Why are so many against reformed Theology…

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 11, 2019

Bob Carabbio said:
ALL God's CHilluns Gots "Opinions".

I read a commentary of sorts, I thought it was actually a translation at the time, years ago, and have not been able to find it again,
where
Apostle Paul stated "it is NOT my opinion, nor your opinion that matters, but only God's Opinion that matters" ....
and likewise
as is written,
we (Ekklesia born of His Will, not of flesh, nor of the will of man, nor of blood)
are to submit ALL of our thoughts, hopes, opinions, desires, goals, aims, everything that is us and in us and that we think,
submit ALL to and in Jesus, instead of trying to keep it or defend it or whatever outside of Him.

His student · Dec 11, 2019

BBAS 64 said:
Why are so many against reformed Theology…

In some cases it's because they see some error in the way it is usually presented.

In some cases it is because they have misunderstood what it teaches when rightly presented.

Bob Carabbio · Dec 11, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
I read a commentary of sorts, I thought it was actually a translation at the time, years ago, and have not been able to find it again,
where
Apostle Paul stated "it is NOT my opinion, nor your opinion that matters, but only God's Opinion that matters" ....
and likewise
as is written,
we (Ekklesia born of His Will, not of flesh, nor of the will of man, nor of blood)
are to submit ALL of our thoughts, hopes, opinions, desires, goals, aims, everything that is us and in us and that we think,
submit ALL to and in Jesus, instead of trying to keep it or defend it or whatever outside of Him.

Yup - so much for "Systematics" - Reformed or otherwise. They're NOT The Word of God. your commentary cite maybe is: Rom 9:16 "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy".

fhansen · Dec 11, 2019

BBAS 64 said:
Good Day, All

This Ligonier conference from 2015 in the QA session, attempts to answer this question.

.. “Once you understand the doctrines of grace, It’s like your breathing heavens air”

In Him,

Bill

For myself it basically renders the gospel gutless and meaningless-putting the cart ahead of the of horse regarding election, perseverance, assurance- opposing the gospel regarding the role of man's will.

zoidar · Dec 11, 2019

BBAS 64 said:
Good Day, All

This Ligonier conference from 2015 in the QA session, attempts to answer this question.

.. “Once you understand the doctrines of grace, It’s like your breathing heavens air”

In Him,

Bill

1. That means God doesn't love everyone equally.

2. It means God isn't interested in saving every person.

3. It means God didn't send Jesus for everyone.

In conclusion: Maybe God didn't send Jesus for my mom, my father, my children, my family. Maybe He never intended to save them. Maybe He doesn't even love them, well not enough to choosing them for heaven. How can I then love God?

P. S. I will reply in the other thread when/if it reopens.

renniks · Dec 11, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
"Although God controls by divine decree and sovereign power everything that goes on in the world according to His own purposes, that does not remove one iota of culpability from those who do evil. Evildoers do evil not because they are forced to, but by their own evil intent. So God will judge them for both the act and the motive, as well as for their failure to give Him glory and to worship Him."

What Is the Relationship Between Divine Sovereignty and Human Responsibility?

Totally illogical.

1Reformedman · Dec 11, 2019

BBAS 64 said:
Good Day, All

This Ligonier conference from 2015 in the QA session, attempts to answer this question.

.. “Once you understand the doctrines of grace, It’s like your breathing heavens air”

In Him,

Bill

Great Video. Love listening to these men of God. Thanks for posting.

renniks · Dec 11, 2019

Albion said:
It posits that God is in charge of his own creation

All Christiandom believe God is in charge. Reformed claim God meticulously controls everything in creation, down to the most base evil actions.
See the difference?

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 11, 2019

renniks said:
Totally illogical.

Specifically is there anything wrong though ?

1Reformedman · Dec 11, 2019

zoidar said:
1. That means God doesn't love everyone equally.

