Why are there so few power miracles anymore?

[ByTheSpirit]

So a dear fellow poster here has mentioned this lately and it is something worth discussing.

When Jesus and even the Apostles ministered healings and cast out demons, they just spoke... Leave them, stand up, be healed... and it happened.

Healings do take place still, I know this, but it seems that such healings are overwhelmingly done as a result of hours of prayer etc.

I'm curious if anyone would like to chime in on why there such a difference in approach to healings now. Is it maybe because we are afraid if we tell a lame person to stand up and walk and they don't we'll look like fools? Does faith need to be built for such acts of ministry or does the Holy Spirit just say go and do?

I've known some healing ministers who teach that starting out in healing you will fail many many times and only through perseverance will healings come. I know in the Gospels the disciples are recorded as failing on occassion and it's because of their lack of faith or that they need to pray and fast more. But after Pentecost you don't see any more failings and Peter's shadow will heal and Paul's touch will bless napkins.

What is the disconnect?

 

[Neogaia777]

I have wondered about this also...?

Did they have less doubts than us back then...?

But then again, it's not supposed to be because of their faith, right, but God either doing it or not doing it, correct...?

So, did God do or allow it more only back then more, because He needed the message to get out the way it needed to get out or spread back then, but is maybe not as necessary now, so it happens less now, etc...?

Does God want it to be more discreet maybe, etc...? And that is maybe why it doesn't happen as much, or in as much of a much more obvious or directly observable (or recordable) way now, etc...?

I don't know...? But I think a lot about it, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Is it due to a lack of accurate knowledge...?

Because that is another one I have wondered about, etc...?

Lot's of questions, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Is it due to a lack of accurate knowledge...?

Because that is another one I have wondered about, etc...?

Lot's of questions, etc...?

God Bless!

All good and valid questions. It seems on face value that God may indeed have some purpose.

Look at the history of Christianity back to Judaism. Moses comes and is the first to perform power signs. Followed by a relative quietness, except for a couple judges (1 Sam 3:1).

Then as kings began to be a thing in Israel the prophets emerged and signs began to return as well. The last of the prophets died out around 500BC and so too it seems the Lord speaking to men in such ways. Until the time for Jesus to come.

Then Jesus comes with John the Baptist, the Apostles on the day of Pentecost and by all accounts continued for some time with relative frequency (probably around 300 ad). This gives cessationists a valid argument. But I wonder if it is because that's what God wants or if it's just that people have stopped seeking.

Some say individuals like Smith Wiggles worth and such did power signs. I am in no position to say they did or didn't. What's clear is if they did, that anointing wasn't passed on apparently.

Now we have the same Spirit the Apostles had. The manifestations of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12-14) are still possible in this age. I think it's due to a couple things at least:

1) as the church got away from the Apostles, their teachings and practice died out leasing the importance of walking in the Spirit.

2) man is afraid of God. Men like to control things. Not allowing or permitting the Spirit to move is convenient. The Spirit often challenges status quos and that's not acceptable in a church where structure is demanded. It's much easier to say it's the Pastors job to lead rather than asking the Spirit to dictate.

Just my ideas though.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What is the disconnect?

The quality of faith. The amount doesn't matter, just the quality. There's a particular quality of trust or faith that is generally missing today compared to previous eras.

You could say as more time passes, mankind has a bigger and bigger trust issue as a whole?

Also, in general, the area where Jesus could do hardly anything was his hometown. However, now it's like the whole world has become like the hometown.

So an individual can have faith, but the overall environment of expectation or expectancy has dropped significantly. So this angle also affects it.

 

[martymonster]

There are still miracles... they're just spiritual, not physical. The physical healings that Christ and the other performed, were only shadows.

 

[Neogaia777]

All good and valid questions. It seems on face value that God may indeed have some purpose.

Look at the history of Christianity back to Judaism. Moses comes and is the first to perform power signs. Followed by a relative quietness, except for a couple judges (1 Sam 3:1).

Then as kings began to be a thing in Israel the prophets emerged and signs began to return as well. The last of the prophets died out around 500BC and so too it seems the Lord speaking to men in such ways. Until the time for Jesus to come.

Then Jesus comes with John the Baptist, the Apostles on the day of Pentecost and by all accounts continued for some time with relative frequency (probably around 300 ad). This gives cessationists a valid argument. But I wonder if it is because that's what God wants or if it's just that people have stopped seeking.

Some say individuals like Smith Wiggles worth and such did power signs. I am in no position to say they did or didn't. What's clear is if they did, that anointing wasn't passed on apparently.

Now we have the same Spirit the Apostles had. The manifestations of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12-14) are still possible in this age. I think it's due to a couple things at least:

1) as the church got away from the Apostles, their teachings and practice died out leasing the importance of walking in the Spirit.

2) man is afraid of God. Men like to control things. Not allowing or permitting the Spirit to move is convenient. The Spirit often challenges status quos and that's not acceptable in a church where structure is demanded. It's much easier to say it's the Pastors job to lead rather than asking the Spirit to dictate.

