Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

[ClementofA]

How can you say with certainty that God told you anything? Especially when it contradicts the writings of the first Christians?

"No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments" (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]). Justin Martyr

"The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . It is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever" (Against Heresies 4:28:2 [A.D. 181]). Irenaeus

"After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending" (Apology 18:3 [A.D. 197]). Tertullian


This is what rebellion against Church authority has brought us: a smorgasbord of opposing doctrines, all claiming to be inspired by God but all at odds with what His own Church has decreed.

Epistle of Barnabas' (70-135 AD)
15:7-8 Behold, therefore: certainly then one properly resting sanctifies it, when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves. Further, He says to them, "Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure." Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world.

Clement of Rome (d. 99 AD)
1 Clem 7:4 Let us fix our eyes on the blood of Christ and understand how precious it is unto His Father, because being shed for our salvation it won for the whole world the grace of repentance.
1 Clem 19:2b and let us look steadfastly unto the Father and Maker of the whole world, and cleave unto His splendid and excellent gifts of peace and benefits.
1 Clem 19:3 Let us behold Him in our mind, and let us look with the eyes of our soul unto His long-suffering will. Let us note how free from anger He is towards all His creatures.
1 Clem 27:2 He that commanded not to lie, much more shall He Himself not lie: for nothing is impossible with God save to lie.
1 Clem 29:3 And in another place He saith, Behold, the Lord taketh for Himself a nation out of the midst of the nations, as a man taketh the first fruits of his threshing floor; and the holy of holies shall come forth from that nation.
1 Clem 36:4 but of His Son the Master said thus, Thou art My Son, I this day have begotten thee. Ask of Me, and I will give Thee the Gentiles for Thine inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Thy possession.
1 Clem 52:1 The Master, brethren, hath need of nothing at all. He desireth not anything of any man, save to confess unto Him.
1 Clem 53:4 And Moses said; Nay, not so, Lord Forgive this people their sin, or blot me also out of the book of the living.
1 Clem 53:5 O mighty love! O unsurpassable perfection! The servant is bold with his Master; he asketh forgiveness for the multitude, or he demandeth that himself also be blotted out with them.
1 Clem 54:1 Who therefore is noble among you? Who is compassionate? Who is fulfilled with love?
1 Clem 56:1 Therefore let us also make intercession for them that are in any transgression, that forbearance and humility may be given them, to the end that they may yield not unto us, but unto the will of God. For so shall the compassionate remembrance of them with God and the saints be fruitful unto them, and perfect.
1 Clem 59:4 We beseech Thee, Lord and Master, to be our help and succor. Save those among us who are in tribulation; have mercy on the lowly; lift up the fallen; show Thyself unto the needy; heal the ungodly; convert the wanderers of Thy people; feed the hungry; release our prisoners; raise up the weak; comfort the fainthearted. Let all the Gentiles know that Thou art the God alone, and Jesus Christ is Thy Son, and we are Thy people and the sheep of Thy pasture.

Sibylline Oracles (80-195 AD)
And God, immortal and omnipotent, will grant another gift to these pious
persons: when they will ask him, he will grant them to save the human beings
from the fierce fire, and from the otherworldly [αἰώνιος] gnashing of teeth, and
will do so after pulling them out of the unquenchable flame and removing
them [ἀπὸ φλογὸς ἀκαμάτοιο ἄλοσ’ ἀποστήσας], destining them, for the sake
of his own elect, to the other life, that of the world to come, for immortals
[ζωὴν ἑτέραν καὶ αἰώνιον ἀθανάτοισιν], in the Elysian Fields, where there are the
long waves of the Acherusian Lake, imperishable, which has a deep bed.
(2,330–338)

Apocalypse of Peter (c. 100-150 AD)
Then I will grant to my called and elect ones whomsoever they request from me, out of the punishment. And I will give them [i.e. those for whom the elect pray] a fine baptism in salvation from the Acherousian Lake (which is, they say, in the Elysian field), a portion of righteousness with my holy ones (ApPet 14:1, translating the text as corrected by M. R. James and confirmed by SibOr 2:330-338).

