Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

mmksparbud · Nov 17, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
Jesus and the angles and the saints with them are very busy. The other questions are personally insulting.

Yes---too busy to sit there and watch people being tortured!!! But the scripture reads that is what they do! It's personally insulting to ask if you want a loved one tortured forever?? How? If your loved one has unknown sins you know nothing about, that is what is going to happen to them, burn and be tortured forever---why then do you want that? One of my brothers died shooting up. I loved him, he led a miserable life---I do not want him to spend eternity burning! He will suffer in hell for his sins---that will be hard enough to bear, but it will be just. And then he will be no more. And I thank God for His mercy and His justice---His justice does not end! Neither does His mercy---state the verse that says there is no justice in hell? I have always maintained that the concept of a forever burning hell, tells more about those who believe in it, than it says about God. God takes no joy in the death of the wicked, yet people want Him to be happy torturing people forever!

Eze_33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

As long as there is one sinner burning, there is sin, there is pain, there are tears, there is sorrow. NO! God wipes it all out. Pain, punishment are for training in the way we should go---there is nothing for the wicked to learn anymore, they receive justice, they pay for their sins---it is not a learning experience!
Eternal life is given only to the saved!!! It is not given to the lost so that they can burn forever!

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

mmksparbud · Nov 17, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
You probably don’t communicate it well.
Because the wicked hope for it and consider it the best outcome, no justice befalls them that they’re aware of. Unconsciousness in sleep we all consider a delight.
When you see God’s justice you’ll see it differently.

Of course the wicked will hope to die---anyone would when being tortured!! They suffer, are punished for their sins and then they are no more. Where is the injustice in that?

When you see God's justice, you will see it differently!

SarahsKnight · Nov 17, 2019

mmksparbud said:
LOL! Just the first death is fought tooth and nail---even those that have the death penalty-they try everything they can to change it to life in prison---at least it is life. Don't tell me that these people want to die---they do not. Though there are a few who do prefer it to prison. This is not about what we want--it is about the character of God and what He wants which is a universe without sin! As long as there is one sinner burning, there is sin.

Stop bringing logic into this debate, Mmksparbud. You know eternal torture proponents don't like that.

SarahsKnight · Nov 17, 2019

mmksparbud said:
You really think Jesus and the angels have nothing better to do than to sit around and

Sadly, and frighteningly, a few Christians do seem to believe that we all will be watching the divine carnival of torments in hell for all eternity, right alongside Jesus and the angels, and making a spectacle of it, possibly even actively glorifying in the Saw-levels of suffering that we'll see. That will be Heaven for us in their eyes. ..... Pretty dang sick. And a novel example of calling evil "good", and good "evil".

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 17, 2019

Dorothy Mae said: ↑
Is that worth saying? It is called the survival instinct and it is known by everyone alive. Is this really worth saying?

When I write that men (all men) WANT to die????? I said they do not want hell. They do not want judgment for their sins. They want eternal sleep and no justice for their deeds

mmksparbud said:
OK---you have no idea what I am saying---next----Yes, the wicked do not want to go to hell, that is very true and when they get there they will be wanting to die---anyone is pain does. What makes you think eternal death is not a punishment? The time spent in hell is up to God and is "according to their works." There is justcie for their sins---what makes you think that justice for stealing $5.00 is eternal torture?
That is the same sentence as a serial killer's---why is it justice?

Dorothy Mae said: ↑
You probably don’t communicate it well.
Because the wicked hope for it and consider it the best outcome, no justice befalls them that they’re aware of. Unconsciousness in sleep we all consider a delight.
When you see God’s justice you’ll see it differently.

He appears to communicate it quite well........

mmksparbud said:
Of course the wicked will hope to die---anyone would when being tortured!! They suffer, are punished for their sins and then they are no more. Where is the injustice in that?When you see God's justice, you will see it differently!

The Jews saw it back in 70AD........

Isa 16:5 In mercy the throne will be established;
And One will sit on it in truth, in the tabernacle of David,
Judging and seeking justice and hastening righteousness.” [Revelation 19:2]

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us! when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-consummation<4930> of the Age?