Just my ideas though.

All good points...

Don't know if any of us will truly be able to do any of it though until we truly know if God is still truly willing or not first though, and then there would have to be true genuine relationship with that Spirit, and I believe knowledge of that same Spirit after that or maybe with that also maybe, and also walking in it also, and I don't know if we have a lot of that today, etc, like you said, even churches and church people tend to sometimes reject it in favor of their favorite pastors/preachers/teachers, etc, then there is some genuine fear and doubt, etc, but fearand doubt that should not come if you are truly walking in that Spirit, etc...

But, we got to find out God's will in it first and foremost, etc...? You know how a lot of people say "seeing is believing", etc...? Well, the Bible seems to say that faith is much more valuable to God if you "believe without seeing", etc, or without having to see, etc, but I don't think this is talking about knowledge however, etc, but could pertain to miracles, etc, and that maybe faith that comes by witnessing miracles is not as valuable to God as faith that does not, or did not have to maybe, etc, and that the true purpose of miracles might be for the message sake, more than it is getting other people to have faith maybe...?

Don't know...?

But if knowledge is starting to cease, or maybe some new knowledge/message comes to the fore, God might start doing some miracles again maybe, I don't know...? Or He might start doing it again for the sake of a certain message and/or certain knowledge/revelation again, don't know...? But I don't know if it's primarily for the purpose of increasing faith though...? But then again, I don't know, so...?

Anyway, just some of my thoughts...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The quality of faith. The amount doesn't matter, just the quality. There's a particular quality of trust or faith that is generally missing today compared to previous eras.

You could say as more time passes, mankind has a bigger and bigger trust issue as a whole?

Also, in general, the area where Jesus could do hardly anything was his hometown. However, now it's like the whole world has become like the hometown.

So an individual can have faith, but the overall environment of expectation or expectancy has dropped significantly. So this angle also affects it.

I would think that God would have to be able to trust you as well maybe, etc...?

To not turn around and become apostate or antichrist after He had already trusted you with that kind of power and/or ability also, etc...?

Because that could be possible, or might be a possibility maybe, etc...?

And you can bet that if God gave you "that", that Satan would then be right there tempting you just like he tempted Jesus also, etc...

So God might have to be able to trust you with that maybe, etc...

Maybe even might have to test you first in other things or ways first to see if you can handle it first maybe, etc...?

I don't know, etc...?

Just some of my thoughts, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I would think that God would have to be able to trust you as well maybe, etc...?

To not turn around and become apostate or antichrist after He had already trusted you with that kind of power and/or ability also, etc...?

Because that could be possible, or might be a possibility maybe, etc...?

And you can bet that if God gave you "that", that Satan would then be right there tempting you just like he tempted Jesus, etc...

So God might have to be able to trust you with that maybe, etc...

Maybe even might have to test you first in other things or ways maybe to see if you can handle it first maybe, etc...?

I Don't know, etc...?

God Bless!

Self doubt has been an issue since James penned his letter at the beginning of the Church. It says if someone doubts they will receive, do not let them think they will get anything they ask in prayer.

So trusting God entrusted you with the responsibility and privilege to make particular requests, is part of the psychology of it for sure.

 

[Neogaia777]

I would think that God would have to be able to trust you as well maybe, etc...?

To not turn around and become apostate or antichrist after He had already trusted you with that kind of power and/or ability also, etc...?

Because that could be possible, or might be a possibility maybe, etc...?

And you can bet that if God gave you "that", that Satan would then be right there tempting you just like he tempted Jesus also, etc...

So God might have to be able to trust you with that maybe, etc...

Maybe even might have to test you first in other things or ways first to see if you can handle it first maybe, etc...?

I don't know, etc...?

Just some of my thoughts, etc...

God Bless!

You'd have to have a pretty good knowledge of what was allowed or permissible, and what was not allowed or permissible with that kind of power and/or ability just like Jesus did, etc, or you could become apostate if you don't, or if you maybe "won't", etc... (won't adhere to those rules or choose to break them at some point, etc)...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Self doubt has been an issue since James penned his letter at the beginning of the Church. It says if someone doubts they will receive, do not let them think they will get anything they ask in prayer.

So trusting God entrusted you with the responsibility and privilege to make particular requests, is part of the psychology of it for sure.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, eh...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Self doubt has been an issue since James penned his letter at the beginning of the Church. It says if someone doubts they will receive, do not let them think they will get anything they ask in prayer.

So trusting God entrusted you with the responsibility and privilege to make particular requests, is part of the psychology of it for sure.

I think I would be asking Him not to ever trust me with any more ever, than I can truly be trusted with, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think I would be asking Him not to ever trust me with any more ever, than I can truly be trusted with, etc...?

God Bless!

I think the King wants to you to know just how much He trusts you to act in confidence. He knows you can do it, whatever that might be, you were created for that purpose.

 

[Neogaia777]

I think the King wants to you to know just how much He trusts you to act in confidence. He knows you can do it, whatever that might be, you were created for that purpose.

