Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

[DM25]

Yes there is more then one death, but where do you get the idea that any death is annihilation?

We are to lose our soul/life to find it, so how can the death of the soul be annihilation.

Annihilation is just another doctrine proclaiming God is a failure who started something but is unable to finish what He started so will annihilate people He failed to save.

What? The scripture literally says to fear the one who can destroy both body AND soul in the lake of fire... So are you saying God isn't powerful enough to destroy souls, even though he created them? Why are you refuting scripture? You are so wrong and deceived it's actually sad. You think God is more fine with letting the majority of his creating burn forever than just destroying all evil and restoring his creation when he makes the new earth? Which God do you even serve? The sad thing is you literally believe in eternal torment even though that is not biblical AND it is psychotic to believe that if we are being honest.

 

[DM25]

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Please show me from the bible where the lost receive immortality. (eternal life)

Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Is Sodom and Gomorrha still burning today? Answer NO

Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.
and he is eternal thus an eternal fire

Def
per·ish
/ˈperiSH/
verb

1. • suffer complete ruin or destruction

Yes, why are you telling me this?

 

[DM25]

God has given us a brain so we can use it. Of course we won't know exactly how he operates or why he does everything, but we are still made into his image and our morals and wisdom is strong enough to understand this. Burning in eternity for a lifetime of sin, and rejection of God, is not just plain and simple. God agrees with that, and you should agree with that too because that is the normal thing to think. Something is not right if you think even the most evil person in the world deserves to burn forever, do you guys realize what forever means? I am still convinced there is something wrong psychologically if people truly believe that. And if you do, what the heck are you doing on this website? If this was truly the punishment, I wouldn't be able to sleep, I would be knocking on doors panicking and yelling to everyone to be believe immediately and crying for what is to come and constantly warning everyone. But the truth is we should be sharing the gospel and preaching the truth because we don't want people's souls to perish, we want them to be with God, not separated from him for eternity (death). Hell is also real, and there will be punishment as the wicked burn to death in the lake of fire. These are serious things, we need to warn people. This is not good, the punishment is just and it is not a fun thing. But you also can't compromise truth, and the truth is eternal torment is not biblical, and death of the soul being the punishment is.

 

[FineLinen]

I thank God that I do not have a God or Father who erases people who do not go His way and thereby forcing everyone to choose Him or else poof....
I thank God that He allows everyone the free will to go their own way, whether His or not, and receive what path and ways they have chosen - He is Just. If someone wants to be without true Love or Peace and be bitter and hateful.
I thank God He allows us to have our choice whether eternally with Him and enjoying All He is and brings forth or allowing the burning desires of sin that people freely choose to live with into the eternity of their choosing.... I want to be more like Him and say to someone " God has rest for you peace forgiveness and Love', and when they grind their teeth and choose to reject Him time & again God and His people will sorrow over their choice, but He will separate them, placing them outside where they have chosen to be.
I thank God that He will make me fully like Jesus to say that is your choice and I will not force you, threaten you or stand in your way. What a divine gift, free will, to live with Him forever or apart from Him.... what a loving act of mercy to allow the bitter to choose bitterness and the forgiving to be forgiven.
Thank you Father for you are merciful loving and also just

Dear DeeR: You appear to be making great strides in becoming like Jesus which is precisely what Abba desires for each of us called by His lovely Name. I behold many dwelling places in Father's House each manifesting degrees of union and communion. The Master had 12 disciples, but 3 of them were in a unique relationship with Him, (Peter, James & John) and of the 3 there was one who leaned on His breast and articulated that union in John 17.

Abba allows all the little wills of all of us to be expressed in various ways, but in the end, the Will of all wills prevails! He refuses to lose one morsel of bread and fish after feeding many thousands, "that nothing be lost/wasted". The souls for whom He appears as the mighty Reconciliation as the hilasmos of the holos will not let us go. He saves to the uttermost!

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you...."