Bardaisan of Edessa (154–222 AD)

"But whenever God likes, everything can be, with no obstacle at all. In fact,
there is nothing that can impede that great and holy will. For, even those
who are convinced to resist God, do not resist by their force, but they are
in evil and error, and this can be only for a short time, because God is kind
and gentle, and allows all natures to remain in the state in which they are,
and to govern themselves by their own will, but at the same time they are
conditioned by the things that are done and the plans that have been conceived
[sc. by God] in order to help them. For this order and this government that have
been given [sc. by God], and the association of one with another, damps the
natures’ force, so that they cannot be either completely harmful or completely
harmed, as they were harmful and harmed before the creation of the world.
And there will come a time when even this capacity for harm that remains in
them will be brought to an end by the instruction that will obtain in a different
arrangement of things: and, once that new world will be constituted, all evil
movements will cease, all rebellions will come to an end, and the fools will be
persuaded, and the lacks will be filled, and there will be safety and peace, as a
gift of the Lord of all natures." (Laws of Countries, 608–611 Nau)

Clement of Alexandria (150-215) “And not only for our sins,'-that is for those of the faithful,-is the Lord the propitiator, does he say, 'but also for the whole world.' He, indeed, saves all; but some He saves, converting them by punishments; others, however, who follow voluntarily He saves with dignity of honour; so 'that every knee should bow to Him, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth;' that is, angels, men, and souls that before His advent have departed from this temporal life." (Fragments, 1:3, c. 2, v. 2)

Origen (c. 184 - c. 253) "So then, when the end has been restored to the beginning, and the termination of things compared with their commencement, that condition of things will be re-established in which rational nature was placed, when it had no need to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; so that when all feeling of wickedness has been removed, and the individual has been purified and cleansed, He who alone is the one good God becomes to him 'all,' and that not in the case of a few individuals, or of a considerable number, but He Himself is 'all in all.' And when death shall no longer anywhere exist, nor the sting of death, nor any evil at all, then verily God will be 'all in all'" — De Prinicipiis 3.6.3

Didymus the Blind of Alexandria (310/13 ca.–395/8 AD)
This is said about rational creatures [τῶν λογικῶν]. Since, among all of them, there are also some who have become wicked, know how these will have a restoration [κατάστασιν] once they have arrived in the hands of the Son, obviously after rejecting the evilness [κακίαν] that they had, and assuming virtue [ἀρετήν]. For one should not pay attention to those who propound sophisms, claiming that only those rational beings who have sanctity [ἁγιότητα] are called. [In Comm. in Io., fr. 2]

It is impossible that wood, grass, and straw disappear in such a way as not to exist any more, but sinners will disappear insofar as they are grass and so on. Indeed, this fire of the corrective punishment is not active against the substance, but against habits and qualities [sc. bad habits and qualities]. For this fire consumes, not creatures, but certain conditions and certain habits. [Comm. in Ps. 20–21 col. 21,15]

“Gregory of Nyssa (A.D. 330-394)
A certain deception was indeed practised upon the Evil one, by concealing the Divine nature within the human; but for the latter, as himself a deceiver, it was only a just recompense that he should be deceived himself: the great adversary must himself at last find that what has been done is just and salutary, when he also shall experience the benefit of the Incarnation. He, as well as humanity, will be purged.” (The Great Catechism, 26, newadvent.org/fathers/2908.htm)”


"the originator of evil himself will be healed” (Catechetical Orations 26. The Catechetical Oration of Gregory of Nyssa. Edited by James H. Srawley. Cambridge, 1903, p. 101).

‘For it is evident that God will, in truth, be ‘in all’ then when there shall be no evil seen in anything. … When every created being is at harmony with itself and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; when every creature shall have been made one body, then shall the body of Christ be subject to the Father. … Now the body of Christ, as I have said often before, is the whole of humanity’ (Orat. in I Cor. xv.28).


