Why are there so few power miracles anymore?

[Guojing]

More like trying to determine if or not he thinks a sinful person who is still sinful can still be saved if they still sin at all, or whether or not they have to be absolutely perfect, etc...

God Bless!

I think if people are willing to stick to preaching no other doctrine, other than the one preached by the apostle Paul, answers to these questions can be easily given.

For example, the answer to your question is found in Romans 5:12-19. It is not our individual sins, but rather the sinful nature we inherit from Adam, that resulted in our separation from God.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

What is the disconnect?

Time and the fact that society has been brainwashed to believe that miracles no longer actually exist and that everything must follow science. It is so much harder in today's society to have faith in the power of God. Sure, it's a great thing to think about, however when one grows up in school that says there is no God, the universe is billions of years old, they are taught that God did absolutely nothing...when one grows up in a church that teaches that miracles stopped when John wrote the "Amen" in Revelation and are taught to not listen to anything that is outside of the Bible and only listen to what their Pastor and the Bible teaches, having faith that God can heal them instantaneously if only they believe is impossible because they believe that God does not work miracles anymore.

However, if one were to read what the Bible says, the precedence it places on healing and miracles, and then also read what early church fathers like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Novatian taught regarding miracles and the Holy Spirit, they would see that none of the early church fathers believed that the gifts stopped until Augustine and John Chrysostom started teaching those lies about 400 years after Revelation was written.

I've said this in another thread, but Jesus says so much in a few simple words about exorcism and deliverance. He states in Matthew 12:43-45 that when one is delivered that they need to fill themselves with the things of God or else the demon will come back with more demons and the person will be worse off than before. When one goes through deliverance, they should rededicate themselves to God, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and spend time filling themselves with the wisdom of God, be that Bible reading and the like, Godly counseling, mentorship, discipleship, things like that.

Deliverance is not, nor has it ever been a one prayer kinda thing, and then they're done. It's always been meant to be a lifelong journey to not only be delivered but stay delivered by living a life pleasing to God and being filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Time and the fact that society has been brainwashed to believe that miracles no longer actually exist and that everything must follow science. It is so much harder in today's society to have faith in the power of God. Sure, it's a great thing to think about, however when one grows up in school that says there is no God, the universe is billions of years old, they are taught that God did absolutely nothing...when one grows up in a church that teaches that miracles stopped when John wrote the "Amen" in Revelation and are taught to not listen to anything that is outside of the Bible and only listen to what their Pastor and the Bible teaches, having faith that God can heal them instantaneously if only they believe is impossible because they believe that God does not work miracles anymore.

However, if one were to read what the Bible says, the precedence it places on healing and miracles, and then also read what early church fathers like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Novatian taught regarding miracles and the Holy Spirit, they would see that none of the early church fathers believed that the gifts stopped until Augustine and John Chrysostom started teaching those lies about 400 years after Revelation was written.

I've said this in another thread, but Jesus says so much in a few simple words about exorcism and deliverance. He states in Matthew 12:43-45 that when one is delivered that they need to fill themselves with the things of God or else the demon will come back with more demons and the person will be worse off than before. When one goes through deliverance, they should rededicate themselves to God, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and spend time filling themselves with the wisdom of God, be that Bible reading and the like, Godly counseling, mentorship, discipleship, things like that.

Deliverance is not, nor has it ever been a one prayer kinda thing, and then they're done. It's always been meant to be a lifelong journey to not only be delivered but stay delivered by living a life pleasing to God and being filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

More like trying to determine if or not he thinks a sinful person who is still sinful can still be saved if they still sin at all, or whether or not they have to be absolutely perfect, etc...

God Bless!

For the record, I do not believe in OSAS. But this OP isn't about that, and I'm trying to keep the OP on the topic at hand, if we want to continue this discussion we should start a new thread, but just to satisfy the requests.

The passages I quoted do not support the idea that one single sin automatically disqualifies anyone from the Kingdom of God after they have repented. But what scriptures do state is that if a person should fall back into their former self: to just grow cold to their condition, that it's either not worth the effort to fight sin because sin is just a normal part of life, or there is just nothing else I can do because "I'm just a sinner." that shows a heart that is not right before God.

