Why are SDA so paraoid of Jesuits?

[Athanasias]

I have noticed that some SDA really do not understand Catholic religious orders in particularly the Jesuits. For example I told one gentlemen that I went to school to study theology and he said something like "So you have been schooled by Jesuits". LOL. No I was not. I am curious why the SDA is so paranoid of these Jesuits and not the Dominicans or Franciscans or Carmelites or even diocesan priest etc?

 

[usexpat97]

What I don't get is why SDA's haven't yet launched World War III against the Messianic Jews. Here they are, pounding, "If you break just one commandment, you break them all. You MUST observe Sabbath, and it MUST be on Saturday only! If you do not, you are deliberately breaking God's commandments and are in danger or excommunication or worse, the fires of hell!"

Meanwhile on these same forums you've got people saying we should throw out the entire preachings of Paul. If SDA's are that up in arms over people observing Sabbath--but on a Sunday--you'd think they would be crucifying the Messianic Jews as they throw out practically half the New Testament. Where's the bloodbath? Where's the all-out war between SDA's and Messianic Jews?

Or is it that Messianic Jews just happen to observe Sabbath on the day they approve of?

 

[Pythons]

The SDA's view Ellen White as God's sock puppet which spoke the actual words God gave her...
...This is contrasted with the muddy work of the people like St. John, St. Paul, ect.
...They were God's penmen NOT God's pen.

Ellen White within SDAism is actually called ( among other things ) "The Pen of Inspiration".

What Ellen White said about the Bible:

"The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is NOT God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is NOT represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, not His pen." (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, Chapter One "The Inspiration of the Prophetic Writers")


Notice what she says of what she ( Ellen ) wrote in her books.

Before I stand on my feet, I have no thought of speaking as plainly as I do. But the Spirit of God rests upon me with power, and I CANNOT but speak the words GIVEN me. I dare not withhold one word of the testimony.... I speak the words GIVEN ME by a higher power than human power, and I CANNOT, if I would, recall [retract] one sentence” (1MR 28).

As soon as I take my pen in hand, I am not in darkness as to what to write. It is as plain and clear as a voice speaking to me, ‘I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go’” (2MR 319).


The testimonies are unread and unappreciated. God has spoken to you. Light has been shining from His word and from the testimonies, and both have been slighted and disregarded. (Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 217)

There is a ton more where those came from and after know that you can imagine what the average SDA thinks of the Jesuits when they read Ellen White when she ( God ) says:

By this code, lying, theft, perjury, assassination, were not only pardonable but commendable, when they served the interests of the church. Under various disguises the Jesuits worked their way into offices of state, climbing up to be the counselors of kings, and shaping the policy of nations. They became servants to act as spies upon their masters. They established colleges for the sons of princes and nobles, and schools for the common people; and the children of Protestant parents were drawn into an observance of popish rites. All the outward pomp and display of the Romish worship was brought to bear to confuse the mind and dazzle and captivate the imagination, and thus the liberty for which the fathers had toiled and bled was betrayed by the sons. The Jesuits rapidly spread themselves over Europe, and wherever they went, there followed a revival of popery

And,

The order of the Jesuits was created, the most cruel, unscrupulous, and powerful of all the champions of popery. Dead to the claims of natural affection, and conscience wholly silenced, they knew no rule, no tie, but that of their order. (See Appendix)
The gospel of Christ had enabled its adherents to endure suffering, undismayed by cold, hunger, toil, and poverty, to uphold truth in face of the rack, the dungeon, and the stake. Jesuitism inspired its followers with a fanaticism that enabled them to endure like dangers, and to oppose to the power of truth all the weapons of deception. There was no crime too great to commit, no deception too base to practice, no disguise too difficult for them to assume. It was their studied aim to overthrow Protestantism and reestablish papal supremacy.
They wore a garb of sanctity, visiting prisons and hospitals, ministering to the sick and the poor, and bearing the sacred name of Jesus, who went about doing good. But under this blameless exterior, criminal and deadly purposes were often concealed

That's why SDA's are obsessed with Jesuits.

 

[Athanasias]

The SDA's view Ellen White as God's sock puppet which spoke the actual words God gave her...
...This is contrasted with the muddy work of the people like St. John, St. Paul, ect.
...They were God's penmen NOT God's pen.

Ellen White within SDAism is actually called ( among other things ) "The Pen of Inspiration".

What Ellen White said about the Bible:

"The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is NOT God's mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is NOT represented. Men will often say such an expression is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, not His pen." (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, Chapter One "The Inspiration of the Prophetic Writers")


Notice what she says of what she ( Ellen ) wrote in her books.

