Why are so many Non-believers going to church and visiting these forums.

Boaz308

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I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard, "I think..."

Also You will often notice there is a lot of Scripture reference, "then their opinion explaining what it means, but often has nothing to do with the scripture quoted or certainly adding to it words and ideas that don't appear.

Am I missing something about the bible? Do we now get to just ignore entire chunks of scripture that don't agree with the "liberal Media". I have always been under the impression that to be a believer, well... quite frankly you had to believe the bible. Have the rules changed? Is there more scripture out there that I don't know about that now lets you add to or take away from the words of the book?
 

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I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard, "I think..."

Also You will often notice there is a lot of Scripture reference, "then their opinion explaining what it means, but often has nothing to do with the scripture quoted or certainly adding to it words and ideas that don't appear.

Am I missing something about the bible? Do we now get to just ignore entire chunks of scripture that don't agree with the "liberal Media". I have always been under the impression that to be a believer, well... quite frankly you had to believe the bible. Have the rules changed? Is there more scripture out there that I don't know about that now lets you add to or take away from the words of the book?

How do you know who is a believer and who is not? Can you look into another's soul?

We are to be there for help to those who are seeking God. That can be for a Christian brother or sister or it can be for an unbeliever.

That is our mission.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard, "I think..."

Also You will often notice there is a lot of Scripture reference, "then their opinion explaining what it means, but often has nothing to do with the scripture quoted or certainly adding to it words and ideas that don't appear.

Am I missing something about the bible? Do we now get to just ignore entire chunks of scripture that don't agree with the "liberal Media". I have always been under the impression that to be a believer, well... quite frankly you had to believe the bible. Have the rules changed? Is there more scripture out there that I don't know about that now lets you add to or take away from the words of the book?

So, how do you interpret Luke 1:1? What 'rules' in the Bible itself tell you how to read and understand this exactly?
 
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dhh712

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I have always been under the impression that to be a believer, well... quite frankly you had to believe the bible. Have the rules changed?

Yes, the rules have changed. A believer (or "Christian") now means anyone who says they believe in Jesus, whatever that means to them. It's no longer someone who believes the Bible is the inerrant word of God. You've got to put a further definition into how you're that kind of believer, and then you're usually not looked at as a true believer, just someone who's gotten led down the wrong path.

Yep, that's how it is these days.
 
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I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard, "I think..."

Also You will often notice there is a lot of Scripture reference, "then their opinion explaining what it means, but often has nothing to do with the scripture quoted or certainly adding to it words and ideas that don't appear.

Am I missing something about the bible? Do we now get to just ignore entire chunks of scripture that don't agree with the "liberal Media". I have always been under the impression that to be a believer, well... quite frankly you had to believe the bible. Have the rules changed? Is there more scripture out there that I don't know about that now lets you add to or take away from the words of the book?
I often say "I think..." because I don't ascribe God's authority on the things I say. Everything I say is just my opinion, based on my own knowledge of the Bible. We all read and interpret the Bible according to our own experiences. We are not carbon copies of each other. This is why the Bible is such a great book because it speaks into the lives of every person and moulds itself to their experience in life so that from their own state and position in life they can find a way to Christ. The Bible always points us to Christ from wherever we are. It is not where we start from that is important, it is our destination. It is not always how we get there - the only limitation is that in our journey we pass through the narrow gate which is becoming a new creation in Christ. There are plenty of other roads and gates, but they don't lead to eternal life. Only the narrow gate which is Christ, who is the Way the Truth and the Life that leads us to eternal life.

The Bible is not a rule book for living. It is a sign post pointing to Christ. It details the experiences of people who put their trust in God and in Christ, and of those who departed from God. These accounts and prophecies are there for our education, to instill in us the principles that we need in order to have an intimate relationship with Christ.

There is a Scripture that says that the time will come where it will not be necessary for one person to say to another, "There is the way", because the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will be the anointing that will lead us into the truth that we need to walk in the light with Christ. I have probably merged more than one Scriptural reference in that, but the truth of it is there.

We have people in our churches who have appointed themselves to be authorities over others, and that their interpretation of Scripture has to be adopted. Nowhere in the New Testament is there authorisation for one believer to have authority over another. Believers have authority over disease and demons, but not over each other. Every believer has the right to approach God's throne on his or her own and does not need a mediator other than Christ. When pastors, or other leaders position themselves between Christ and believers, they are usurping an authority they have no right to. Sadly this actually happens in too many churches, causing conflict and distress, and actually turning good believers away from Christ!