This is why I fight rather vigorously against the narrative I hear in churches that "I'm just a sinner" because it normalizes what God hates. If God hates something, we all should hate it. Not just accept it. Not just abide with it, because we can do nothing else.

If God says to you, go and do something. Does He send you without also equipping you? Does He give us a task without empowering us for the task?

So if God says "Go and sin no more." or "Be holy for I AM holy." does He then fail to uphold His end of the deal by not enabling us to do so? No. God. Is. Faithful. (1 Corinthians 10:13 ESV No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.)

The whole of our life in Christ is absolutely, positively, exclusively dependent upon our faith in Him to fulfill his promises. If we do not have faith that he can keep us from sin, then what do we have faith in? Sin has no place in the Kingdom of God, none.

If you are struggling with sin, pray about it. Fast over it. God has already given you and all who believe victory over sin through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Sin died at the cross. Your belief in Jesus connects you to that sacrifice. Your sins, and your flesh, were nailed to that cross with Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-15)

As long as you are fighting it, I do not believe God will cast you off. 1 John 2:1 says we should not sin, BUT IF WE DO we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus. But once a person just accepts sin because they can do nothing else but, then that person is in real danger. Real. Danger. There can be no compromise with our enemy, absolutely none.

Now this still has relevance to my OP (even though I'd like to continue this specific discussion in another thread please). Because if the church cannot believe that God will keep them from sin, then how can we believe that God will perform miracles and signs and wonders?

1 John 3:8 ESV The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 4:4 ESV you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

 

[jiminpa]

Time and the fact that society has been brainwashed to believe that miracles no longer actually exist and that everything must follow science. It is so much harder in today's society to have faith in the power of God. Sure, it's a great thing to think about, however when one grows up in school that says there is no God, the universe is billions of years old, they are taught that God did absolutely nothing...when one grows up in a church that teaches that miracles stopped when John wrote the "Amen" in Revelation and are taught to not listen to anything that is outside of the Bible and only listen to what their Pastor and the Bible teaches, having faith that God can heal them instantaneously if only they believe is impossible because they believe that God does not work miracles anymore.

Except that, that teaching and everything else that makes a cessationist a cessationist is outside the Bible. They claim to believe that what's in the Bible is sufficient, but if they really believed it they would believe what the Bible says. They determined, by extra-biblical revaluation, that extra-biblical revelation ceased. Somehow, that became the orthodoxy.

It's interesting that you, intentionally or not, bundle the church's unbelief in with the world's unbelief. I think you have a point.

I think I can go back to my point in another thread, it was the highest level Bible scholars who led the chants of, "crucify!," and and a bunch of uneducated, homeschooled, tradesmen that God chose to lead the post-resurrection church into truth.

 

[Neogaia777]

For the record, I do not believe in OSAS. But this OP isn't about that, and I'm trying to keep the OP on the topic at hand, if we want to continue this discussion we should start a new thread, but just to satisfy the requests.

The passages I quoted do not support the idea that one single sin automatically disqualifies anyone from the Kingdom of God after they have repented. But what scriptures do state is that if a person should fall back into their former self: to just grow cold to their condition, that it's either not worth the effort to fight sin because sin is just a normal part of life, or there is just nothing else I can do because "I'm just a sinner." that shows a heart that is not right before God.

This is why I fight rather vigorously against the narrative I hear in churches that "I'm just a sinner" because it normalizes what God hates. If God hates something, we all should hate it. Not just accept it. Not just abide with it, because we can do nothing else.

If God says to you, go and do something. Does He send you without also equipping you? Does He give us a task without empowering us for the task?

So if God says "Go and sin no more." or "Be holy for I AM holy." does He then fail to uphold His end of the deal by not enabling us to do so? No. God. Is. Faithful. (1 Corinthians 10:13 ESV No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.)

The whole of our life in Christ is absolutely, positively, exclusively dependent upon our faith in Him to fulfill his promises. If we do not have faith that he can keep us from sin, then what do we have faith in? Sin has no place in the Kingdom of God, none.

