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God's selection of those he determines to save is NEVER arbitrary. He has a reason for everything he does. We may not understand that reasoning. One thing is certain, however. Our understanding it isn't a prerequisite for God to do as he determines to do according to the whole counsel of his will. My suggestion, stop trying to judge God with human standards like that of Arbitrariness and judge your own flawed thinking.
Love is an attribute and God isnt obligated to love you in a manner consistent with what YOU think God's love must be like. You've already taken the p[ostion on what that love must include and if it doesn't include those things then there's something wrong with that love. That is one of the foundations of Arminianism. A flawed understanding of the idea that when we use our finite minds and experiences and try to say we must experience the same thing with God who transcends all we know. Humans try to control God rather than know their place as created ones.
Yes, unconditional meaning you can do nothing to affect the decision God makes in whom he saves because that decision is based entirely upon the whole counsel of his will, not the will of man. Nor anything we may or may not do. God will has already been done in heaven and it will do the same on earth with our without our agreeing how God does things.
I have explained what Unconditional Election means. It means that God's choice is not in any way based on anything the individual does or will do. Arbitrary means something is done for no particular reason, that it's random, etc.
Hey, Bob, I notice you're conversing with others, but not me any more, how come?
I don't know where you got that I idea. I just told you that God saves based upon the whole counsel of his will not based upon man's will nor i God's decision based on what man may or may not do in the future. God has already caused his will to be done in heaven now we pray for and await for it to be done on earth. The elect were chosen before the foundation of the world began. Now those who have not been saved yet, although they don't know it right now, do await God's action in regeneration. All those the Father effectively draws and has already given to Jesus will come to Jesus. I agree with TULIP!
IMO, Hazelelponi's first sentence in that post was exactly correct. If we do not know what factors go into God's choice of his Elect, that does not mean that he has none or that his choices are random...or arbitrary.
Ok, I see that you don't want to discuss it here, I can go for that. I'm just trying to answer your objections to show you that your objections don't hold water. Human reasoning is ok, but only if it is in alignment with God's reasoning. It's not ok if it is contrary. Furthermore, it is complicated and not understandable to those who trust in their own human reasoning more than they trust in what scripture says (or they are not familiar with the scripture). I didn't understand it either for many years, but came to understand and fully believe as I became familiar with the scripture. It helps to acknowledge that the apostle Paul knows more than I do, and just accept what he says. Even Peter wrote that some of Paul's writing was hard to understand. I started a thread What's Wrong With Reformed Theology/Soteriology? here: What's Wrong With Reformed Theology/Soteriology?
TD
That's absolutely right. The same is true for so called Arminians and the same is true for so called Catholics.
You would think that anyone who claimed to be a Roman Catholic would subscribe to everything taught by the Roman Catholic church and that anyone claiming to be a Calvinist would subscribe to everything taught by John Calvin. But obviously that just isn't in either case.
So you believe that Reformed theology, the scriptures and Arminian theology all present a schizophrenic picture of God?
The term arbitrary doesn't have to mean that. The first definition is: subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion. I take this to mean that God has His own reasons to choose who to save and not, and those reasons have to do with His glory in the eyes of His creation, that He has the right, power, and wisdom to exact justice on some but have mercy on others.