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17:1 And came one out of the seven Messengers, those having the seven vials/bowls<5357>, and He speaks with me, saying
"come-hither!<1204> I shall be showing to thee the judgment of the great harlot<4204> sitting upon many waters,

Revelation 19:
1 After these I hear as a great sound of a vast throng in the heaven, saying,
"HalleluYah! the salvation and the glory and the honor, and the power of our God;
2 That true and righteous His judgings, that He judges the great harlot who corrupts the earth in Her whoredom,
and avenges<1556> the blood of His bond-servants out of Her hand".
===================
"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

Luke 21:
22 That days of vengeance<1557> these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath<3709> upon this people.
=================================
Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive
The Historical Fall of Jerusalem in AD70

Dorothy Mae · Nov 17, 2019

SarahsKnight said:
Stop bringing logic into this debate, Mmksparbud. You know eternal torture proponents don't like that.

Actually we do. Those who deny there is justice with God don’t.

mmksparbud · Nov 17, 2019

SarahsKnight said:
Sadly, and frighteningly, a few Christians do seem to believe that we all will be watching the divine carnival of torments in hell for all eternity, right alongside Jesus and the angels, and making a spectacle of it, possibly even actively glorifying in the Saw-levels of suffering that we'll see. That will be Heaven for us in their eyes. ..... Pretty dang sick. And a novel example of calling evil "good", and good "evil".

Some have said that the purpose of a forever burning hell is to keep sin from happening again! Only those who do not know the character of God would say that. God does everything from love, not from fear. If it was fear in us that He wanted, He would have destroyed Lucifer at the beginning and then Adam and Eve at their first sin. We will not be kept from sinning again out of fear of being thrown into hell. Jesus will carry the scars of His crucifixion forever, it is those scars, suffered for His love for us, that will keep us from sinning ever again. Love, not fear, is the way God rules, always has, always will.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 17, 2019

Dorothy Mae said: ↑
All the evil doers of the world hope and trust there is no hell, just death. That is their most treasured desire as regarding death and thereafter. It is difficult to think that God wants to fulfill the great desire of the wicked because of their wickedness, thereby rewarding them as they would very much wish it to be.

mmksparbud said: ↑
LOL! Just the first death is fought tooth and nail---even those that have the death penalty-they try everything they can to change it to life in prison---at least it is life. Don't tell me that these people want to die---they do not. Though there are a few who do prefer it to prison. This is not about what we want--it is about the character of God and what He wants which is a universe without sin! As long as there is one sinner burning, there is sin.

SarahsKnight said:
Stop bringing logic into this debate, Mmksparbud. You know eternal torture proponents don't like that.

As someone once said "I make the illogical logical"

Dorothy Mae · Nov 17, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Yes---too busy to sit there and watch people being tortured!!! But the scripture reads that is what they do! It's personally insulting to ask if you want a loved one tortured forever?? How? If your loved one has unknown sins you know nothing about, that is what is going to happen to them, burn and be tortured forever---why then do you want that? One of my brothers died shooting up. I loved him, he led a miserable life---I do not want him to spend eternity burning! He will suffer in hell for his sins---that will be hard enough to bear, but it will be just. And then he will be no more. And I thank God for His mercy and His justice---His justice does not end! Neither does His mercy---state the verse that says there is no justice in hell? I have always maintained that the concept of a forever burning hell, tells more about those who believe in it, than it says about God. God takes no joy in the death of the wicked, yet people want Him to be happy torturing people forever!

There are many whose personal preferences have sway over how they think. They don’t want their evil ones to suffer so they make a theology that suits them.

Eze_33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

And yet the wicked for with no repentance for their deeds.
[/quote]
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.[/quote] The “they” doesn’t include the evil doers.

As long as there is one sinner burning, there is sin, there is pain, there are tears, there is sorrow.

The justice of God is not sin.

NO! God wipes it all out. Pain, punishment are for training in the way we should go---there is nothing for the wicked to learn anymore, they receive justice, they pay for their sins---it is not a learning experience!

Correct. They blew that chance permanently.

Eternal life is given only to the saved!!! It is not given to the lost so that they can burn forever!

The damned didn’t want it.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Believing is the operative word.

mmksparbud · Nov 17, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
Actually we do. Those who deny there is justice with God don’t.