Early Church Writings Fathers:
Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times
Indeed Very Many: Universalism in the Early Church
Early church writings re final destiny (paradise, hell, punishment, doctrine) - Christianity -  - City-Data Forum
Articles on the history of Christian Universalism throughout the centuries
https://s3.amazonaws.com/unsearchab.../©CPC+The+Ancient+History+of+Universalism.pdf
Universalism...First 500 Years

 

[redleghunter]

Death never means annihilation in Scriptures. Separation yes but not the permanent non existence.

Revelation 21 speaks of the second death. This is the second separation.

8But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

 

[redleghunter]

When you consider all scripture the UR doctrine is blown away.

That’s my observation as well. UR lacks a systematic approach.

 

[Der Alte]

So I'm back because I literally got confirmation by God on this.... I was thinking about this for a bit, I prayed about it and asked God for the answer. I opened up a random verse and it was about the wicked perishing. Right then and there I knew what God told me...

This is called anecdotal evidence. Such evidence usually cannot be proved nor disproved. It is very common in heterodox religious groups e.g. JW, LDS, WWCG, UU, OP, UPCI, INC etc. Their founders all claim to have direct guidance from God and they are all different.

 

[mmksparbud]

Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mar_10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Joh_3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh_4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
Joh_5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh_10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh_12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Joh_17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh_17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom_2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Ti_6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1Ti_6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Tit_1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Tit_3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1Jn_1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn_2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jn_3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn_5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1Jn_5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Jud_1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.


There is no eternal life for the lost---it is the gift of God for the saved. There is no such thing as life without God--`Nowhere in the bible does it say the lost are given eternal life. Life outside the presence of God is nonexistence --there is absolutely no life without Him, He is what sustains.

Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

The wicked are punished in the presence of God, the angels and the Lamb---
What is not understood is that being in the presence of God is a fire----it is a fire of destruction to the lost, a fire of eternal life for the saved. God, the angels and the Lamb are not going to be watching humanity burn forever--they have better things to do!! When God is done punishing--He leaves- He makes the world new--and nothing lives without Him.

Gen_19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Exo_3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Exo_13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:
Exo_13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:
Exo_24:17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.
Lev_9:24 And there came a fire out from before the LORD, and consumed upon the altar the burnt offering and the fat: which when all the people saw, they shouted, and fell on their faces.
Lev_10:2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
Num_11:1 And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp.
Num_11:2 And the people cried unto Moses; and when Moses prayed unto the LORD, the fire was quenched.
Num_11:3 And he called the name of the place Taberah: because the fire of the LORD burnt among them.
Deu_4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Jdg_6:21 Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the LORD departed out of his sight.
2Sa 22:7 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.
2Sa 22:8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.
2Sa 22:9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
2Ki_2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
2Ki_6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
2Ch_7:1 Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the house.
Job_41:19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
Psa_21:9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
Isa_30:30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
Isa_66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Isa_66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Mal_3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Heb_12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Rev_20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

God is a consuming fire to the wicked--He is fire--we will dwell in His devouring fire forever---the wicked will be consumed by it.
Being in the presence of God is either life or death--it is life for the saved--death to the wicked--hell is being in His presence without the blood of the lamb. Without that bood, the fire consumes and destroys.

 

[SarahsKnight]

There is no eternal life for the lost---it is the gift of God for the saved. There is no such thing as life without God--`Nowhere in the bible does it say the lost are given eternal life. Life outside the presence of God is nonexistence --there is absolutely no life without Him, He is what sustains.

You'd think a concept this simple and apparent in the Bible - with relatively little evidence to the contrary - would be obvious, but, centuries of spoken tradition from the mainstream pulpit has dictated otherwise for 90% of Christians, unfortunately. Somehow over time, death became just another conscious afterlife albeit without God, destruction became a neverending process of debilitating pain and torture without ever reaching the point of actual destruction, consumed in fire became being preserved in fire to never actually be harmed by it - just feeling the pain of being burned, and souls became inherently immortal instead of being subject to death via the clearly-written Romans 6:23.

 

[ClementofA]

There is no eternal life for the lost---it is the gift of God for the saved.