He is the Source, the Guide & the Goal of the all

 

[ClementofA]

Evidently you can't read. The words "perpetual, eternal" is the meaning LSJ assigns to aionios

You've provided no proof of that. The very first definition of aionion listed by LSJ is "lasting for an age". That's first as in number one, numero uno, #1. Capish?

Note also that the word "perpetual" does not necessarily mean unending, but can mean:

1. "holding something (such as an office) for life"
2. " indefinitely long-continued"
3. "blooming continuously throughout the season"
Definition of PERPETUAL

Deliberate misrepresentation of the quoted source. LSJ does not say "perpetual" applies to every occurrence of "aionios" Note it gives a specific example "CPHerm. 62."

How can it be a misrepresentation, let alone a deliberate one, since i never said what you state? Therefore your remark is a strawman fallacy. Furthermore, it was - you - who applied "perpetual" to several LSJ citations, adding to the text of LSJ what LSJ had not written.

And LSJ gives the specific example of "Phleg. Macr. 4" for "saecularis."

LSJ 2. holding an office or title for life, perpetual, γυμνασίαρχος CPHerm. 62.
3. = Lat. saecularis, Phleg. Macr. 4.

That doesn't mean that is the only reference. It's just the only one listed. Note also that LSJ states that aionios equals Latin saecularis, not Latin aeternum.

The only way you can make a credible source support the false teaching of UR is by selective out-of-context quoting as you have here.

In addition to LSJ many credible sources are given in the following, to which i could add many others. Aionion is one of my favorite subjects BTW:

Moulton & Milligan state "In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view, whether the horizon be at an infinite distance...or whether it lies no farther than the span of a Cæsar’s life." Strong's #166 - αἰώνιος - Old & New Testament Greek Lexicon

Examples of aionios as a finite duration in Koine Greek:

Two Questions
Does aionios always mean eternal in ancient Koine Greek? (paradise, Gospel, hell) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum

If Jesus wished to express endless punishment, then He would have used expressions such as "endless", "no end" & "never be saved" as per:

How Scripture expresses endless duration (not aion/ios) (paradise, hell, punishment) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum

Jesus didn't use the best words & expressions to describe endlessness in regards to punishment, because He didn't believe in endless punishment.

ENDLESSNESS not applied to eschatological PUNISHMENT in Scripture:

could an 'eternal punishment' simply mean that once instituted it will not change?

12 points re forever and ever (literally to/into "the ages of the ages") being finite:

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

The teaching of UR is totally bankrupt.

God disagrees with you. The teaching of God as a sadistic torturer of billions for eternity is rejected by Love Omnipotent, His Son, the Holy Spirit & the Scriptures.

Irrelevant. Shall I quote examples where "all the word/the whole world" cannot mean the entire planet earth?

Examples of aionios as finite duration are relevant. OTOH, the word "world" is not relevant to the topic of aionios.

And your point is?

Already stated here:

Irrelevant, Moulton & Milligan is a classical Greek lexicon and only cites non-Biblical examples.

Clearly you are misinformed and wrong in both of your opinions that Moulton & Milligan is (1) "a classical Greek lexicon" & (2) is "Irrelevant":

Vocabulary of the Greek Testament

 

[DM25]

Words have manifold meanings and applications as God shows us in many ways. The words you read that you interpret as ceasing to exist actually do not mean that at all. They mean ceasing to have "Life" first in one way and then a final way. Jesus IS Life as the Father IS Life. The choices individuals make about God " He who IS Life" is what He teaches that will forever remove LIFE/Himself from their existence who reject Him/Life. To Perish or be cast out forever is to be without Life/Love/Joy/Peace since He IS alone the source and place of all such things. To be apart from him is to be dead with no life. To perish or die is to not have life or be separated from life. God did not ever say or teach "If you do not follow me or do as I say I will make you cease to exist". He said when You choose to not Love or be with me You will choose to be without Life/Love since I AM all of these. His love is so great that He forces no one to Love or be with Him but allows them to walk away and have their own versions of such things which are hollow and will never satisfy or be Him or what He has/is.

