Why are SDA so paraoid of Jesuits?

[Tzaousios]

oh I see its that dark-ages Jesuit-style name-calling thing again.

Is this another instance of the pejorative, anti-Catholic use of "dark ages?"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Is this another instance of the pejorative, anti-Catholic use of "dark ages?"

Tis a Jewish thang.....

Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before to come of great Day of YHWH and the being feared. [Acts 2:20/Reve 16:10]

Luke 23:44
Was yet sixth hour and darkness became over the whole Land til hour of ninth.

Reve 16:10 And the fifth messenger pours out the bowl of him upon the Throne of the beast and became the Kingdom of it having been Darkened
and they gnawed the tongues of them out of the misery.

War - Slippin' Into Darkness (All Day Music, November, 1971) - YouTube

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Do both the SDA and MJ sects view the RCC in Revelation like this?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7833184/
America Mystery Babylon

the RCC is the mother of harlots, the usa is the daughter of babylon, the globalist bankers are the third part .. Rev 16:19

http://www.christianforums.com/t7821470-7/#post65667279

So both the Sabbatarian SDA and MJ sects believe that? Who knew......

http://www.christianforums.com/t4249495/
harlot of Babylon and her harlot daughters

Originally Posted by damo73

Does the seventh day adventist church teach that the catholic church is the harlot of Babylon and protestant churches are her harlot daughters and that they the SDA are the one true church.
​

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[BobRyan]

Do both the SDA and MJ sects view the RCC in Revelation like this?

.

Are you talking about the Lutheran sect and all the protestant reformation sects -- unwittingly?

hint Daniel 7...

John Wycliffe; John Huss; Martin Luther; William Tyndale; John Wesley

Are you sure want to resort to the dark ages methods against the protestant reformers - on "every post"??

What about just "every other post"?

What does that have to do with the Jesuits?

Oh wait -- you mean that the Jesuits also accused those reformers of belonging to "sects"??

Well - cheer up - Lateran IV is always there to infallibly help your cause.



You appear to be bound and determined to resort to name calling against any Protestant that accepts the Protestant - Historical Grammatical model of interpretation in Daniel or Revelation.

Not sure if you do that on purpose - or merely unwittingly. Please specify.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicism_%28Christianity%29

Historicism was the belief held by the majority of the Protestant Reformers including Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Cranmer, and others including John Thomas, John Knox, and Cotton Mather while the Catholic church tried to counter it with alternative views such as those put forward by the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar during the Counter Reformation.[2][page needed].[3] This alternate view, served to bolster the Catholic Church's position against attacks by Protestants,[4][5] and is viewed as a Catholic defense against the Protestant Historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy and the Pope with the Anti-Christ.[5]


Historicists claim that prophetic interpretation reveals the entire course of history of the church from the close of the 1st century to the end of time.[6] Historicist interpretations have been criticized for inconsistencies, conjectures, and speculations. There is no agreement about various outlines of church history. Historicist readings of the Book of Revelation have been revised as new events occur and new figures emerge on the world scene.[7]

Perhaps your point is that the protestant reformation really was the work of "sects" and heretics as the RCC claimed - but then later as some Protestants began to recant their beliefs on that point - they became less heretical.

Perhaps that is your point? And your bring it up on a thread about Jesuits because... err..umm... you think that Jesuits would appreciate that idea?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Mama Kidogo]

oh I see its that dark-ages Jesuit-style name-calling thing again.

The pot meets the kettle in these dark ages.

"Annie" (1982) - Tomorrow - YouTube

 

[Mama Kidogo]

a lot of snipping done

......... the protestant reformation really was the work of "sects" and heretics..........

Gee when I snip the fire out of your post we can actually agree on something

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by BobRyan

a lot of snipping done

​

Gee when I snip the fire out of your post we can actually agree on something

Be careful what and how ya snip

Btw, do the SDAs practice circumcision like the MJ sect does?

Circumcision Lawsuit Makes Snipping Boys Look Downright Dangerous | The Stir

How did this practice even get started? I'll stop short of calling it barbaric, but really.
What the hell, circumcision?

....

http://www.christianforums.com/t7715971/
if you observe Circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.





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[MoreCoffee]

I guess BobRyan is keen to prove how many conspiracy theories Seventh Day Adventism teaches involve the Society of Jesus.

 

[mmksparbud]

My, my my--this has been an education I was sorely lacking in!! It is important to me to get any facts about what a denomination teaches from that denominations leaders itself rather than from the "anti's" or from the laity who half the time do not know what their church teaches. (That includes our own church!)
I did appreciate the quotes from the pope themselves explaining things.
This had been quite enlightening--now I understand why the books and movies portrayed the Jesuits as they did--had never researched that. This is about all I can handle for now--

And by the way--I do hope people understand that we are not anti-Catholic anymore than we are Anti-anyone--we are anti-theology of some of these denominations, as they are us, and I hope they, too, make the distinction, of being anti-theology and not anti-people in that denomination---Well--that was a mouthful--did I get that said right?? I'm sure someone will pick it apart!!

