth of objective and contradictory information, I came to the conclusion that he was not divine.

It would seem that the process of Catholic --> agnostic/atheist is very different from Evangelical --> agnostic/atheist. I feel it would be condescending to suggest that Catholicism is more intellectual, but that's the difference that is most observable to me here. My change of opinion was not the result of some spiritual upheaval.

So why didn't you discuss it with Him?

 

[bhsmte]

Have you made friends with Jesus before or at least accepted His invitation to make acquaintance, or was your faith all about feeling satisfied of your eternal wellbeing according to a respected advocate?

Did you make friends with Santa Claus when you were younger? I bet you sent him letters.

 

[bhsmte]

So why didn't you discuss it with Him?

How do you discuss things with Jesus?