That is your twisted interpretation and theory and it is not correct at all. Sometimes, verses in the bible mean what they mean. And when talking about hell, when it is warning people, it really means what it means... God doesn't use metaphors when warning the fate of the wicked for eternity. The wages of sin literally means death, and the wicked will literally perish, and God will literally destroy both the body and soul in the lake of fire, plain and simple.

 

[FineLinen]

That is your twisted interpretation and theory and it is not correct at all. Sometimes, verses in the bible mean what they mean. And when talking about hell, when it is warning people, it really means what it means... God doesn't use metaphors when warning the fate of the wicked for eternity. The wages of sin

Dear DM: The love of God prevails!

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you...."

He is the Source, the Guide & the Goal of the all

 

[DM25]

The Bible is against annihilation. Eternal conscious torment, which is Biblical, scares me a check of a lot more than just being wiped away out of existence, body and soul, forever. If hell is just a grave where souls are not being aware nor conscious of their surroundings and totally wiped out of existence at the Judgement, then why did Jesus say in Matthew 5:29-30 and Mark 9:42-48 to avoid hell at all costs?
You might say, "There is no pain in hell, but you will miss the opportunity for eternal life and you will not get it." But people burning hell ceaselessly will wish to be wiped out of existence body and soul. And if annihilation is Biblical, then would not the smoke of the torment of those who reject God, as described in Revelation 14:10-11?

It doesn't matter what scares you more, what matters is the TRUTH. You are deceived. Bible is not pro-eternal conscious torment. People have twisted verses around to come to that conclusion for centuries. Bible says the unrighteous will die, their souls will be destroyed. Sorry to break it to you (no idea why I should be apologizing as if you love this doctrine so much) but there is NO eternal torment and the bible proves it. Just look at my post a few pages back for your proof. You have been deceived by this incorrect doctrine, plain and simple. And I don't know about you, but I'm scared to death to burn in the lake of fire and be separated from God, you are not being honest with yourself if you don't care about dying. It is not a fun punishment, you won't get any reward with being with God for eternity. Smoke of their torment does not mean their conscious torment is forever... Read it in context, smoke refers to their death, it symbolizes the eternal punishment (which is death). Wow you are a very deceived person if you think burning for eternity is a more just punishment than death. What the heck is wrong with you? That is not just at all. That is also not biblical, and God won't do that.

 

[FineLinen]

It doesn't matter what scares you more, what matters is the TRUTH. You are deceived. Bible is not pro-eternal conscious torment. People have twisted verses around to come to that conclusion for centuries. Bible says the unrighteous will die, their souls will be destroyed. Sorry to break it to you (no idea why I should be apologizing as if you love this doctrine so much) but there is NO eternal torment and the bible proves it. Just look at my post a few pages back for your proof. You have been deceived by this incorrect doctrine, plain and simple. And I don't know about you, but I'm scared to death to burn in the lake of fire and be separated from God, you are not being honest with yourself if you don't care about dying. It is not a fun punishment, you won't get any reward with being with God for eternity. Smoke of their torment does not mean their conscious torment is forever... Read it in context, smoke refers to their death, it symbolizes the eternal punishment (which is death). Wow you are a very deceived person if you think burning for eternity is a more just punishment than death. What the heck is wrong with you? That is not just at all. That is also not biblical, and God won't do that.

Dear DM: The love of God prevails!

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you...."

He is the Source, the Guide & the Goal of the all

 

[DeeR.]

That is your twisted interpretation and theory and it is not correct at all. Sometimes, verses in the bible mean what they mean. And when talking about hell, when it is warning people, it really means what it means... God doesn't use metaphors when warning the fate of the wicked for eternity. The wages of sin literally means death, and the wicked will literally perish, and God will literally destroy both the body and soul in the lake of fire, plain and simple.

Thank God for His twisted interpretation, as you call it

 

[DM25]

Thank God for His twisted interpretation, as you call it

Your twisted interpretation, not God's. God is clear in what he means. Death means death. You don't get to go around twisting God's word and saying "Oh it means spiritual death but the torment is still eternal" when scripture never says that. Enjoy being deceived and believing the lie of eternal torment.