Since all will obtain life & be constituted just (Rom.5:18-19, etc), it must be that eventually (as regards final destiny) all will be saved, even though all were at one time lost & many will die still lost & go to "hell", in light of:


Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

Phil.2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that IN the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Cor.15:28 Now, whenever ALL may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects ALL to Him, that God may be All in ALL.)

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for the eons of the eons.

Isa.45:21b and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

1 Cor.3:15 If any man’s work is burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but as through fire.

1 Cor.15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

Lk.12:47 That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows.

Lk.15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness,
and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

1 Tim 4:10 – For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

1 Tim.2:3 God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Jn.1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
3:17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
4:42 Now we believe, not just because of what you told us, but because we have heard him ourselves. Now we know that he is indeed the Savior of the world."
12:32 And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.

Acts 3:21 For he must remain in heaven until the times for the restoration of all, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Rom.8:20-22 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but (because of Him who subjected it, in expectation that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery
to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
11:32 For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
11:36 because out of Him, and through Him, and into Him are all; to Him is the glory -- into the eons. Amen.


2 Cor.5:18,19 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation, to wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the Word of reconciliation.

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you; and all the families of the earth will be blessed through you."
Gal.3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”


Heb.1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
2:9 Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
2:17 so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people.
8:11,12 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, 'You should know the LORD.'
For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already.
And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins
9:26 else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once with a view to the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1Pet.3:18-20 because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been
made alive in the spirit, in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach, who sometime disbelieved, when once the long-suffering of God did wait, in days of Noah
-- an ark being preparing -- in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water;
4:6 That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1 John 2:2 He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sinsand not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
3:5 And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him.
4:10 This is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the payment for our sins.
4:14 Furthermore, we have seen with our own eyes and now testify that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Rev.15:4 Who will not fear you, Lord, and glorify your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous deeds have been revealed."
21:5 And the one sitting on the throne said, "Look, I am making everything new!" And then he said to me, "Write this down, for what I tell you is trustworthy and true."

"Jn 3:35-The Father gave Him all things-
2Cor 5:15-Jesus died for all
Rm 11:15-Reconciliation of the world
Heb. 7:25-Jesus is able to save to the uttermost
Is 46:10-God will do all His pleasure
Gen 18:18-All families of the earth will be blessed
Ps 66:3,4-Enemies will submit to God
Is 2:2-All nations shall flow to the Lord's house
Ps 86:9-All nations will worship Him
Ps 138:4-All kings will praise God
Ps 65:2-4-All flesh will come to God
Is 19:14,15-Egypt & Assyria will be restored-Really?
Ezk 16:55-Sodom will be restored to former estate-Sounds impossible.
Jer 32:17-Nothing is too difficult for Him-Nothing? No, nothing!
Ps 22:27-All ends of the earth will turn to Him-For what purpose?
Ps 22:27-All families will worship before Him-Praise His name!
Ps 145:9-He is good to all-Including your worst enemies.
Ps 145:9-His mercies are over all his works-Let's start believing that.
Ps 145:14-He raises all who fall-Who hasn't fallen in sin?
Ps 145:10-All His works will praise Him-For "eternal torment?"
Is 25:6-Lord makes a feast for all people"

"22) Ps 138:4.........ALL kings will praise God

23) Ps 72:17.........ALL nations will call Him blessed

24) Ps 86:9...........ALL nations will worship God & ALL men blessed

25) Is 52:10..........ALL earth will see the salvation of God

26) Ps 65:2‑4........ALL flesh will come to God

27) Is 11:9.............The earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord

28) Ps 66:3‑4.........Enemies will submit & ALL earth will worship

29) Is 19:14‑25......Egypt & Assyria will be restored

30) Ezek 16:55.......Sodom will be restored

31) Ps 68:18...........God will lead (all) captivity captive to dwell in man

32) Is 54:5..............He will be called the God of THE WHOLE EARTH

33) Ps 22:25‑29......ALL will remember & turn unto the Lord

34) Ps 145:9‑10......God is good to ALL & merciful to His works

35) Ps 145:14.........Raises ALL that fall & ALL that be bowed down

36) Ps 145:15.........Eyes of ALL wait upon God & He will and gives them meat in due season

37) Ps 145:16.........Will satisfy desire of ALL living

38) Ps 145:9...........The Lord is good to ALL

39) Ps 145:10.....ALL Thy works shall praise thee

40) Ps 24:1...The Earth is the Lord's and the FULNESS thereof, and they who dwell therein
48) Is 53:1......He shall see of the travail of His soul, and shall be satisfied."