 

[MoreCoffee]

mmksparbud, did you like the SDA pastor preaching about Jesuit infiltration of the SDA church? Or do you count that pastor as 'laity' or as uneducated?

 

[Erose]

Is this another instance of the pejorative, anti-Catholic use of "dark ages?"

Not to mention that the Jesuits weren't even around during the period some call the Dark Ages. Go figure. Of course historians are beginning to realize that the Dark Ages weren't really so dark.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not to mention that the Jesuits weren't even around during the period some call the Dark Ages. Go figure. Of course historians are beginning to realize that the Dark Ages weren't really so dark.

It seems that dark period in history began with the fall of Rome in approx 455 AD.
Did that event fulfill any Bible prophecies?

After all, it was the Romans that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD as prophecied by Jesus.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The vial of divine wrath, which had been so long pouring out upon this devoted city was now emptying, and JERUSALEM, once "a praise in all the earth,".............
This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_(historiography)

The term "Dark Ages" originally was intended to denote the entire period between the fall of Rome and the Renaissance; the term "Middle Ages" has a similar motivation, implying an intermediate period between Classical Antiquity and the Modern era. In the 19th century scholars began to recognize the accomplishments made during the period, thereby challenging the image of the Middle Ages as a time of darkness and decay.[6].........

The second war with the Visigoths, led by king Alaric, in which they raided Greece, and then invaded Italy, culminating in the sack of Rome(410). The Visigoths eventually left Italy and founded the Visigothic Kingdom in southern Gaul and Hispania.

The second sack of Rome, this time by the Vandals (455).

.

 

[BobRyan]

It seems that dark period in history began with the fall of Rome in approx 455 AD.
Did that event fulfill any Bible prophecies?

After all, it was the Romans that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD as prophecied by Jesus.

...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_(historiography)

The term "Dark Ages" originally was intended to denote the entire period between the fall of Rome and the Renaissance; the term "Middle Ages" has a similar motivation, implying an intermediate period between Classical Antiquity and the Modern era. In the 19th century scholars began to recognize the accomplishments made during the period, thereby challenging the image of the Middle Ages as a time of darkness and decay.[6].........


.

Hey i am not saying that there is not someone out there still saying "hmmm dark ages - sounds like pretty good times to me".

But some of us don't do that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

mmksparbud, did you like the SDA pastor preaching about Jesuit infiltration of the SDA church? Or do you count that pastor as 'laity' or as uneducated?

is the Pope "laity" or just "uneducated" when he condemns the Jesuits?

in this case - Pope Clement XIV -

I gave the list of complaints that your own Pope identified.

I even short-snipped-summary posted a couple of them for those who do not like to read 3 or 4 paragraphs of information.

I hope that helps.

click here to see it again -- http://www.christianforums.com/t7684280-46/#post66033869

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
===== since clicking that link above - may be somewhat of a challenge -- here is some the info you would have seen there
=======================================================

How "odd that even the Pope" complained about the Jesuit oath.

"These dissensions and disputes arose sometimes concerning the nature of their vows, the
​

Beyond the "nature of their vows" there was the issue of morals and heterodoxy.

"Who would have thought that even these dispositions should prove ineffectual towards appeasing the cries and appeals against the Society? On the contrary, very violent disputes arose on all sides concerning the doctrine of the Society, which many represented as contrary to the orthodox faith and to sound morals. The dissensions among themselves, and with others, grew every day more animated; the accusations against the Society were multiplied without number, and especially with that insatiable avidity of temporal possessions with which it was reproached.
​

Pope Clement XIV goes on to say

[FONT=&quot] these very Companions of Jesus[/FONT] persuaded that there remained no other remedy to so great evils; and that this step was necessary in order to prevent the Christians from rising one against another, and from massacring each other in the very bosom of our common mother the Holy Church[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]
​

Compared that to "extinguish Jesuits forover" as Pope Clement said "by all the fullness of Apostolic power"???

recall --

News flash - the Pope himself extinguished the Jesuit order "forever" by "All the Apostolic power" that there is in the "seat of Peter" --

the fulness of our apostolical power, SUPPRESS AND ABOLISH THE SAID COMPANY:

Papal statement abolishing the Jesuit order – 1773. Clement XIV


"in the present case, we are determining upon the fate of a society classed among the mendicant orders, both by its institute and by its privileges; after a mature deliberation, we do, out of our certain knowledge, and the fulness of our apostolical power, SUPPRESS AND ABOLISH THE SAID COMPANY: we deprive it of all activity whatever
...
And to this end a member of the regular clergy, recommendable for his prudence and sound morals, shall be chosen to preside over and govern the said houses; so that the name of the Company shall be, and is, for ever extinguished and suppressed."

We are supposed to be "shocked' that an SDA pastor might ever in all of time said something non-affirming about Jesuits -- meanwhile we are supposed to ignore entirey the what the Pope said about the Jesuits -- blaming it all on this or that non-Catholic.

(And of course using lots of helpful "heretic" -- "heterodox" -- "sect" -- 'meany' terms while blaming the non-Catholic for paying attention to anything negative that a Pope said about Jesuits)

Amazing!!!