 

[DeeR.]

Dear DeeR: You appear to be making great strides in becoming like Jesus which is precisely what Abba desires for each of us called by His lovely Name. I behold many dwelling places in Father's House each manifesting degrees of union and communion. The Master had 12 disciples, but 3 of them were in a unique relationship with Him, (Peter, James & John) and of the 3 there was one who leaned on His breast and articulated that union in John 17.

Abba allows all the little wills of all of us to be expressed in various ways, but in the end, the Will of all wills prevails! He refuses to lose one morsel of bread and fish after feeding many thousands, "that nothing be lost/wasted". The souls for whom He appears as the mighty Reconciliation as the hilasmos of the holos will not let us go. He saves to the uttermost!

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you...."

He is the Source, the Guide & the Goal of the all

And the beauty of it all, of His message and the tapestry that He has woven is glorious in all of it's parts....Hallelujah to the God of gods, of all things beautiful and Just and true, His mercy endures Forever. I have known Him as the Kinsman Redeemer and He calls me from wherever I go... if I go to the highest mountain He is there or if I descend to the lowest depth He is there True and Noble to His Word His Glory Endures forever

 

[DeeR.]

Your twisted interpretation, not God's. God is clear in what he means. Death means death. You don't get to go around twisting God's word and saying "Oh it means spiritual death but the torment is still eternal" when scripture never says that. Enjoy being deceived and believing the lie of eternal torment.

They are one and the same, rejoice with us friend taste and see all that the Lord has done

 

[DeeR.]

Your twisted interpretation, not God's. God is clear in what he means. Death means death. You don't get to go around twisting God's word and saying "Oh it means spiritual death but the torment is still eternal" when scripture never says that. Enjoy being deceived and believing the lie of eternal torment.

There was a time when I was alive but dead now I am dead but alive And I sing praise to the Lord who is merciful to all creation even to the unjust....

 

[DeeR.]

Your twisted interpretation, not God's. God is clear in what he means. Death means death. You don't get to go around twisting God's word and saying "Oh it means spiritual death but the torment is still eternal" when scripture never says that. Enjoy being deceived and believing the lie of eternal torment.

The only torment my friend is not being filled with His glorious freedom to know It all rests on Him, and I Believe !!!! Glory hallelujah I believe... come share in the joy of Salvation and the Savior Yeshua

 

[Pneuma3]

What? The scripture literally says to fear the one who can destroy both body AND soul in the lake of fire...

No they don't. can you show me where hell\Gehenna is ever referred to the lake of fire\2nd death.

So are you saying God isn't powerful enough to destroy souls, even though he created them?

No I am saying God will not annihilate any soul, which is what you think that scripture is referring to.

Why are you refuting scripture?

I'm not, I am refuting your understanding of scripture.

You are so wrong and deceived it's actually sad. You think God is more fine with letting the majority of his creating burn forever than just destroying all evil and restoring his creation when he makes the new earth?

HUH? I believe in the salvation of all, not ECT or annihilation. I believe exactly what we are commanded to teach which is Jesus Christ IS the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.

Which God do you even serve?

The one of LOVE for all of humanity that sent his son Jesus into the world to save it, thus will not fail to do that which He set out to do.

The sad thing is you literally believe in eternal torment even though that is not biblical AND it is psychotic to believe that if we are being honest.

Where in heck do you get the idea that I believe in ECT?
I believe in the salvation of all, just as the gospel proclaims.

 

[DeeR.]

What? The scripture literally says to fear the one who can destroy both body AND soul in the lake of fire... So are you saying God isn't powerful enough to destroy souls, even though he created them? Why are you refuting scripture? You are so wrong and deceived it's actually sad. You think God is more fine with letting the majority of his creating burn forever than just destroying all evil and restoring his creation when he makes the new earth? Which God do you even serve? The sad thing is you literally believe in eternal torment even though that is not biblical AND it is psychotic to believe that if we are being honest.