If you are struggling with sin, pray about it. Fast over it. God has already given you and all who believe victory over sin through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Sin died at the cross. Your belief in Jesus connects you to that sacrifice. Your sins, and your flesh, were nailed to that cross with Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-15)

As long as you are fighting it, I do not believe God will cast you off. 1 John 2:1 says we should not sin, BUT IF WE DO we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus. But once a person just accepts sin because they can do nothing else but, then that person is in real danger. Real. Danger. There can be no compromise with our enemy, absolutely none.

Now this still has relevance to my OP (even though I'd like to continue this specific discussion in another thread please). Because if the church cannot believe that God will keep them from sin, then how can we believe that God will perform miracles and signs and wonders?

1 John 3:8 ESV The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 4:4 ESV you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

Well, I'm not one to just give up or stop in the fight against sin, but maybe your right in that maybe we should get back to addressing the OP, as we have derailed it quite a bit...

God Bless!

 

[Guojing]

Well, I'm not one to just give up or stop in the fight against sin, but maybe your right in that maybe we should get back to addressing the OP, as we have derailed it quite a bit...

God Bless!

The TS's point is simply this "Because we are no longer preaching the correct gospel, there is therefore fewer power miracles happening now".

So both of us were trying to clarify from the TS, what exactly does he consider to be the correct gospel.

From what I understand from his replies, he seems to be linking obedience to God's commands and repentance from sin as the correct gospel.

How can we believe God for miracles when we can't even believe that He can keep us from sin? How can we expect power when we don't expect obedience?

Jesus said those who sin are slaves to sin and a slave has no place in the family, but whom the Son sets free shall be free indeed! John 8:34-36

Nothing about repenting, nothing about baptism, nothing about taking up our armor and contending for the faith. Nothing about working out our salvation with fear and trembling. Nothing about abiding in Christ by faith and trusting him to keep us from sin. We make Jesus Lord with our tongues but our hearts are far from him. We talk a good talk, but no walking the walk.

The gospel message tells people that they have fallen, they aren't good enough, destined to die. That's why it's not popular. People don't like being told they aren't good enough and never will be. That God has condemned them in their current state. They need to change and be washed clean. Of course God made a way for salvation, only if we obey Him. How can He give His power to those who can't walk in simple obedience?

Thus, he is implying that we will see more power miracles happening, if there was more obedience and repentance in the Body of Christ.

That is how the OP is being addressed. =)

 

[Neogaia777]

The TS's point is simply this "Because we are no longer preaching the correct gospel, there is therefore fewer power miracles happening now".

So both of us were trying to clarify from the TS, what exactly does he consider to be the correct gospel.

From what I understand from his replies, he seems to be linking obedience to God's commands and repentance from sin as the correct gospel.

Thus, he is implying that will see more power miracles happening, if there was more obedience and repentance in the Body of Christ.

That is how the OP is being addressed. =)

What is your take on it...?

God Bless!

 

[Guojing]

What is your take on it...?

God Bless!

My take is found in the early posts of this thread here, which you have also interacted with me

Why are there so few power miracles anymore?

 

[Neogaia777]

Have you encountered any unbelieving friends of yours with the request that you show them signs, before they will believe?

Sorry @Guojing, I must have missed this one...

No direct requests thus far, but I still don't know if it would be appropriate if there are, or if there were, or if they did, etc, part of why I said I don't know that I'm fully there yet, or am fully ready yet, to even make an attempt yet, etc, I feel I need to know a lot more about it first, etc...

But, is it your view that these things no longer happen, and no one can do them anymore, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Guojing]

Sorry @Guojing, I must have missed this one...

No direct requests thus far, but I still don't know if it would be appropriate if there are, or if there were, or if they did, etc, part of why I said I don't know that I'm fully there yet, or am fully ready yet, to even make an attempt yet, etc, I feel I need to know a lot more about it first, etc...

But, is it your view that these things no longer happen, and no one can do them anymore, etc...?

God Bless!

Miracles will still continue to happen, but there will be no more signs until the Tribulation begins, when God deals with the nation of Israel.

 

[Neogaia777]

The TS's point is simply this "Because we are no longer preaching the correct gospel, there is therefore fewer power miracles happening now".

So both of us were trying to clarify from the TS, what exactly does he consider to be the correct gospel.

From what I understand from his replies, he seems to be linking obedience to God's commands and repentance from sin as the correct gospel.



Thus, he is implying that we will see more power miracles happening, if there was more obedience and repentance in the Body of Christ.