This is why when I post on CF, I present my views as just my opinion, and people can take it or leave it. But I enjoy a good debate around different opinions, and through these debates and discussions, I learn stuff that I didn't realise before. That's what I love about this forum, and what has kept me going on it for the last 10 or more years.
 
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Pilgrim

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I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard, "I think..."

Also You will often notice there is a lot of Scripture reference, "then their opinion explaining what it means, but often has nothing to do with the scripture quoted or certainly adding to it words and ideas that don't appear.

Am I missing something about the bible? Do we now get to just ignore entire chunks of scripture that don't agree with the "liberal Media". I have always been under the impression that to be a believer, well... quite frankly you had to believe the bible. Have the rules changed? Is there more scripture out there that I don't know about that now lets you add to or take away from the words of the book?
Welcome to Christian Forums, @Boaz308. :wave:
 
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Boaz308

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How do you know who is a believer and who is not? Can you look into another's soul?

We are to be there for help to those who are seeking God. That can be for a Christian brother or sister or it can be for an unbeliever.

That is our mission.
You know them by their fruit
 
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Winken

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I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard, "I think..."

Also You will often notice there is a lot of Scripture reference, "then their opinion explaining what it means, but often has nothing to do with the scripture quoted or certainly adding to it words and ideas that don't appear.

Am I missing something about the bible? Do we now get to just ignore entire chunks of scripture that don't agree with the "liberal Media". I have always been under the impression that to be a believer, well... quite frankly you had to believe the bible. Have the rules changed? Is there more scripture out there that I don't know about that now lets you add to or take away from the words of the book?
2 Timothy 2:15-16, KJV. "Rightly Dividing" includes taking note of WHO is writing, WHO is the audience, WHAT is the purpose, HOW does it apply to me? One cannot pour the Bible into a blender! The Holy Spirit is the ONE and ONLY arbiter of its Truth!



Welcome, and be blessed!
 
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You know them by their fruit
There are times when we would not know because the fruit has not fully developed. When Peter asked Jesus about what He thought about another disciple, Jesus would not tell him but instead said, "What is that to you? Follow Me!" If someone professes to be a believer, we should give them the benefit of the doubt. The foundation stands sure, God knows those who are truly His. We need to be careful about evaluating from the outward appearance because man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart. If we see someone who professes belief in Christ and looks as if there are many problems in their life, it is best to hold back from accusation or evaluation because that person could be totally different after five years from now.

I received Christ as my Saviour in 1966. I was treated as a problem case for two years because I tried to be too religious to compensate for my bad habit patterns; but I sincerely sought God and believed on Christ. Even the guy who led me to Christ thought I wouldn't be the type who would respond to the gospel when he first approached me to witness to me. My new Christian friends judged me from how I appeared to them and regularly put me down. I struggled to justify myself to them that I was a true believer. In 1969, I had a personal encounter with Christ which made Him very real to me, and this was a life-changer. One of my friends saw the change in me and started to believe that I was, in fact, a true believer. But all the previous put-downs I got caused me to struggle with trying to vindicate myself to my Christian friends and mentors for quite a number of years afterward until I encountered a negative life experience that caused me to reject all my mentors and "go it alone". I went through seven years of storm and stress, but out of it came a new realisation of my standing with Christ and that because He never put me down, neither should anyone else. Now, if anyone tries to put me down I tell them to put their criticisms where the sun don't shine. Once a fellow elder gave me a list of criticisms against me which depressed me. As I walked home in heaviness, I decided to stop and ask the Lord whether those criticisms came from Him. His answer was "Nope!" Straight away the joy of the Lord returned to me and I skipped home laughing and rejoicing. Since then I knew that The Holy Spirit is not in the putting down or criticising business.

Having said that, God has since brought wise men into my life whom I trust to give me good advice. I am privileged, as senior elder in my church to be surrounded by a group of four good men to support me and advise me when necessary. I think it is so important to be teachable, but to discern between good advice that comes from the love of the brethren in the Lord, and the negative accusation and criticism that comes from a wrong spirit.
 