God is justice---and His punishment of the wicked will be just. Justice is not torture forever.

Mountainmanbob · Nov 17, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Justice is not torture forever.

Maybe it is?
Hell is not explained as pretty.
M

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 17, 2019

mmksparbud said: ↑
This is not about what we want--it is about the character of God and what He wants which is a universe without sin! As long as there is one sinner burning, there is sin. What if this is someone you dearly love, but you did not know they had a secret sin? A parent, a sibling, a spouse. I guess you would love to see them burn and be tortured forever? God will not go against His own character. Anyway you slice it---an eternal burning hell is not justice.

SarahsKnight said:
Sadly, and frighteningly, a few Christians do seem to believe that we all will be watching the divine carnival of torments in hell for all eternity, right alongside Jesus and the angels, and making a spectacle of it, possibly even actively glorifying in the Saw-levels of suffering that we'll see. That will be Heaven for us in their eyes. ..... Pretty dang sick. And a novel example of calling evil "good", and good "evil".

Did you happen to view this previous post of mine?
What is your view on it?

LittleLambofJesus said:
Yeah that doesn't seem right to me either............

Revelation 14 and 19 shows both a people and great City, [70AD Jerusalem], going up forever.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

How can that be, when we can see Jerusalem today as a regular City! What?

Reve 19:3 "The smoke of the tormenting them/Her ascending Ages of the Ages"

Revelation 14:
10 And he is drinking out of the wine of the fury of the God, of the having been blended undiluted in the drink cup of the wrath of Him and he shall be being tormented in fire and sulfur in sight of holy Messengers and in view of the Lambkin
11 And the Smoke of the Tormenting/basanismou <929> of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages. And not they are having rest Day and Night

Revelation 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

Kindgdom Bible Studies Chapter 7 "Lake of Fire"
TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB

.............Ah, the torment comes not from the Lamb. The torment lies within the bosoms of the tormented. The Scripture does not say that the Lamb torments them! If you think it does, you are mistaken. It states that THEY ARE TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb. What a thought! TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE. The Lamb is merely present. He does not torment. The condition is within themselves...................

Luke 16 "Rich Man/Poor Man" parable.....The most misunderstood/misinterpreted Parable in the NT?

mmksparbud · Nov 17, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
There are many whose personal preferences have sway over how they think. They don’t want their evil ones to suffer so they make a theology that suits them.

Well, then, for those that want a forever burning hell, must have a great desire to see someone they hate burning forever and must then change the very character of God to suit their personal preferences.

Dorothy Mae said:
And yet the wicked for with no repentance for their deeds.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.[/quote] The “they” doesn’t include the evil doers.[/QUOTE]

No---it does include the saved---who would be crying, in sorrow and hurting to see someone they loved so dearly burning throughout eternity. We would have to have our very souls changed into unfeeling zombies, without love of any sort to look upon such a scene throughout eternity. We would have to become what God hates---those without a conscience, unfeeling, uncaring.

Dorothy Mae said:
The justice of God is not sin.

Who said it is?? But as long as the sinner lives, there is sin in the world and God will wipe out all sin.

Dorothy Mae said:
Believing is the operative word.

Of course, for the saved---for the lost it is perish.

Dorothy Mae said:
The damned didn’t want it.

And they will not get it in order to burn forever!

mmksparbud · Nov 17, 2019

Mountainmanbob said:
Maybe it is?
Hell is not explained as pretty.
M

Nobody expects it to be---but it will be just. And forever is not just.

Hillsage · Nov 17, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Yeah that doesn't seem right to me either............

Revelation 14 and 19 shows both a people and great City, [70AD Jerusalem], going up forever.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

How can that be, when we can see Jerusalem today as a regular City! What?

Reve 19:3 "The smoke of the tormenting them/Her ascending Ages of the Ages"

Revelation 14:
10 And he is drinking out of the wine of the fury of the God, of the having been blended undiluted in the drink cup of the wrath of Him and he shall be being tormented in fire and sulfur in sight of holy Messengers and in view of the Lambkin
11 And the Smoke of the Tormenting/basanismou <929> of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages. And not they are having rest Day and Night

Revelation 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

Kindgdom Bible Studies Chapter 7 "Lake of Fire"
TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB

.............Ah, the torment comes not from the Lamb. The torment lies within the bosoms of the tormented. The Scripture does not say that the Lamb torments them! If you think it does, you are mistaken. It states that THEY ARE TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb. What a thought! TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE. The Lamb is merely present. He does not torment. The condition is within themselves...................