That is how the OP is being addressed. =)

Yeah, it kind of sounds like another law and works gospel to me...?

We should seek to repent and obey though, but there is also the gospel of just only believing also, etc, and then putting your faith and/or trust in God after that also as an already done and finished and completed work also, etc...?

Where do you think the middle ground is, if there is one, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Miracles will still continue to happen, but there will be no more signs until the Tribulation begins, when God deals with the nation of Israel.

How will we know do you think...?

Does that mean we either can or should be attempting them then...?

Should we have to wait until then, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Guojing]

How will we know do you think...?

Does that mean we either can or should be attempting them then...?

God Bless!

During this time, we follow the advice given by the Apostle Paul in our prayers Philippians 4:6-7

6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Everything, by prayer and supplication and with thanksgiving, let your "requests" be known to God.

If that is not enough, Paul gave the same advice to us in 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

16 Rejoice evermore.

17 Pray without ceasing.

18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

 

[Neogaia777]

During this time, we follow the advice given by the Apostle Paul in our prayers Philippians 4:6-7

6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Everything, by prayer and supplication and with thanksgiving, let your "requests" be known to God.

If that is not enough, Paul gave the same advice to us in 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

16 Rejoice evermore.

17 Pray without ceasing.

18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

What if you are confronted with a certain situation or circumstance that you feel might have been prearranged or set-up where you are being tempted to a very much exceeding degree to try and do something miraculous or supernatural about something or for someone...?

What do you do then, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Guojing]

What if you are confronted with a certain situation or circumstance that you feel might have been prearranged or set-up where you are being tempted to a very much exceeding degree to try and do something miraculous or supernatural about something or for someone...?

What do you do then, etc...?

God Bless!

I will remember the advice that Paul gave to Timothy in 1 Timothy 1:3 and follow accordingly =)

“As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

 

[Neogaia777]

I will remember the advice that Paul gave to Timothy in 1 Timothy 1:3 and follow accordingly =)

“As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

What about post #172...?

God Bless!

 

[Guojing]

What about post #172...?

God Bless!

Based on the same passage, I don't believe in taking the middle ground.

We stick to what Paul teaches us in Romans to Philemon for the gospel that saves us and for instructions on how to live a Christian life after salvation.

 

[Neogaia777]

Based on the same passage, I don't believe in taking the middle ground.

We stick to what Paul teaches us in Romans to Philemon for the gospel that saves us and for instructions on how to live a Christian life after salvation.

Which, when Paul gets into all the details, almost seems like you have to be perfect or sinless all over again...?

So, do you...?

Or does one...?

Because, if so, wouldn't you be working in your own self effort mostly in order to qualify yourself for salvation...?

What is the solution or answer...?

God Bless!

 

[Swan7]

I talked a little bit about this with my husband. We are in agreement going through the Bible and what took place.

Genesis: By a word God made the whole heavens and the earth, and everything in them.

Prophets: Foretold the birth of a man through a virgin.

Jesus Christ: The foretold man from the prophets, born of a virgin. His ministry was to bring people into repentance and believe in Him. Many healings and miracles were done through Him by the faith of those around Him. The only exception was in His hometown that not many miracles were made due to a lack of faith in Him, and so, they doubted His divine nature.

Disciples: They doubted, had little faith and could not walk in the Spirit (yet).

Apostles (Pentecost): They now had the Spirit dwelling in them. Power did not come from within themselves, but from the Spirit indwelling them. A relationship was established here.

Overall
I believe this still occurs today, just not in abundance because there are many who aren’t following Christ Jesus. Not only that, but God ultimately makes the choice whether or not to heal someone. For all we know He could be using those ailments to humble some, like Paul.

I don’t believe the ones that broadcast themselves doing miracles (like videos) are genuine. Many have been debunked as false, and it’s also not Biblical. All the apostles did was walk after Jesus Christ, and like Jesus, said only very few words to do miracles, or even none at all (like through garments, cloth).
However, some powerful demons do need to be countered by prayer and fasting just as Jesus taught.

It’s very important to consider the whole Bible when contemplating these things.
All the answers are there. Seek and you shall find. Knock and it shall be opened to you. Matthew 7:7-8

Be Blessed!