2. It means God isn't interested in saving every person.

3. It means God didn't send Jesus for everyone.

In conclusion: Maybe God didn't send Jesus for my mom, my father, my children, my family. Maybe He never intended to save them. Maybe He doesn't even love them, well not enough to choosing them for heaven. How can I then love God?

P. S. I will reply in the other thread when/if it reopens.

I think you are conflating the idea that God is obligated to love with his loving his children. God isnt obligated to do anything to include save a single person. But God is clear that he chose us IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world began. Please allow me to remind you that God's will is done on earth as it has already been done in heaven.

Albion · Dec 11, 2019

renniks said:
All Christiandom believe God is in charge.

Not necessarily. Just about every Christian would say that He is...but not everyone proceeds from that affirmation to believing that he really is.

Reformed claim God meticulously controls everything in creation, down to the most base evil actions.

I should ask for a more precise explanation of what you have in mind when you say that, but it looks like you are mistaken.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 11, 2019

1Reformedman said:
Please allow me to remind you that God's will is done on earth as it has already been done in heaven.

???
... God's Will is that none would perish - He even has sorrow at the death of the wicked , as well as the Righteous - but on earth WE PRAY for His Will to be Done on earth as it is in heaven, but people still perish.

renniks · Dec 11, 2019

W

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Specifically is there anything wrong though ?

what is wrong, IMO, is that it isn't biblical. The contradictions just add to the confusion.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 11, 2019

renniks said:
W
what is wrong, IMO, is that it isn't biblical. The contradictions just add to the confusion.

So ? Why didn't you just point out / quote/ the contradictions then ? Just one, for now, unless there's more than one also to address.

tdidymas · Dec 11, 2019

Bob Carabbio said:
Consequently then, it'a an ARBITRARY decision on God's part to Save this one, and Condemn that one. You can't have it both ways.

So which is it??

It's not arbitrary from God's POV even if it seems arbitrary from yours. But even if it were arbitrary, you are suggesting that God's arbitrariness is capricious and unjust. Yet, God says "I will have mercy on whom I desire," which implies that He does not have the same mercy toward all people. If God must have the same mercy toward all, then it's not mercy any more, since mercy is exceptional and unusual to justice by nature. The text states that God decides who to have mercy toward and who to harden. Such decision is not based on a person's future works, since it clearly states "it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."

So the real question is, do you accept the clear statements of scripture, or do you oppose it because it just doesn't seem right to your reasoning?
TD

1Reformedman · Dec 11, 2019

Bob Carabbio said:
Yup - so much for "Systematics" - Reformed or otherwise. They're NOT The Word of God. your commentary cite maybe is: Rom 9:16 "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy".

I would ask that you view God's patience in Romans 9:22 and 2 Peter 3:9. Notice that in Romans 9:22 God is patience with the vessels of his wrath that are predestined for eternal ruin. Then look at 2 Peter 3:9 in context (The 2nd coming of Christ, not justification) and you will see that in 2nd Peter 3 the audience is the "any", the "all", and the "YOU". These refer to the elect and the mockers are referred to as "they". So 2nd Peter 3:9 teaches us that God is patient toward those he determines to save which are the elect and in Romans 9:22 God is patience toward the vessels of his wrath so that the vessels of his mercy (which are the elect) receive that mercy (aka justification via regeneration). .

aiki · Dec 11, 2019

www.soteriology101.com

renniks · Dec 11, 2019

Albion said:
Not necessarily. Just about every Christian would say that He is...but not everyone proceeds from that affirmation to believing that he really is.

Don't know how you would know that. If you judge by actions, maybe, but you could then say that about many doctrines we all affirm.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 11, 2019

Is that soter link (#37) spam ? Have malware ? If not, give a very brief summary from it.

tdidymas · Dec 11, 2019

renniks said:
All Christiandom believe God is in charge. Reformed claim God meticulously controls everything in creation, down to the most base evil actions.
See the difference?

I think you may be confusing Reformed Theology with Determinism, which is a common confusion. They are not the same.
TD

Why are so many against reformed Theology…

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