James 5:11..........End of the Lord is full of mercy
Jn 1:7 .................. That ALL through him *might believe (


James 2:13 For judgment without mercy will be to the one not having shown mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Eph.1:10 to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ - both that in the heavens and that on the earth


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[ClementofA]

Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

"And these shall go away into eternal (aiōnios) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (aiōnios)" (Mt.25:26).​

Since the structure of this verse is best described as being a "parallelism" then the Greek word aiōnios must carry with it the same meaning in both instances where it is used.

Then, by the same reasoning, the "parallel" in Rom.5:19 proves Scriptural universalism to be true:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all in ALL.

Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

And your translation of Mt.25:46 contradicts this translation of Lamentations 3:

Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.

While these translations (& others) of Mt.25:46 are in harmony with all the verses above i have posted:

The New Testament: A Translation, by Eastern Orthodox scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017, Yale Press):
"And these shall go to the chastening of that Age, but the just to the life of that Age."

Youngs Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."

Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition
"And these shall go forth to the aionian 1 cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life."

Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
"And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life."

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

 

[mmksparbud]

Since all will obtain life & be constituted just (Rom.5:18-19, etc), it must be that eventually (as regards final destiny) all will be saved, even though all were at one time lost & many will die still lost & go to "hell", in light of:


Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

Phil.2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that IN the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Cor.15:28 Now, whenever ALL may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects ALL to Him, that God may be All in ALL.)

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for the eons of the eons.

Isa.45:21b and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

1 Cor.3:15 If any man’s work is burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but as through fire.

1 Cor.15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

Lk.12:47 That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows.

Lk.15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness,
and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

1 Tim 4:10 – For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

1 Tim.2:3 God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Jn.1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
3:17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
4:42 Now we believe, not just because of what you told us, but because we have heard him ourselves. Now we know that he is indeed the Savior of the world."
12:32 And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.

Acts 3:21 For he must remain in heaven until the times for the restoration of all, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Rom.8:20-22 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but (because of Him who subjected it, in expectation that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery
to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
11:32 For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
11:36 because out of Him, and through Him, and into Him are all; to Him is the glory -- into the eons. Amen.


2 Cor.5:18,19 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation, to wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the Word of reconciliation.

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you; and all the families of the earth will be blessed through you."
Gal.3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”


Heb.1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
2:9 Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
2:17 so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people.
8:11,12 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, 'You should know the LORD.'
For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already.
And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins
9:26 else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once with a view to the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

1Pet.3:18-20 because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been
made alive in the spirit, in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach, who sometime disbelieved, when once the long-suffering of God did wait, in days of Noah
-- an ark being preparing -- in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water;
4:6 That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1 John 2:2 He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sinsand not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
3:5 And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him.
4:10 This is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the payment for our sins.
4:14 Furthermore, we have seen with our own eyes and now testify that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

Rev.15:4 Who will not fear you, Lord, and glorify your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous deeds have been revealed."
21:5 And the one sitting on the throne said, "Look, I am making everything new!" And then he said to me, "Write this down, for what I tell you is trustworthy and true."

