Why are there no extremist Christians?

[2PhiloVoid]

And then we go back to my argument about how the Bible is simple, an argument so air-tight that you can do nothing but employ absurd counterarguments, like your claim that there are no stupid people.

NV, do you have amnesia? I know you're smarter than this.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

You're espousing divine command theory. I'm glad you're not a theist for the sake of your psychological health. Not being snazzy here. Once again: if you interpret something about God commanding us to do something bad, who's to say we should follow it rather than, I don't know, following practical reasoning and doing the good thing?

So you hold your own reasoning above that of your Lord? Curious...

Yes, I believe that.

Remarkable.

At the bottom of all of this is a spirit of legalism, which I don't really blame you for having seeing how almost all of Christendom is down with it.

Any fears you might end up in hell then? Since you're disagreeing with the majority of Christianity.

Legalism is reflected in the idea that you just need to do such-and-such in order to be a real Christian, as opposed to the Christian idea that goodness reflects dikaiosune, or inner goodness, which is fashioned by spiritual disciplines and then expresses itself through our behavior. A person who gives everything to the poor without changing his character is none the better in terms of the kingdom, which works through modified character. Again, Jesus was making a point: if you aren't willing to sell all your possessions, you can't enter the kingdom of God, and he was saying this precisely to the person who is attached to his possessions, hence the verse on how difficult it is for the rich to enter the kingdom. At the end of the day we can't forget that according to the most basic exegetical principles Jesus was speaking to a particular person about a concrete action, which reflects a general principle. The action he commanded isn't the general principle. He said "hey, you dude, go sell your stuff," and not "you can only enter the kingdom if you sell your stuff."

You need to pay attention. I have said on multiple occasions that this thread is about EXTREME CHRISTIANITY. It is about GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND. So your claim that He said "hey, you dude, go sell your stuff," and not "you can only enter the kingdom if you sell your stuff" is completely irrelevant. It is quite aggravating that I have to spell this out over and over.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

NV, do you have amnesia? I know you're smarter than this.

One way or another I'm going to prove to you that stupid people exist.

 

[Received]

So you hold your own reasoning above that of your Lord? Curious...




Remarkable.



Any fears you might end up in hell then? Since you're disagreeing with the majority of Christianity.



You need to pay attention. I have said on multiple occasions that this thread is about EXTREME CHRISTIANITY. It is about GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND. So your claim that He said "hey, you dude, go sell your stuff," and not "you can only enter the kingdom if you sell your stuff" is completely irrelevant. It is quite aggravating that I have to spell this out over and over.

If it's just about extremist Christianity, then why did you respond at post 129 when my previous response would have closed the deal between us? Your response with the two questions indicates that you perceive extremist Christianity to involve these two points, which in positing to me you're expecting a response, which I've given and now you've found me disagreeable because I've done so.

And my responses so far go with the OP in answering why there are no extremist Christians: because there's no need for extremist Christians given that the callings of the disciples were their callings. What God cares about in the New Testament is changing one's character to Christlikeness through practices like the spiritual disciplines while also being cognizant and obedient to the calling God has for your life. All the other stuff above we've been discussing relates to the extremist question.

 

[ChristJudgeOfAll]

I would think of an extremist Christian as one who sells all that he owns, gives his money to the poor, and wanders the world to preach the gospel and do good works. This was not an impossible task for John the Baptist, and he didn't even have the gospel to work with.

You can disagree that such a thing is what constitutes an extremist Christian, but my question still stands: why is there no one on earth doing this?

Mother Teresa.
Jon Pedley.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1004/08/ctw.01.html
George Carroll
Yevgeny Pushenko

 

[Nihilist Virus]

If it's just about extremist Christianity, then why did you respond at post 129 when my previous response would have closed the deal between us? Your response with the two questions indicates that you perceive extremist Christianity to involve these two points, which in positing to me you're expecting a response, which I've given and now you've found me disagreeable because I've done so.

And my responses so far go with the OP in answering why there are no extremist Christians: because there's no need for extremist Christians given that the callings of the disciples were their callings. What God cares about in the New Testament is changing one's character to Christlikeness through practices like the spiritual disciplines while also being cognizant and obedient to the calling God has for your life. All the other stuff above we've been discussing relates to the extremist question.

You were the one asserting that this self-sacrifice is not required for extreme Christianity. I never agreed or granted that point.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Mother Teresa.
Jon Pedley.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1004/08/ctw.01.html
George Carroll
Yevgeny Pushenko

Mother Teresa was Catholic and thus disqualified. She supported the hoarding of US $10-15 billion while the world starves. How does that fit in line with selling all that you own and giving to the poor?

Don't know who the others are.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

One way or another I'm going to prove to you that stupid people exist.

NV, I think I already implied that I have some agreement with you about "stupid" people back on post #105, where I said,

"Of course I think there are ridiculous people out there in the world. It's just that I like to hold out a bit of hope for everyone, that's all..."​

But, even with that being the case, in what way would proving the existence of stupid people contribute to your contention about there being 'no extremist Christians' as you expressed it in your OP? Or, do you want to create a separate thread of discussion for that?

