Why are SDA so paraoid of Jesuits?

[MoreCoffee]

One of the great comforts of being non-conspiratorial is that one need not wrestle the facts into some vast pattern of deceit and treachery. The likelihood of smart and power ambitious men managing to cooperate in planning the course of the future and managing to get it to happen is not far from zero so in the infinite multiverse theory of existence such a thing may happen in some universe some where/when but there's no good evidence that it happens here

So dear Rick Otto, enjoy the conspiracy fantasies that delight your soul. The rest of us will listen to your tails but do not be surprised if we chuckle as you relate them.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

One of the great comforts of being non-conspiratorial is that one need not wrestle the facts into some vast pattern of deceit and treachery.
The likelihood of smart and power ambitious men managing to cooperate in planning the course of the future and managing to get it to happen is not far from zero so in the infinite multiverse theory of existence such a thing may happen in some universe some where/when but there's no good evidence that it happens here

So dear Rick Otto, enjoy the conspiracy fantasies that delight your soul. The rest of us will listen to your tails but do not be surprised if we chuckle as you relate them.

I would rather listen to Rodney Dangerfield's view of "fantasy land"

Rodney Dangerfield's First Economics Class - YouTube



.

 

[Rhamiel]

Doesn't have to be protected to be judiciously prudent.

But claims of it being a mistake repeated by three popes in succession either validates the suppression of the Jesuits, or reveals the consistent inadequacy of the papacy over three successive administrations

That something smells rotten impatiently undeniable.

well the political reality stayed the same for three successive Papacies

from Wikipedia
"As the Napoleonic Wars were approaching their end in 1814, the old political order of Europe was to a considerable extent restored at the Congress of Vienna after years of fighting and revolution, during which the Church had been persecuted as an agent of the old order and abused under the rule of Napoleon. With the political climate of Europe changed and more stable, and with the powerful monarchs who had called for the suppression of the Society no longer in power, Pope Pius VII issued an order restoring the Society of Jesus in the Catholic countries of Europe. For its part, the Society of Jesus made the decision at the first General Congregation held after the restoration to keep the organization of the Society the way that it had been before the suppression was ordered in 1773.

After 1815, with the Restoration, the Catholic Church began to play a more welcome role in European political life once more. Nation by nation the Jesuits became re-established.

The modern view is that the suppression of the order was the result of a series of political and economic conflicts rather than a theological controversy and the assertion of nation-state independence against the Catholic Church. The expulsion of the Society of Jesus from the Roman Catholic nations of Europe and their colonial empires is also seen as one of the early manifestations of the new secularist zeitgeist of the Enlightenment. It peaked with the anti-clericalism of the French Revolution. The suppression was also seen as being an attempt by monarchs to gain control of revenues and trade that were previously dominated by the Society of Jesus. Catholic historians often point to a personal conflict between Pope Clement XIII (1758–1769) and his supporters within the church and the crown cardinals backed by France."

 

[Targaryen]

One of the great comforts of being non-conspiratorial is that one need not wrestle the facts into some vast pattern of deceit and treachery. The likelihood of smart and power ambitious men managing to cooperate in planning the course of the future and managing to get it to happen is not far from zero so in the infinite multiverse theory of existence such a thing may happen in some universe some where/when but there's no good evidence that it happens here

So dear Rick Otto, enjoy the conspiracy fantasies that delight your soul. The rest of us will listen to your tails but do not be surprised if we chuckle as you relate them.

Lollerskates, Coffee's statement echoes my own. And that's why I still stand by my earlier statement. Conspiracy theories like this one or really anyone that wants to turn a Christ serving body into demons on earth is the realm of the childish.

Now if you were talking actual conspiracy theories involving a "religious" body, you would be better served talking about Scientology then the Catholic Church.

At least their conspiracies actually have happened.

 

[Athanasias]

There you go Liberalanglicancatholic....put that ham in the fryin pan!

 

[Targaryen]

There you go Liberalanglicancatholic....put that ham in the fryin pan!

It's Friday...don't good Catholics avoid meat on Friday?

 

[Athanasias]

It's Friday...don't good Catholics avoid meat on Friday?

True True.. but I loves me some ham samich

 

[Lollerskates]

Lollerskates, Coffee's statement echoes my own. And that's why I still stand by my earlier statement. Conspiracy theories like this one or really anyone that wants to turn a Christ serving body into demons on earth is the realm of the childish.