Before I stand on my feet, I have no thought of speaking as plainly as I do. But the Spirit of God rests upon me with power, and I CANNOT but speak the words GIVEN me. I dare not withhold one word of the testimony.... I speak the words GIVEN ME by a higher power than human power, and I CANNOT, if I would, recall [retract] one sentence” (1MR 28).

As soon as I take my pen in hand, I am not in darkness as to what to write. It is as plain and clear as a voice speaking to me, ‘I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go’” (2MR 319).


The testimonies are unread and unappreciated. God has spoken to you. Light has been shining from His word and from the testimonies, and both have been slighted and disregarded. (Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 217)

There is a ton more where those came from and after know that you can imagine what the average SDA thinks of the Jesuits when they read Ellen White when she ( God ) says:



And,



That's why SDA's are obsessed with Jesuits.

I should have known it was a EG White thing! LOL

 

[Pythons]

I should have known it was a EG White thing! LOL

Any Church system that threatened Ellen White's creature christ teaching was Babylon according to Ellen....
...One can't really blame her as all of the SDA Pioneers taught the same thing.
...The Catholic Church ( to include the Eastern Orthodox ) claimed Jesus was eternally the same.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Athanasias

I should have known it was a EG White thing! LOL
​

Any Church system that threatened Ellen White's creature christ teaching was Babylon according to Ellen....
...One can't really blame her as all of the SDA Pioneers taught the same thing.
...The Catholic Church ( to include the Eastern Orthodox ) claimed Jesus was eternally the same.

I thought that was the JW's teaching?

.

 

[Rick Otto]

I have noticed that some SDA really do not understand Catholic religious orders in particularly the Jesuits. For example I told one gentlemen that I went to school to study theology and he said something like "So you have been schooled by Jesuits". LOL. No I was not. I am curious why the SDA is so paranoid of these Jesuits and not the Dominicans or Franciscans or Carmelites or even diocesan priest etc?

I'm not SDA & I'm "paranoid" of the Jesuits, too. But like with the muslims, I only fear the fanatics.
Do the SDA have a secret oath?, a two swords doctrine & a rack with thumbscrews?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm not SDA & I'm "paranoid" of the Jesuits, too. But like with the muslims, I only fear the fanatics.
Do the SDA have a secret oath?, a two swords doctrine & a rack with thumbscrews?

Perhaps we need a thread on "Why are Protestants so paranoid of Jesuits"

 

[Pythons]

I thought that was the JW's teaching?

.

The JW's spun off the SDA's & that's why JW's are "Adventists"....
...They're just not "Seventh Day" Adventists.
...Same goes for the Christadelphians & WWCOG, they're also "Adventists".

Each group maintains that Christ could have sinned and lost His own salvation.....
...And if that had happened then the real God would have eternally annihilated creature christ.
...It's the bread and butter doctrine of every "Adventist" Church.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Pythons

Any Church system that threatened Ellen White's creature christ teaching was Babylon according to Ellen....
...One can't really blame her as all of the SDA Pioneers taught the same thing.
...The Catholic Church ( to include the Eastern Orthodox ) claimed Jesus was eternally the same.​

​

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus I thought that was the JW's teaching?

​

The JW's spun off the SDA's & that's why JW's are "Adventists"....
...They're just not "Seventh Day" Adventists.
...Same goes for the Christadelphians & WWCOG, they're also "Adventists".

Each group maintains that Christ could have sinned and lost His own salvation.....
...And if that had happened then the real God would have eternally annihilated creature christ.
...It's the bread and butter doctrine of every "Adventist" Church.

That is news to me. Thanks for that info bro

.

 

[Defensor Christi]

The JW's spun off the SDA's & that's why JW's are "Adventists"....
...They're just not "Seventh Day" Adventists.
...Same goes for the Christadelphians & WWCOG, they're also "Adventists".

Each group maintains that Christ could have sinned and lost His own salvation.....
...And if that had happened then the real God would have eternally annihilated creature christ.
...It's the bread and butter doctrine of every "Adventist" Church.

Dead on...and interesting indeed!

 

[Pythons]

Dead on...and interesting indeed!

Most of them don't want to discuss this with me any longer as I've documented just when & where they've said this....
...Ellen White literally gloated over this "teaching".
...Despite Jesus Himself saying anything other than victory was IMPOSSIBLE.


Daniel 2,44
And in the days of these kings SHALL the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall NEVER be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Luke 24,6
He is not here, but is risen: REMEMBER how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man MUST be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, AND the third day rise again. And they remembered his words

Acts 2,21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was NOT POSSIBLE that he should be holden of it. For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this BEFORE spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses

There are nearly 100 more Scriptures even more explicit than the above that shout out...
...That Jesus ( God the Son ) was & is Eternally God the Son.
...AND that there was ZERO possibility of Christ loosing His Salvation.
...Jesus WAS ( and is Salvation itself ).