Thank you man, we still have a lot of work to do with me still though I think, etc...?

"In time", etc...

But, thank you man.

God Bless!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I am reminded of the experience of Job, when he lost all his possessions, his family, and then his health. His three friends had all kinds of theories about why all this had happened to him. They told him it was basically his own fault, that he had sinned in some way. The fact is, that we know right from the start, that it was not Job's fault at all, but something that came out of a discussion between God and Satan.

In all these posts over the years, there have been many theories about why we don't have power miracles. Mostly it is people saying that we don't believe hard enough, or that we have unconfessed sin, or that the power gifts have ceased, etc and so on.

In actual fact, it may have nothing to do with us at all. It may be that God, being sovereign, deciding when and where He exercises His miraculous power, doesn't do it on demand just because people come up with formulae and quote Scripture.

It is interesting that Jesus performed many miracles during His ministry in Judaea, yet the people in general didn't believe Him or His message and had Him crucified. This shows that miracles don't necessarily mean people will believe the message.

Maybe the emphasis should be on preaching the Gospel, showing that Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross to take our sins upon Himself and that He rose from the dead to promise the same resurrection for those who believe the Gospel and have faith in Him.

Having miracles happen or don't happen doesn't make the difference between heaven and hell for people, but believing or not believing the Gospel of Christ does.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Thank you man, we still have a lot of work to do with me still though I think, etc...?

"In time", etc...

But, thank you man.

God Bless!

God bless you also I appreciate the friendly discussion.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Having miracles happen or don't happen doesn't make the difference between heaven and hell for people, but believing or not believing the Gospel of Christ does.

in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God, so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. (Romans 15:9)

Apparently it does, if the gospel isn't "fully preached" then it might not be so believable.

 

[Neogaia777]

I am reminded of the experience of Job, when he lost all his possessions, his family, and then his health. His three friends had all kinds of theories about why all this had happened to him. They told him it was basically his own fault, that he had sinned in some way. The fact is, that we know right from the start, that it was not Job's fault at all, but something that came out of a discussion between God and Satan.

In all these posts over the years, there have been many theories about why we don't have power miracles. Mostly it is people saying that we don't believe hard enough, or that we have unconfessed sin, or that the power gifts have ceased, etc and so on.

In actual fact, it may have nothing to do with us at all. It may be that God, being sovereign, deciding when and where He exercises His miraculous power, doesn't do it on demand just because people come up with formulae and quote Scripture.

It is interesting that Jesus performed many miracles during His ministry in Judaea, yet the people in general didn't believe Him or His message and had Him crucified. This shows that miracles don't necessarily mean people will believe the message.

Maybe the emphasis should be on preaching the Gospel, showing that Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross to take our sins upon Himself and that He rose from the dead to promise the same resurrection for those who believe the Gospel and have faith in Him.

Having miracles happen or don't happen doesn't make the difference between heaven and hell for people, but believing or not believing the Gospel of Christ does.

God's will in the matter definitely has to be discerned first, thank you for the sober reminder my friend...

God Bless!

 

[GTW27]

So a dear fellow poster here has mentioned this lately and it is something worth discussing.

When Jesus and even the Apostles ministered healings and cast out demons, they just spoke... Leave them, stand up, be healed... and it happened.

Healings do take place still, I know this, but it seems that such healings are overwhelmingly done as a result of hours of prayer etc.

I'm curious if anyone would like to chime in on why there such a difference in approach to healings now. Is it maybe because we are afraid if we tell a lame person to stand up and walk and they don't we'll look like fools? Does faith need to be built for such acts of ministry or does the Holy Spirit just say go and do?

I've known some healing ministers who teach that starting out in healing you will fail many many times and only through perseverance will healings come. I know in the Gospels the disciples are recorded as failing on occassion and it's because of their lack of faith or that they need to pray and fast more. But after Pentecost you don't see any more failings and Peter's shadow will heal and Paul's touch will bless napkins.

What is the disconnect?

And when I return will I find faith on earth?

 

[Guojing]

So a dear fellow poster here has mentioned this lately and it is something worth discussing.

When Jesus and even the Apostles ministered healings and cast out demons, they just spoke... Leave them, stand up, be healed... and it happened.

Healings do take place still, I know this, but it seems that such healings are overwhelmingly done as a result of hours of prayer etc.

I'm curious if anyone would like to chime in on why there such a difference in approach to healings now. Is it maybe because we are afraid if we tell a lame person to stand up and walk and they don't we'll look like fools? Does faith need to be built for such acts of ministry or does the Holy Spirit just say go and do?

I've known some healing ministers who teach that starting out in healing you will fail many many times and only through perseverance will healings come. I know in the Gospels the disciples are recorded as failing on occassion and it's because of their lack of faith or that they need to pray and fast more. But after Pentecost you don't see any more failings and Peter's shadow will heal and Paul's touch will bless napkins.

What is the disconnect?

If you look at Revelation 11, those power miracles will be making a comeback during the Tribulation.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.