Why are most Christians so accepting of magic

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Can you link a few examples of "real" witchcraft and sorcery. You get extra points if the links do not point to Africa or Papua New Guinea.

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Numbers 23:23 I'll refer here to wiki Wikipedia - Witchcraft

Noting the common usage of divination and cursing:

"Historically, and in most traditional cultures worldwide - notably in Africa and in traditional Native American communities - the term is commonly associated with those who use metaphysical means to cause harm to the innocent. In the modern era, especially among younger, urban and white peoples in America and Europe, the word may more commonly refer to benign or positive practices of modern paganism, where it may refer to a divinatory or healing role."

tryphena rose said:

In so much of our media and entertainment such as books, television shows, movies, video games and even music, magic is something that isn't used sparingly throughout the list of "creative" ideas to the world. In fact, it's getting harder to deter away from entertainment that doesn't contain some type of occult idea that defies the Truths of God.

When I first became a Christian, this was a big conviction for me as I wasn't into practicing anything occultic nor did I even believe it was true, however I was influenced by occult ideas based off of the media I was consuming, whether I had known it or not. As this was one of my very first convictions and I was strongly led by the Holy Spirit to turn from these things, I quickly saw how this wasn't the case for a majority of others. When things like Disney and Harry Potter are so popular, even among professing Christians, I'm left wondering how can this be so?

Talk to any born again believer who has come out of the new age movement and they understand how serious this is, because they've seen how far too real the deception of the enemy is to be lenient with these kinds of ideas, even at the expense of their own pleasure. In Revelation 21:8 the Bible says that sorcerers will have their part in the lake of fire. If this is taken seriously by God to include these kinds of people in the lake of fire, then why aren't the very ideas and practices that will put these people in the lake of fire, taken more seriously among Christians?

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Relax. It's just entertainment and known to be fiction. The only problem with these movies is that these days nearly all of them have been easter egging or shoe horning random SJW/Leftist politics. The SJW messages that the media has been inserting is more of a concern (an actual one) because this one is influential.

It isn't good to be this up tight especially with something as harmless as seeing "super powers" or non-christian inspired fictional works.

Artists have always had such imaginations that even before movies and tv, they would express these imaginations through writing or paintings. They aren't teaching occults or being "satan worshipers" they are just artists who have an imagination and just love to create worlds and stories that are not like ours.

I am writing and hoping to build my own anime/comic series one day. The characters have super powers, and many of it is inspired by myths, legends, christian-mythos, to even conspiracy theories.

tryphena rose said:

In so much of our media and entertainment such as books, television shows, movies, video games and even music, magic is something that isn't used sparingly throughout the list of "creative" ideas to the world. In fact, it's getting harder to deter away from entertainment that doesn't contain some type of occult idea that defies the Truths of God.

When I first became a Christian, this was a big conviction for me as I wasn't into practicing anything occultic nor did I even believe it was true, however I was influenced by occult ideas based off of the media I was consuming, whether I had known it or not. As this was one of my very first convictions and I was strongly led by the Holy Spirit to turn from these things, I quickly saw how this wasn't the case for a majority of others. When things like Disney and Harry Potter are so popular, even among professing Christians, I'm left wondering how can this be so?

Talk to any born again believer who has come out of the new age movement and they understand how serious this is, because they've seen how far too real the deception of the enemy is to be lenient with these kinds of ideas, even at the expense of their own pleasure. In Revelation 21:8 the Bible says that sorcerers will have their part in the lake of fire. If this is taken seriously by God to include these kinds of people in the lake of fire, then why aren't the very ideas and practices that will put these people in the lake of fire, taken more seriously among Christians?

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Hi Tryphena Rose,

[I'm giving a modifed version of something I shared with another individual or two at an earlier time here on CF, since your question is similar ...]

I've had a lifetime of casual interest in sci-fi, superhero, and/or classic horror media (movies, books, music), so I can understand where you're coming from in asking this. For the most part, modern Fantasy/Sci-fi/Horror has typically been laced and inspired by non-christian philosophies, so it isn't surprising to encounter elements in these media that reference or actually represent occult or humanistic qualities.