"Jn 3:35-The Father gave Him all things-
2Cor 5:15-Jesus died for all
Rm 11:15-Reconciliation of the world
Heb. 7:25-Jesus is able to save to the uttermost
Is 46:10-God will do all His pleasure
Gen 18:18-All families of the earth will be blessed
Ps 66:3,4-Enemies will submit to God
Is 2:2-All nations shall flow to the Lord's house
Ps 86:9-All nations will worship Him
Ps 138:4-All kings will praise God
Ps 65:2-4-All flesh will come to God
Is 19:14,15-Egypt & Assyria will be restored-Really?
Ezk 16:55-Sodom will be restored to former estate-Sounds impossible.
Jer 32:17-Nothing is too difficult for Him-Nothing? No, nothing!
Ps 22:27-All ends of the earth will turn to Him-For what purpose?
Ps 22:27-All families will worship before Him-Praise His name!
Ps 145:9-He is good to all-Including your worst enemies.
Ps 145:9-His mercies are over all his works-Let's start believing that.
Ps 145:14-He raises all who fall-Who hasn't fallen in sin?
Ps 145:10-All His works will praise Him-For "eternal torment?"
Is 25:6-Lord makes a feast for all people"

"22) Ps 138:4.........ALL kings will praise God

23) Ps 72:17.........ALL nations will call Him blessed

24) Ps 86:9...........ALL nations will worship God & ALL men blessed

25) Is 52:10..........ALL earth will see the salvation of God

26) Ps 65:2‑4........ALL flesh will come to God

27) Is 11:9.............The earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord

28) Ps 66:3‑4.........Enemies will submit & ALL earth will worship

29) Is 19:14‑25......Egypt & Assyria will be restored

30) Ezek 16:55.......Sodom will be restored

31) Ps 68:18...........God will lead (all) captivity captive to dwell in man

32) Is 54:5..............He will be called the God of THE WHOLE EARTH

33) Ps 22:25‑29......ALL will remember & turn unto the Lord

34) Ps 145:9‑10......God is good to ALL & merciful to His works

35) Ps 145:14.........Raises ALL that fall & ALL that be bowed down

36) Ps 145:15.........Eyes of ALL wait upon God & He will and gives them meat in due season

37) Ps 145:16.........Will satisfy desire of ALL living

38) Ps 145:9...........The Lord is good to ALL

39) Ps 145:10.....ALL Thy works shall praise thee

40) Ps 24:1...The Earth is the Lord's and the FULNESS thereof, and they who dwell therein
48) Is 53:1......He shall see of the travail of His soul, and shall be satisfied."


James 5:11..........End of the Lord is full of mercy
Jn 1:7 .................. That ALL through him *might believe (


James 2:13 For judgment without mercy will be to the one not having shown mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Eph.1:10 to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ - both that in the heavens and that on the earth


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Then, by the same reasoning, the "parallel" in Rom.5:19 proves Scriptural universalism to be true:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all in ALL.

Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

And your translation of Mt.25:46 contradicts this translation of Lamentations 3:

Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.

While these translations (& others) of Mt.25:46 are in harmony with all the verses above i have posted:

The New Testament: A Translation, by Eastern Orthodox scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017, Yale Press):
"And these shall go to the chastening of that Age, but the just to the life of that Age."

Youngs Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."

Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition
"And these shall go forth to the aionian 1 cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life."

Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
"And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life."

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

You and I will never agree---I do not, and never will accept, that anyone will ever have a 2nd chance from hell. You can twist scripture all you want I have no interest in any of your sites either.

 

[Pneuma3]

This is called anecdotal evidence. Such evidence usually cannot be proved nor disproved. It is very common in heterodox religious groups e.g. JW, LDS, WWCG, UU, OP, UPCI, INC etc. Their founders all claim to have direct guidance from God and they are all different.

Wonders never cease to exit, we actually are in agreement on something.

 

[Pneuma3]

You and I will never agree---I do not, and never will accept, that anyone will ever have a 2nd chance from hell. You can twist scripture all you want I have no interest in any of your sites either.

well we simply trust in a never failing God who sent Jesus who is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe. and this is what we are commanded to teach.

You don't teach what we are commanded to teach, thus you are rejecting the commandment and the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Pneuma3]

So I'm back because I literally got confirmation by God on this.... I was thinking about this for a bit, I prayed about it and asked God for the answer. I opened up a random verse and it was about the wicked perishing. Right then and there I knew what God told me.

Another revelation I found: there is absolutely no verse in the bible that claims the soul will literally be tormented forever. Not a single one. In fact, I will challenge you. Try to find one verse where it says wicked souls will be under eternal conscious torment. You can't because it's not there. People have been so indoctrinated by this lie and the bible has been twisted.