This was boldly confirmed by God the Holy Spirit when Jesus was yet a Baby.

Luke 2,25
And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes HAVE SEEN thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

This ( and 100 other Scriptures which says the same thing ) is why I don't worry that much about the SDA's endless Sabbath posts.....
...That's small fry and harmless compared to the war elephant standing in the room.
....The disgusting doctrine of creature christ.

 

[Pythons]

That is news to me. Thanks for that info bro

.

I thought you knew that?
...Adventist Doctrine =

A) Creature Christ

B) Soul sleeping

C) Annihilationism ( no such thing as eternal hell ).

The Seventh Day Adventists adopted the 7th day Sabbath teaching....
...And Ellen White as a Prophet which supercedes the Bible Prophets.
...Thus the name 'Seventh-day' PRIOR to the word "Adventist".

How else do you think that SDA's ( to the Individual ) could accept Ellen White's teaching that Christ could have sinned & been annihilated by the Father?

 

[Lysimachus]

Jesus could not because He chose not to sin. It was impossible to sin if He was to succeed. But the fact that He was tempted in every point as we are shows that He had a choice to sin. But it was impossible for Him to fall if the redemption of the world was to take place. He could not even sin by a thought, not because He could not, but because He would not. That's why it was impossible.

None of the scriptures you cited conflict with what Ellen White said.

None.

Despite all your wishful thinking.

Adventism stands vindicated.

 

[Pythons]

Jesus could not because He chose not to sin. It was impossible to sin if He was to succeed. But the fact that He was tempted in every point as we are shows that He had a choice to sin. But it was impossible for Him to fall if the redemption of the world was to take place. He could not even sin by a thought, not because He could not, but because He would not. That's why it was impossible.

None of the scriptures you cited conflict with what Ellen White said.

None.

Despite all your wishful thinking.

Adventism stands vindicated.

Do you believe that God the Father or God the Holy Spirit "choose not to sin"?
...Or do you believe that God the Father can't sin because He's God and it would be impossible.
...For "God" to change His Divine Nature from Deity to sinner?

Yes, those Scripture absolutely conflict with what Ellen White said Lysimachus.....
...Those Scripture state it was IMPOSSIBLE for Christ to be held by death.
...A very long time prior to the Incarnation of "God The Son".

 

[Jipsah]

Jesus could not because He chose not to sin.

Do y'all believe that Jesus was/is a created being, or God Incarnate?

 

[Pythons]

Do y'all believe that Jesus was/is a created being, or God Incarnate?

This in their Denominational publication.

Adventist Review and Herald, April 17, 1883][/color]


*Question to the Editor:

Will you please favor me with those scriptures which plainly say that
Christ is a created being ? J. c.


*ANSWER :

You are mistaken in supposing that S. D. Adventists teach that Christ was ever created. They believe, on the contrary, that he was "begotten" of the Father, and that he can properly be called God and worshiped as such. They believe, also, that the worlds, and everything which is, was created by Christ in conjunction with the Father. They believe, however, that somewhere in the eternal ages of the past there was a point at which Christ came into existence. They think that it is necessary that God should have antedated Christ in his being, in order that Christ could have been begotten of him, and sustain to him the relation of son*. They hold to the distinct personality of the Father and Son, *rejecting as absurd that feature of Trinitarianisna which insists that God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three persons, and yet but one person. S. D Adventists hold that God and Christ are one in the sense that Christ prayed that his disciples might be one *; i. e.,* one in spirit, purpose, and labor*. See " Fundamental Principles of S. D.Adventists," published at this Office. Price, 4 cts.

They believe that Christ was exuded out of 'God' then given a separate identity....
...Thus Christ was made out of the substance of God contrasted with Lucifer being made out of nothing.
....So Lucifer was created in the strict sense while Christ wasn't.

 

[ebia]

I'm not SDA & I'm "paranoid" of the Jesuits, too. But like with the muslims, I only fear the fanatics.
Do the SDA have a secret oath?, a two swords doctrine & a rack with thumbscrews?

How many Jesuits have you met?

 

[Pythons]

Do y'all believe that Jesus was/is a created being, or God Incarnate?

Does Masonic gatherings count?

 

[ViaCrucis]

In one of the Jack Chick comics I read some time ago, it showed a drawing of a Catholic convincing Muhammed to start Islam (or something), the drawing was clearly a Jesuit in traditional Jesuit garb.

In other words, time-traveling Jesuits.

I mean if you believe Jesuits can travel through time to mold history to their own liking, then is it any wonder why so many are paranoid?

-CryptoLutheran