But... not saying that some will not go for that sort of thing.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[MoreCoffee]

is the Pope "laity" or just "uneducated" when he condemns the Jesuits?
...

That would depend on which pope you're asking about; some were kind of political appointees more than merit chosen.

I like your multicoloured posts with heaps of underlining and bold text, it reminds me of modern art work, all colour and shapes without much to catch the eye as a recognisable object. Keep up the good work, I may frame some of them as abstract art and sell them

 

[mmksparbud]

mmksparbud, did you like the SDA pastor preaching about Jesuit infiltration of the SDA church? Or do you count that pastor as 'laity' or as uneducated?

Quite honestly, I listened to the 1st 15 min. of that--and it took 141/2 min to get to the first mention of Jesuit. All that first part was aimed at SDA's who are not following the faith--and I've heard that assault many times over the years, and the complaining about the leadership not leading correctly. There have been whole ministries come up based solely on bashing the leaders of the church for not doing something--I loose track of all their complaints! I am very careful about what "SDA" pastors, or preachers, I listen to. I prefer to investigate who they are before forming an opinion. I learned that the hard way when some unscrupulous person sent out a video talking about some former Pope who had a brother that was an SDA and wouldn't acknowledge him--or some such thing--totally bogus.
Took care of an old SDA couple who fell for some "against the leadership" preacher and I refused to listen to him, which upset them. But I didn't see what they did--I saw a very snappily dressed, slick guy, quite arrogant who later ended up wanting the tithe sent to him instead of the church. And after loosing most of his following for shady dealings, repented and tried to get another following going--which never happened.

Coffee--I will listen to the rest of that guy later. I can only handle so much at a time! I assume the rest is complaining that the leadership is infiltrated by Jesuits--including our teachers---wait--wait--I remember something now--An SDA college girl came home talking about the college professors being closet Jesuits--I totally forgot about that. It was mentioned once or twice and nothing more was said. I was more upset about the college oprofessor who was a bigot and always graded the papers of the blacks much lower than the whites--that really burned me--it was her first exposer to racism (she's from Haiti).------
Now, are you saying that there can be no such thing happen as our ranks being infiltrated by closet Jesuits being bent on teaching our college youths fallacies??---Why not--we have college professors teaching our youths all sorts of things that are not SDA--or so goes the rumor. But then, I believe there are some Catholics who protest that Catholic priests are teaching Catholic seminary students things that are not very Catholic---let me guess---The militant SDA's have infiltrated the Catholic seminaries and brainwashing their youth----news at 11!---And did you know Beyonce is a Satanist??---She has flashed "the sign!!"
Our borders are not being crossed by South, Central Americans and Mexicans--they are Muslims who have learned Spanish (what?--can you tell the difference?)--No, wait--that is true!!--Mexicans don't eat felafel and all Latins love PORK--so watch out--if you see a Latin abstaining from Pork, they're either Muslim or---- SDA (oh yah, maybe Jewish)

 

[MoreCoffee]

mmksparbud. I didn't watch it all the way through myself, and I usually do watch an entire video clip before posting it but I lost interest after about 35 minutes I think ... I don't blame you for losing interest too.

 

[BobRyan]

Quite honestly, I listened to the 1st 15 min. of that--and it took 141/2 min to get to the first mention of Jesuit. A

it is much easier to find Pope Clement XIV's mention of the Jesuits.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

mmksparbud, did you like the SDA pastor preaching about Jesuit infiltration of the SDA church? Or do you count that pastor as 'laity' or as uneducated?

is the Pope "laity" or just "uneducated" when he condemns the Jesuits?

in this case - Pope Clement XIV -

That would depend on which pope you're asking about; some were kind of political appointees more than merit chosen.

I like your multicoloured posts

Yes - which Pope Clement XIV are we talking about - that is a good question.

And as you point out - the "unbroken line" of "political appointees" and worse in some cases. But that does not mean they did not have some very well behaved ones as well.

And thanks for the muticolor - since your use of green guarantees that every response back to you can always include your green with the response in black and white even if nothing where highlighted or underlined.

I guess we all knew that tiny little nit.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[MoreCoffee]

is the Pope "laity" or just "uneducated" when he condemns the Jesuits?

in this case - Pope Clement XIV - Yes - which Pope Clement XIV are we talking about - that is a good question.

And thanks for the muticolor - since your use of green guarantees that every response back to you will always be a muilti-color green and black even if nothing where highlighted or underlined.

I guess we all knew that tiny little nit.

in Christ,

Bob

You know it is not quite true that my Green type transfers to a quote. Surely you've noticed that in your posts if you have a quote from me the quote is just plain old black type. It's one of the marvels of setting your text properties in the CF "CP User" tab

But if you could hold back on the bold and underline and heaps of different colours your posts would get read more often by me, as it is I skip through the multicoloured labyrinth you create with some of those long posts of yours. It isn't that I dislike reading it is just that the colours and bold and underline and even changes in text size distract too much for me to bother with serious reading.