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Why thank you Grim.Hold on hold on now I know what you're getting at but let's give her at least that much respect. Even after the child analogy thing.
Please stop pretending that you're the only person who has ever offered help to women in this situation. You're not.
Actually, an abortion alternative center's basic function is to be there for women in crisis pregnancies to give them the help and support that they need in order to have their babies.It seems you only care about their feelings (1) after they've had an abortion and (2) only if they feel guilt and shame.
That isn't accurate. See the link provided.
But the zygote is not a person. Neither are the gametes from which the zygote formed.The telos of a tadpole is to be a frog and make more frogs. A tadpole is a stage in the development cycle of a frog. By killing an embryo, the natural development in the life cycle of a human person is ended. That is what traditionally Christians object to.
No, thank God, I'm not. I'm only one volunteer among thousands.
Actually, an abortion alternative center's basic function is to be there for women in crisis pregnancies to give them the help and support that they need in order to have their babies.
Most of the women we see come to us loaded down with guilt and shame, heaped on them by their families and friends. We help them to overcome these feelings.
Okay, lads...oops, and lass...I've about had it with this abortion debate.
Unless they decide to obtain an abortion, right?
No, Archaeopteryx...at that point, we are the ONLY ones there for her. Well, unless you count a mental health clinic.
All those nice, helpful "planned parenthood" types who "just want to help you put all of this behind you" seem to vanish in the mist once the abortion is over...
They come to the center looking for someone who will understand...they can't think of anywhere else to go.
And we have counselors who can help them.
We are trained for what we do, and I believe that we provide a very necessary service.
But a simple understanding is not necessarily the best. Dunning-Kruger effect comes to mind here.As Fire Dragon put it, it does have a way of cutting through sophistry.
It's kinda hard to take you seriously when you throw such nonsense at me.
Would it make you happier if you knew that, back in the sixties, I was one of those who protested the war in Viet Nam? Would you like to hear about how my best friend's brother was killed in that war?
Suppose I told you that my Dad, who was a hero in WWII, told us that if it went on long enough that his sons...my two kid brothers...should be in danger of being drafted, that he personally would move his family into Canada...and that he had already made some arrangements to do just that.
Did you miss where I told you that I have actually taken these girls into my own home, and spent my own money on them? I am not the one "picking on" them.
Once again, your attitude is condescending. I really wish you wouldn't do that.
Of course, those eggs don't fly...however the parents stay very close to that nest, and...oh, wait! We have baby birds this morning!
You wouldn't operate very well or for very long without those bits. You'd need help with eliminating urine without your kidneys, you'd need to be led around without your eyes, you'd have some problems breathing with only one lung, and you'd be deaf without your ears. Although you'd be fine without your appendix, that is true.
I notice you did not put the heart on your list...
What, Grim? Pointing out that a newborn is helpless? If no one picks him up shortly after birth, he will die. But what of it? It's not really a person yet, is it?
Actually, I don't intend to go on with this too much longer.
Frankly, it's all old hat, and getting quite boring.
I do love a dash of sarcasm....
I would have thought it was obvious. A woman can plot her "fertile time" and simply avoid having sex during those few days. It's not as if anyone is going to load all the men up in a spaceship and take them away...there will be men for her to....uh....love...afterwards...
Again with the condescending attitude.
I'm letting you know...the person showed up before the woman even knew she was pregnant.
I don't drink.
I'm proud of you, Grim.
It's good to know that you do have some respect for life...
I don't think you quite get it.
Oh, Grim...in those very rare cases where carrying to term would threaten the mother's life, of course, the decision must be between the family and their doctor. Of course, it always was.
PPD? Do you mean "post partum depression"? Hun, most of us have a bout of that after the baby is born. It is usually not serious, and goes away rather quickly. A new Mom doesn't really have time to sit around and be depressed...
Again, in those vanishingly rare cases where someone gets pregnant by rape, the decision ought to be between her and her doctor.
I will tell you, though, there are a few women who chose to keep the baby, and the decision brought her great joy. She sees her little girl as the good thing that came from her suffering.
No one would expect a woman with HIV to try to carry a child. Grim, you're reaching, here. I'm not sure someone with HIV could even get pregnant...
Exactly.
Nobody wants to shut out a woman's right to control her own life.
However, women MUST make responsible choices.
Sex is a very powerful thing...it is not a toy to be played with.
I agree with you about bombing clinics, or shooting doctors, or any of that nonsense. We are pro LIFE....not pro violence.
And the women who picket clinics...well, they do have the right to do that, under the Constitution, and I won't say that they are wrong for what they are doing.
There is always the hope that someone in anguish might be saved from making a horrible decision that is going to haunt her for the rest of her life.
Wouldn't it be so much better to see her, a happy mother with her adorable baby in her arms than an emotional wreck who keeps having nightmares about her dead baby?
Why thank you Grim.
I do appreciate you for this.
I...uh...think......
No problem. It was uncalled for.
I've been watching those birds outside my window all morning. The parents knew all along...them eggs are our babies! They protected them and kept them safe and warm till they hatched! They still don't look much like adult birds...no feathers, the wings seem stunted, their eyes look weird...and their mouths are huge and stay open all the time...but the parents are convinced all the same. Those chicks are their babies.
Such a darn shame that human beings are not as smart as birds....
It seems to me that any other point would be arbitrary and based on emotionalism.
When is a person a person? Is it when it is self aware, as someone else suggested? There are studies that say that a human child is not truly self aware till he's something like 18 months old. Is it when his heart begins to beat? How about when there are detectable brain waves? Is it when the placenta detaches, or must he wait till he's completely out of his mother's body altogether? We've heard of "partial birth abortions"...at what point in his journey through his mother's birth canal does he magically become "human" and thus, exempt from being killed? I even recall reading about one case where the fully born infant was left exposed till he died...I guess he wasn't "human" enough yet to be protected under the law.
Just how do you decide when this new life is "human"?
I've been watching those birds outside my window all morning. The parents knew all along...them eggs are our babies! They protected them and kept them safe and warm till they hatched! They still don't look much like adult birds...no feathers, the wings seem stunted, their eyes look weird...and their mouths are huge and stay open all the time...but the parents are convinced all the same. Those chicks are their babies.
Such a darn shame that human beings are not as smart as birds....
First an appeal to child logic...now an appeal to bird logic...
Everyone here understands these poor analogies...I would assume that all but one of us understands why they are poor. Eventually, we have to legally decide to draw a line between "a human" and "what could have been a human". Since you don't seem to want to do that, I'll go back to my example of the woman who does not know she has a fertilized egg implanted and does some strenuous activity. Murder or not? Why or why not?
Don't a number of bird species have males who destroy eggs? Would you like to continue this discussion of the parenting habits of birds?
First an appeal to child logic...now an appeal to bird logic...
Everyone here understands these poor analogies...I would assume that all but one of us understands why they are poor. Eventually, we have to legally decide to draw a line between "a human" and "what could have been a human". Since you don't seem to want to do that, I'll go back to my example of the woman who does not know she has a fertilized egg implanted and does some strenuous activity. Murder or not? Why or why not?
Don't a number of bird species have males who destroy eggs? Would you like to continue this discussion of the parenting habits of birds?
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