Here is what scripture says:
- The lake of fire is eternal
- The fallen angels will be tormented forever
- Hell is a real place where the wicked will suffer (not eternally) but they will burn to death
- Talks about eternal punishment, meaning death. Talks about death being the punishment for sin everywhere in scripture.

People who believe in eternal torment reference these verses, but nowhere does it say the souls will experience eternal torment! Show me one verse where you believe it and I will refute it easily without twisting the word of God. Believe me, I've looked at every verse that talks about hell to get confirmation on this.

Please mods, WHY is this view "controversial"...? Why is it in this section? Why isn't eternal hell controversial? The state of Christianity today really hurts my soul. People have it backwards, given this topic is in the controversial section as if it has no biblical merit and it is on the same level as universalism. Universalism and eternal torment have more in common in being lies than annihilation does. I may be blocked for saying this, but shame on you guys. Claiming biblical truth is "controversial" and acting as if what the catholic church taught is more valid than what the bible teaches. Why are so many fundamentalists so deceived by this lie in the Christian community today and WHY is it considered unbiblical by many when in fact it is the opposite and eternal torment is controversial and unbiblical? The punishment being death IS NOT biblical. It was not this way before the catholic church, every follower of Christ knew the punishment was death and everyone was in full agreement. I realize this isn't a salvation issue obviously but it just makes me very sad, what causes this opposition? Is it brainwashing or what? I will never understand it.

1tim.2:4

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.








θέλω thelō

Tense: Present

Voice: Active

Mood: Indicative


Active

The active voice represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action. e.g., in the sentence, "The boy hit the ball," the boy performs the action.


Indicative

The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

Thus God will's to save all men, which is a simple statement of fact that will occur.

 

[mmksparbud]

well we simply trust in a never failing God who sent Jesus who is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe. and this is what we are commanded to teach.

You don't teach what we are commanded to teach, thus you are rejecting the commandment and the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Wrong---I am teaching what Jesus taught---
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

God is love, and mercy---He is also justice. And if you feel He is unjust in wiping out sin, which means unrepentant sinners--than you are rejecting Him. At the end---we will both find out.

 

[mmksparbud]

well we simply trust in a never failing God who sent Jesus who is the saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe. and this is what we are commanded to teach.

You don't teach what we are commanded to teach, thus you are rejecting the commandment and the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Again:

Wrong---I am teaching what Jesus taught---
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

God is love, and mercy---He is also justice. And if you feel He is unjust in wiping out sin, which means unrepentant sinners--than you are rejecting Him. At the end---we will both find out.

 

[Pneuma3]

Wrong---I am teaching what Jesus taught---
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

God is love, and mercy---He is also justice. And if you feel He is unjust in wiping out sin, which means unrepentant sinners--than you are rejecting Him. At the end---we will both find out.

So you believe Paul was in error, ya ok, and God destroys both body and soul via the law, which is a ministration of death and our schoolmaster that lead us to Christ.

He that saves his own soul will lose it and he that loses his own soul will save it.

And I have already found out Jesus Christ IS the saviour of ALL MEN, so I will give God the glory TODAY, you however will have to wait to give God the glory for the salvation of ALL MEN till another day.

 

[mmksparbud]

So you believe Paul was in error, ya ok, and God destroys both body and soul via the law, which is a ministration of death and our schoolmaster that lead us to Christ.

He that saves his own soul will lose it and he that loses his own soul will save it.

And I have already found out Jesus Christ IS the saviour of ALL MEN, so I will give God the glory TODAY, you however will have to wait to give God the glory for the salvation of ALL MEN till another day.