Now if you were talking actual conspiracy theories involving a "religious" body, you would be better served talking about Scientology then the Catholic Church.

At least their conspiracies actually have happened.

A conspiracy never happens until it is exposed, and accepted. That is why "childish, crackpot conspiracy 'theories'" exist.

But, the banking methods of the Vatican are not conspiracy theory. It isn't theory at all, and Rick was alluding to deeper discussion connecting the "religious" platform of the Vatican with its very worldly practices of banking. That was his message about Christmas dealing with money changers. So, the question being begged is would Christmas approve of the Vatican's many clandestine affairs, including their banking and monetary system?

Going into detail about it, though, has now lost any worth. And, for the record, at least Scientology is transparent about its "theories," much more so than the Vatican.

 

[~Anastasia~]

It's Friday...don't good Catholics avoid meat on Friday?

Do they?

I thought that was only during Lent?

I guess that could explain Long John Silver's new commercial that shows the Catholic parish Friday fish fry.

 

[Targaryen]

A conspiracy never happens until it is exposed, and accepted. That is why "childish, crackpot conspiracy 'theories'" exist.

But, the banking methods of the Vatican are not conspiracy theory. It isn't theory at all, and Rick was alluding to deeper discussion connecting the "religious" platform of the Vatican with its very worldly practices of banking. That was his message about Christmas dealing with money changers. So, the question being begged is would Christmas approve of the Vatican's many clandestine affairs, including their banking and monetary system?

Going into detail about it, though, has now lost any worth. And, for the record, at least Scientology is transparent about its "theories," much more so than the Vatican.

Not helping your case for proving your an adult any.

And also, you really don't know Scientology either if you think they are transparent.

 

[GoingByzantine]

It's Friday...don't good Catholics avoid meat on Friday?

I still struggle with this...

 

[MoreCoffee]

It's Friday...don't good Catholics avoid meat on Friday?

I am planning to have fish and chips today, God willing

 

[Shiny Gospel Shoes]

There is a thread on this same GT forum recently started on the subject of "Great Controversy" and "Desire of Ages" - both are pretty easy to read - but they are large books - free online - links listed at that thread.

That will explain why they get so much opposition.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7833904/#post66043715

Best way to read "Great Controversy" is - the last chapter first and keep going to the previous chapter.

Best way to read "Desire of Ages" is first chapter first.

in Christ,

Bob

More on the Jesuits, from actual Historical sources -

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John Guyse (AD 1680 - AD 1761) was an English independent minister.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Practical Expositor: or, an Exposition of the New Testament, in the Form of a Paraphrase; with Occasional Notes in their Proper Places for Further Explication, and Serious Recollections at the Close of Every Chapter. To which is added, an alphabetical table of the principle things contained in the paraphrase, especially in the notes. For the use of the Family and Closet. by John Guyse, D.D. The Fifth Edition, Volume VI., containing The General Epistles of James, Peter, John, and Jude; and the Revelation of St. John the Divine; 1797.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"... REVELATION XII. … NOTES ... + The Jesuits, the most subtle and active of all the popish emissaries, were established, as a society, by Ignatius Loyola in the year 1534, soon after the Reformation, which was begun by Luther in the year 1517, and was carried into an open protest against the severe popish decrees at Spire in Germany, by several princes of the Empire in the year 1529, which was the original of the name Protestants, by which the reformed churches are called to this day: And how indefatigable numerous swarms of Jesuits have been in their endeavors to overthrow the Reformation; and what cruelties the Duke of Alva used in the Netherlands, and Queen Mary in England; and how the Council of Trent, the Parisian and Irish massacres, and numberless other efforts of popish princes have been spirited up to suppress and extirpate the Protestant religion, is so familiarly known, as are all the rest of the facts, ... with respect to the time of the Reformation, that it is quite needless to quote particular au- [Page 287-288] thorities, which may be seen in all the historians of those times; and are almost in every one's hands." [Page 287-288] - https://archive.org/stream/practicalexposit06guys#page/287/mode/1up[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]https://archive.org/stream/practicalexposit06guys#page/288/mode/1up[/FONT]