God is not fine with any of it friend, it is sad, but He allows them to choose. People choose torture every day by living apart from God, He just allows them to make the choice while showing them how agonizing it will always be to be separated from Hi glorious healing Love. Be at Peace.

 

[DeeR.]

God has given us a brain so we can use it. Of course we won't know exactly how he operates or why he does everything, but we are still made into his image and our morals and wisdom is strong enough to understand this. Burning in eternity for a lifetime of sin, and rejection of God, is not just plain and simple. God agrees with that, and you should agree with that too because that is the normal thing to think. Something is not right if you think even the most evil person in the world deserves to burn forever, do you guys realize what forever means? I am still convinced there is something wrong psychologically if people truly believe that. And if you do, what the heck are you doing on this website? If this was truly the punishment, I wouldn't be able to sleep, I would be knocking on doors panicking and yelling to everyone to be believe immediately and crying for what is to come and constantly warning everyone. But the truth is we should be sharing the gospel and preaching the truth because we don't want people's souls to perish, we want them to be with God, not separated from him for eternity (death). Hell is also real, and there will be punishment as the wicked burn to death in the lake of fire. These are serious things, we need to warn people. This is not good, the punishment is just and it is not a fun thing. But you also can't compromise truth, and the truth is eternal torment is not biblical, and death of the soul being the punishment is.

He gives us a brain to see that we do not know as we should. He gives us a heart to long for what it does not have. He gives us Himself so we can have His mind and Heart to know Him and be filled with all we will ever need.
Our morals and wisdom, as God tells us, are weak and corrupt so He gives us the law to convict us then when We have died He give us His Spirit to make us Alive.

 

[DeeR.]

God has given us a brain so we can use it. Of course we won't know exactly how he operates or why he does everything, but we are still made into his image and our morals and wisdom is strong enough to understand this. Burning in eternity for a lifetime of sin, and rejection of God, is not just plain and simple. God agrees with that, and you should agree with that too because that is the normal thing to think. Something is not right if you think even the most evil person in the world deserves to burn forever, do you guys realize what forever means? I am still convinced there is something wrong psychologically if people truly believe that. And if you do, what the heck are you doing on this website? If this was truly the punishment, I wouldn't be able to sleep, I would be knocking on doors panicking and yelling to everyone to be believe immediately and crying for what is to come and constantly warning everyone. But the truth is we should be sharing the gospel and preaching the truth because we don't want people's souls to perish, we want them to be with God, not separated from him for eternity (death). Hell is also real, and there will be punishment as the wicked burn to death in the lake of fire. These are serious things, we need to warn people. This is not good, the punishment is just and it is not a fun thing. But you also can't compromise truth, and the truth is eternal torment is not biblical, and death of the soul being the punishment is.

I don't believe anyone said that any deserves to burn forever. I believe I deserve it, but God has not given me as I deserve. No, God does not give us as we deserves He allows us to choose what path we will. Glory to God forever.

 

[DeeR.]

What? The scripture literally says to fear the one who can destroy both body AND soul in the lake of fire... So are you saying God isn't powerful enough to destroy souls, even though he created them? Why are you refuting scripture? You are so wrong and deceived it's actually sad. You think God is more fine with letting the majority of his creating burn forever than just destroying all evil and restoring his creation when he makes the new earth? Which God do you even serve? The sad thing is you literally believe in eternal torment even though that is not biblical AND it is psychotic to believe that if we are being honest.

The word "aionios" is used 71 times in the Bible, and every time it is used, it is describing something that is eternal. The word "aionios" is also used to describe the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14), salvation (Hebrews 5:9), redemption (Hebrews 9:12), the kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:11), the honor and power of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 6:16), God's glory (1 Peter 5:10), and our immortal bodies that we will one day receive (2 Corinthians 5:1). Those who argue that the punishment in the lake of fire for the wicked will one day end, must also argue that all of these will one day expire.