2PhiloVoid

 

[Nihilist Virus]

NV, I think I already implied that I have some agreement with you about "stupid" people back on post #105, where I said,

"Of course I think there are ridiculous people out there in the world. It's just that I like to hold out a bit of hope for everyone, that's all..."​

No... for example, you are being quite ridiculous with this whole charade, but you are not stupid. Also, just because someone is not intelligent doesn't mean they're a ridiculous person.

So ridiculous and stupid are independent variables.

But, even with that being the case, in what way would proving the existence of stupid people contribute to your contention about there being 'no extremist Christians' as you expressed it in your OP? Or, do you want to create a separate thread of discussion for that?

2PhiloVoid

We went over this. It's related to the OP because of my claim that the Bible is simple, and so if it says you should sell all that you have and give to the poor, then it's saying that and not trying to be mysterious. I said the Bible must be simple so stupid people could understand it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yes. And one who lives in decadence and gluttony while the world is poor and starving is in a perpetual state of deliberate sin, no different from how you view the homosexual lifestyle.

How or why did homosexual lifestyle come into this discussion? You just popped that in there.

 

[ToBeLoved]

We went over this. It's related to the OP because of my claim that the Bible is simple, and so if it says you should sell all that you have and give to the poor, then it's saying that and not trying to be mysterious. I said the Bible must be simple so stupid people could understand it.

The REAL meaning behind this is that God does not want our possessions to mean more to us than he does. The rich man was saying that he wanted to follow God, but then showed that his possessions meant more to him than God when he would not give them up. It does not necessarily mean to go out and sell everything we own.

 

[ChristJudgeOfAll]

Mother Teresa was Catholic and thus disqualified. She supported the hoarding of US $10-15 billion while the world starves. How does that fit in line with selling all that you own and giving to the poor?

Don't know who the others are.

Catholics are Christian.

The others are millionaires who became Christian and gave away all their material possessions to live in huts.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

How or why did homosexual lifestyle come into this discussion? You just popped that in there.

It's an example.

The REAL meaning behind this is that God does not want our possessions to mean more to us than he does. The rich man was saying that he wanted to follow God, but then showed that his possessions meant more to him than God when he would not give them up. It does not necessarily mean to go out and sell everything we own.

Can you please explain why God, who is also Jesus, inspired John to put this passage in the gospel if this conversation wasn't meant for anyone but the rich young ruler?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Catholics are Christian.

And on the final day, Jesus will say, "Depart from me, I never knew thee."

The others are millionaires who became Christian and gave away all their material possessions to live in huts.

Quite commendable. That's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for your contribution to the thread.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It's an example.

?

It has no bearing on the conversation so it is a very bad example.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

It has no bearing on the conversation so it is a very bad example.

1. You are misquoting me. You altered the quote text box.
2. I'm saying that in both situations, a Christian is living in a perpetual and deliberate state of sin.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Can you please explain why God, who is also Jesus, inspired John to put this passage in the gospel if this conversation wasn't meant for anyone but the rich young ruler?

That's not what I said. Read what I said again

 

[ToBeLoved]

1. You are misquoting me. You altered the quote text box.
2. I'm saying that in both situations, a Christian is living in a perpetual and deliberate state of sin.

I don't alter the quote box

 

[2PhiloVoid]

No... for example, you are being quite ridiculous with this whole charade, but you are not stupid. Also, just because someone is not intelligent doesn't mean they're a ridiculous person.

So ridiculous and stupid are independent variables.

Perhaps. But I do consider an extremely unreasonable person to be one who is quite similar to what we might also call ... a 'stupid' person, being that a person's ridiculousness typically infers some level of unreasonableness.

We went over this. It's related to the OP because of my claim that the Bible is simple, and so if it says you should sell all that you have and give to the poor, then it's saying that and not trying to be mysterious. I said the Bible must be simple so stupid people could understand it.

I'll go half way with you and say that some portions of the Bible are somewhat "simple" and more easily grasped by the common man and woman. But there are definitely other portions of Scripture that are obviously complex--hence, the existence of many diverse denominations, as well as a plethora of bible scholars who just happen to not infrequently disagree on this, that, and the other on doctrine, with some perhaps being guilty of misapplication.

However, I am inclined to agree with you in your claim that there are basically few (if any) Christians who are extreme in their grace, love, mercy, and/or charity. You may have a valid point. Yes ... we may be living in an age when Christians are tempted to show their faith with nothing more than what could be contrived as Laodicean propensities, more or less. So, I think you do have a point to make here, NV, and it is one which we Christians should probably take more notice of ...

Have you ever read the book, The Economy of Desire, by Daniel M. Bell Jr.? If not, you may find it interesting.

Peace
2PhiloVoid

 

[Thewonderer]

Obviously an extreme Christian is one who preaches to children that non belief in Christ results in eternal torture.