Luke 16 "Rich Man/Poor Man" parable.....The most misunderstood/misinterpreted Parable in the NT?

Thank you LLoJ for the 'cut/paste' info of your post. Especially the 'short' 2 videos. I even learned more concerning this truth which we hold in common. A truth that is contrary to the lie which has been swallowed hook, line and sinker by those too lazy to spend 10 minutes to watch a well done video. I have added his URL to my favorites.

mmksparbud · Nov 17, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Did you happen to view this previous post of mine?
What is your view on it?

No, it does come from God--He is a consuming fire,
Deu_4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Deu_9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.
Heb_12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

2Ki_1:12 And Elijah answered and said unto them, If I be a man of God, let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And the fire of God came down from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.
Job_1:16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Rev_20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The problem is that most people separate God from the fire---but He is fire. The saved are kept safe from the fire because of the blood of Jesus---we are protected from it. The lost have no protection.

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

The saved will be like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego---we will be walking in the midst of the fire of Jesus and God without any harm at all. Like the burning bush---we will not be consumed, but the wicked will be.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 17, 2019

Dorothy Mae said: ↑
All the evil doers of the world hope and trust there is no hell, just death. That is their most treasured desire as regarding death and thereafter. It is difficult to think that God wants to fulfill the great desire of the wicked because of their wickedness, thereby rewarding them as they would very much wish it to be.

mmksparbud said: ↑
LOL! Just the first death is fought tooth and nail---The same sentence handed out for stealing $5.00 or for killing millions of people---eternal pain in hell---is simply not justice and not "according to their works."

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Yeah that doesn't seem right to me either............

Hillsage said:
Thank you LLoJ for the 'cut/paste' info of your post. Especially the 'short' 2 videos. I even learned more concerning this truth which we hold in common. A truth that is contrary to the lie which has been swallowed hook, line and sinker by those too lazy to spend 10 minutes to watch a well done video. I have added his URL to my favorites.

Hello Hillsage.
Here is his website if you and/or others are interested.
His videos are very good, and he does delve into the Greek and translations............

Total Victory of Christ

The Total Victory of Christ
Videos
===================================

DM25 said: ↑

Before I begin I want to say that I am in no way one of those people who believe in annihilation to please my flesh or rely on my own understanding to make myself feel better. Sure you can use God's character as an argument, but I am here to show you pure biblical evidence where God clearly states the punishment for sin is death. If I saw in scripture God clearly say the wicked will have eternal conscious torment and hell is an eternal torture chamber, I would still trust him and accept that. But I just don't see the biblical evidence for this popular belief and ironically enough, so many Christians who are deep in the bible and far in their walk believe this view and think the truth (death of the wicked) is unbiblcal. I think scripture was twisted and the church popularized this false belief, and they obviously did a good job in it.

SarahsKnight said:
It's easy. For fire-and-brimstone Christians who like talking about how God's "gonna get you", moreso than the simple good news of the Gospel, if people come to believe that Gehenna is actually any less harsh a punishment than eternal torture - any less harsh at all - then they lose control over their unbelieving counterparts (and fellow Christians who disagree with them on any peripheral Biblical subject) via fear.

EastCoastRemnant said:
I agree with your comments SarahKnight... I would also add that mans carnal need for vengeance and self righteous condemnation play a part.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 17, 2019

mmksparbud said:
God is justice---and His punishment of the wicked will be just. Justice is not torture forever.

So you are determining what God has to do to be just in your eyes. Who is in charge?

Dorothy Mae · Nov 17, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Nobody expects it to be---but it will be just. And forever is not just.

I assume you also agree eternal life is unjust and therefore untrue?

Mountainmanbob · Nov 17, 2019

Will it please me that some will burn in hell forever?

Nope they just get what they deserve.
M-Bob

Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

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