I give the glory to God everyday now. He brought ne back from death---literally--after going into repository failure after surgery and being on a vent for 2 mths--and he saved my husband from death 6 times in 2 moths and wouldn't let him die until he gave his heart to Him. He died in my arms with God's arms around us both. He saved my home with a forgivable loan of over 45,000 which will be written off in 5 years---He is why I live--He gets all the glory now. You believe that His justice makes Him a monster---if you are right--I will be saved anyway---if you are wrong your view of God as being a monster for being just puts you in the position of standing with the lost against Him. Not a position I wish to be in.
Jesus will save all repentant people. The unrepentant He will destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[Pneuma3]

I give the glory to God everyday now. He brought ne back from death---literally--after going into repository failure after surgery and being on a vent for 2 mths--and he saved my husband from death 6 times in 2 moths and wouldn't let him die until he gave his heart to Him. He died in my arms with God's arms around us both. He saved my home with a forgivable loan of over 45,000 which will be written off in 5 years---He is why I live--He gets all the glory now. You believe that His justice makes Him a monster---if you are right--I will be saved anyway---if you are wrong your view of God as being a monster for being just puts you in the position of standing with the lost against Him. Not a position I wish to be in.
Jesus will save all repentant people. The unrepentant He will destroy both soul and body in hell.

God does show us mercy and I am glad He showed it to you.

I do not believe God's justice make Him a monster. I believe God's justice is that which will lead all people (as He is the Father of us all) to Him.

The LAW is God justice MM and that SAME law is a ministration of DEATH and our schoolaster that leads to CHRIST.

The difference here MM is that I believe Gods justice leads all to Christ, while you seem to believe Gods justice requires a loving Father to either send most of His children to ECT or annihilation.

Ask yourself which view is more compatible with what Jesus showed us of the FATHER

 

[mmksparbud]

God does show us mercy and I am glad He showed it to you.

I do not believe God's justice make Him a monster. I believe God's justice is that which will lead all people (as He is the Father of us all) to Him.

The LAW is God justice MM and that SAME law is a ministration of DEATH and our schoolaster that leads to CHRIST.

The difference here MM is that I believe Gods justice leads all to Christ, while you seem to believe Gods justice requires a loving Father to either send most of His children to ECT or annihilation.

Ask yourself which view is more compatible with what Jesus showed us of the FATHER

God does what He has to for there are those that will not repent--that is it. He will not force anyone and you can not force love--by it's very nature, love requires freedom of choice---if their choice is to be annihilated rather than to live with God----that is what will happen. With all the discussion on this subject, and I have had them before with you---you have never been able to state a single verse that states there is a 2nd chance after hell---doesn't exist. You take verses out of context and you make assumptions and you add your philosophy to others. Like you did with the very words of Jesus. You reject the verses that you don't agree with and change others. There is absolutely no reason for me to agree with you theory. And what if you are wrong---what will you think of God? All you are basically saying is God is going to torture people until they say they to live by His rules. That is not love. Force and love can not reign together. No different than one these men who terrorize their women into being submissive to them. Not going to keep going over the same stuff we hashed over before.

 

[Pneuma3]

God does what He has to for there are those that will not repent--that is it. He will not force anyone and you can not force love--by it's very nature, love requires freedom of choice---if their choice is to be annihilated rather than to live with God----that is what will happen. With all the discussion on this subject, and I have had them before with you---you have never been able to state a single verse that states there is a 2nd chance after hell---doesn't exist. You take verses out of context and you make assumptions and you add your philosophy to others. Like you did with the very words of Jesus. You reject the verses that you don't agree with and change others. There is absolutely no reason for me to agree with you theory. And what if you are wrong---what will you think of God? All you are basically saying is God is going to torture people until they say they to live by His rules. That is not love. Force and love can not reign together. No different than one these men who terrorize their women into being submissive to them. Not going to keep going over the same stuff we hashed over before.

The law is not torture ( i do not believe God tortures anyone) it is God judgment, which is a ministration of DEATH and our schoolmaster that leads us to Christ.

What I believe does not make God out to be a monster or torturer of mankind, can you say the same thing for what you believe.

 

[mmksparbud]

The law is not torture ( i do not believe God tortures anyone) it is God judgment, which is a ministration of DEATH and our schoolmaster that leads us to Christ.

What I believe does not make God out to be a monster or torturer of mankind, can you say the same thing for what you believe.

What you are saying is that they will end up in hell until they change their minds and accept God---thst is what you and CofA said, right?