Sounds like it was right out of the Great Controversy itself -

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Great Controversy; by E.G. White, Page 234 - "Throughout Christendom, Protestantism was menaced by formidable foes. The first triumphs of the Reformation past, Rome summoned new forces, hoping to accomplish its destruction. At this time the order of the Jesuits was created, the most cruel, unscrupulous, and powerful of all the champions of popery. Cut off from earthly ties and human interests, dead to the claims of natural affection, reason and conscience wholly silenced, they knew no rule, no tie, but that of their order, and no duty but to extend its power. (See Appendix.) The gospel of Christ had enabled its adherents to meet danger and endure suffering, undismayed by cold, hunger, toil, and poverty, to uphold the banner of truth in face of the rack, the dungeon, and the stake. To combat these forces, Jesuitism inspired its followers with a fanaticism that enabled them to endure like dangers, and to oppose to the power of truth all the weapons of deception. There was no crime too great for them to commit, no deception too base for them to practice, no disguise too difficult for them to assume. Vowed to perpetual poverty and humility, it was their studied aim to secure wealth and power, to be devoted to the overthrow of Protestantism, and the re-establishment of the papal supremacy."

The Great Controversy; by E.G. White, Page 235 - "When appearing as members of their order, they wore a garb of sanctity, visiting prisons and hospitals, ministering to the sick and the poor, professing to have renounced the world, and bearing the sacred name of Jesus, who went about doing good. But under this blameless exterior the most criminal and deadly purposes were often concealed. It was a fundamental principle of the order that the end justifies the means. By this code, lying, theft, perjury, assassination, were not only pardonable but commendable, when they served the interests of the church. Under various disguises the Jesuits worked their way into offices of state, climbing up to be the counselors of kings, and shaping the policy of nations. They became servants to act as spies upon their masters. They established colleges for the sons of princes and nobles, and schools for the common people; and the children of Protestant parents were drawn into an observance of popish rites. All the outward pomp and display of the Romish worship was brought to bear to confuse the mind and dazzle and captivate the imagination, and thus the liberty for which the fathers had toiled and bled was betrayed by the sons. The Jesuits rapidly spread themselves over Europe, and wherever they went, there followed a revival of popery."[/FONT]


​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I am planning to have fish and chips today, God willing

Ya get a discount at LJS's if ya dress up as a pirate and also talk like one. Catholics eat free.......

........

International Talk Like a Pirate Day - Long John Silver's - Free Fish! - YouTube



.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ya get a discount at LJS's if ya dress up as a pirate and also talk like one. Catholics eat free.......

Arrr, I cook me own!

 

[Athanasias]

This song is will answer all the objections and was written by a SDA prophet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NUy9nTzCys

 

[BobRyan]

Seventh Day Adventism is not the only religious movement to have conspiracy theories about the Society of Jesus; it seems to be a favourite pastime with some groups (SDA included).

Certainly Pope Clement had a thing or two to say about the Jesuits when he abolished the organization "forever" in what he called "all the fullness of apostolic power".

Given that line in the sand established long before some non-Catholic groups like Seventh-day Adventists - it is pretty hard to blame Seventh-day Adventists for all the bad press the Jesuits get.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[agua]

There sure are a lot of SDA prophets about nowadays

SDA and JW seem to constantly update prophecy/understanding according to the times. ( which isn't all bad ) This is said to be "receiving more light" etc when predictions don't come to pass. They both seem bent on hastening the Parousia and Mrs White initially believed and presented a 1844 "shut door" doctrine which when was seen to be flawed moved onto the "investigative judgement" which is also dodgy. I don't think the majority of SDA even understand this doctrine.

 

[BobRyan]

This song is will answer all the objections and was written by a SDA prophet.

I only know of one SDA prophet and unlike Marian Apparitions - she does not do much talking while being "dead in Christ" as Paul states it in 1Thess 4 when speaking of "Those who have fallen asleep".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Mrs White initially believed and presented a 1844 "shut door" doctrine

She wrote no books, articles , sermons etc promoting an 1844 shut door doctrine - nor did she ever claim that God gave her a vision promoting it.

And "infallible on all points" is not test of a prophet according to the Bible. Rather it is the message that is claimed to have come to God that must be tested for 100% accuracy - not the prior view of the individual apart from a message from God.

A number of people in the Bible were given dreams or visions regarding some point - while also personally have some other view on other topics that was not entirely accurate.

John the baptizer himself ended his life with one or two pointed questions.

in Christ,

Bob