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bugkiller

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I often say "I think..." because I don't ascribe God's authority on the things I say. Everything I say is just my opinion, based on my own knowledge of the Bible. We all read and interpret the Bible according to our own experiences. We are not carbon copies of each other. This is why the Bible is such a great book because it speaks into the lives of every person and moulds itself to their experience in life so that from their own state and position in life they can find a way to Christ. The Bible always points us to Christ from wherever we are. It is not where we start from that is important, it is our destination. It is not always how we get there - the only limitation is that in our journey we pass through the narrow gate which is becoming a new creation in Christ. There are plenty of other roads and gates, but they don't lead to eternal life. Only the narrow gate which is Christ, who is the Way the Truth and the Life that leads us to eternal life.

The Bible is not a rule book for living. It is a sign post pointing to Christ. It details the experiences of people who put their trust in God and in Christ, and of those who departed from God. These accounts and prophecies are there for our education, to instill in us the principles that we need in order to have an intimate relationship with Christ.

There is a Scripture that says that the time will come where it will not be necessary for one person to say to another, "There is the way", because the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will be the anointing that will lead us into the truth that we need to walk in the light with Christ. I have probably merged more than one Scriptural reference in that, but the truth of it is there.

We have people in our churches who have appointed themselves to be authorities over others, and that their interpretation of Scripture has to be adopted. Nowhere in the New Testament is there authorisation for one believer to have authority over another. Believers have authority over disease and demons, but not over each other. Every believer has the right to approach God's throne on his or her own and does not need a mediator other than Christ. When pastors, or other leaders position themselves between Christ and believers, they are usurping an authority they have no right to. Sadly this actually happens in too many churches, causing conflict and distress, and actually turning good believers away from Christ!

This is why when I post on CF, I present my views as just my opinion, and people can take it or leave it. But I enjoy a good debate around different opinions, and through these debates and discussions, I learn stuff that I didn't realise before. That's what I love about this forum, and what has kept me going on it for the last 10 or more years.
You touch on some reasons I no longer attend religious activities.

bugkiller
 
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You touch on some reasons I no longer attend religious activities.

bugkiller
The problem with many is that they think that God is inseparable from the Church, and that God can be found only in a church. When God revealed Himself to me, it was right away from any church and in the middle of a golf course under a starry sky. For me, church is a means to an end. It is not the end in itself. I have written a book and preached on why we go to church and what we should do once we get there. Most of the problems that I encountered in my walk with Christ has been in churches where self appointed authorities have tried to dictate how I should live and worship. My daughter, although going right through our Sunday School and accepting Christ at the age of 10, will no longer go to church because she does not want people telling her how to live. I told her today that God is more concerned about who we are than what we do, because when we are able to sort out who we are in Christ then what we do will follow suit.

Church is not any holier or more significant than any other place. All it is is just a building where Christians meet together to fellowship, worship and sit under good ministry. Many do it quite happily in private homes. I can have great fellowship at a downtown coffee bar with some Christian friends. I can just as well worship God driving down the motorway in my car. There is no special presence of God in any church building. When the building is empty, it is just like any other empty space. When people attend church, they bring the atmosphere and presence with them because of the indwelling Holy Spirit. One doesn't have to hype up an atmosphere if the atmosphere is already there. This is the error of many charismatic churches. They think that when people arrive there has to be a hyping up "worship time" where loud music is played and the leader yells at the top of his voice through the microphone. What happens is that because the devil is always there to assist in the hyping up to distract people from the truth, He gets fully involved in it.

But when people arrive at church knowing that they are bringing the atmosphere with them and start worshiping and fellowshipping on that basis, then there is no hype, the devil knows he is defeated and cannot influence the proceedings, and the members are built up through good ministry without the "spooky spiritual" stuff.

This is why a formal, liturgical service can have more of the Holy Spirit in it than a hyped up charismatic service. When I run a service at my church there is no hyping up. We have our three hymns and a sermon, plus morning tea afterward, and we have a good time with the Lord. The time we spend on a Sunday morning builds up our faith and strength for the coming week. That is what church should be for, and not a place where there is a hyped up hallelujah hootenanny.

Don't get me wrong. I have a Pentecostal background and I enjoy whooping it up with the best of them, but it can be done decently and in order and from the heart and not because getting hyped up is the religious thing to do. This means if we want to be quiet in our worship then we can be and still worship God in truth. We can be noisy and upbeat if we want to, and still know that we are worshiping God in truth. If things are done from the heart, then it is always acceptable.

People get very excited in a football match and it would be strange if they didn't. But when people get so hyped up that they do stupid things and go over the top, then it becomes inappropriate and they need to be shut down before they do further damage. It is the same in churches, and because leaderships in some churches don't know the difference, that is why many like you don't want to continue attending church.
 
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