Depending on the person who writes each specific script or song, there can be obvious displays of un-christian, spiritual junk that pop up in these media, things at which I can only cringe. Obviously, this doesn't happen in every comic-book, novel, album, or t.v. show all the time; some specific books or single episodes of various shows are more or less simply stories about good versus evil, an example being the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

But, as you are already aware of, the underlying inspiration of many of these forms of entertainment is often less than praiseworthy. So, I would just say that if you feel that a particular story, song, or video goes beyond an attempt to "just" present entertainment, and it seems to strongly suggest that you should consider it's non-Christian moral viewpoint (assuming its some occult or humanistic "stuff"), then you may want to consider ditching that book or show.

If, on the other hand, you can read or watch, and you don't really sense that some non-christian philosophy or ungodly approach to life is being touted too strongly to the viewer (or listener), then just go with what you feel for entertainment purposes and keep an open conscience about it for further Christian reflection.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

tryphena rose said:

It may be great by worldly standards, but not by Godly standards. Final Fantasy VII doesn't honor God in the slightest, and this is my point. It contains a wide array of spiritual aspects like the lifestream which gives life to all on the planet, Sephiroth wanting to absorb the energy of the lifestream in order to become like a god, magic materia which is basically just casting spells and more. You see, it's the spiritual truths that lie behind the ideas that is my problem, not necessarily the game itself. I, like you, enjoyed Final Fantasy VII a lot and it was a big part of my childhood, but as a Christian I can't turn a blind eye and let negative spiritual influences into my life if I'm to live by Godly standards.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2

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You really need to lighten up because "christian views" like these are unhealthy IMO. You are putting such negative fears over things because of simply not having any christian messages in them.

FFIX and IV were my favorites... and yes I will buying the remake.

tryphena rose said:

My question for you both then would be how do we draw a line in the sand on what we deem good fiction and bad fiction when it comes to the occult? Wouldn't this be a good instance of relying on our own understanding of things? Just because the world labels these things fictional, doesn't make them any less real. The world also calls God nothing but a fairy-tale, but again, it doesn't make Him any less real.

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I have made this same argument with others before. They think that because it is in a fantasy setting, that the sin of magic or sorcery does not exist as being bad like it is bad in our world. I have tried to compare it to them watching porn (Which are the sins of adultery and fornication) and they say that it is not the same thing because the sin is actually being recorded. But I said what if it was a cartoon? Would it make it any better? It would still be promoting the sins of fornication and adultery. They really did not have an answer or a good response in reply (as far as I can recall).

I believe we live in a culture that worships entertainment, and so it is hard for them to break away from such things. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior in 1992. I was on fire for the Lord and told everyone I could about Him and wanted to live for him. I was a young teenager at the time, but the idea of putting away watching all movies, etc. was too much for me to grasp. Granted, I did throw away my comic books out on the street because of the many sinful things within them. I was on fire for preaching God's Word, but I did not give up entirely everything like movie watching. The world of entertainment was still ingrained within me. In time, I started to think I could be rich and also serve the Lord, but this led me towards more worldly thinking and less towards the thinking of the ways of God. I always believed in Jesus as my Savior and wanted to lead others to Him, but I was caught up in the things of the world. When I rededicated my life to following Christ in 2010, and I started to really study my Bible and to always discuss it with other believers. This was the time within my faith where God started to prune out some of the bad things in my life. After I rededicated my life to Christ, I could not watch things like Harry Potter, Doctor Strange, and or horror films, etc. But I still watched secular sinful movies (Including the Avengers). In October 2016 (after I watched Luke Cage the TV Series), I put away all sinful secular movie watching like Star Trek, Marvel comics films, etc. altogether. I could not take all the sinful things that was being pushed upon me anymore. It was becoming too much for my soul to bare. Once I put away my secular sinful movie watching, I was able to see them for what they were. For many years of my life I remember enjoying to read about a character named "Daredevil" in Marvel comics. I even enjoyed the TV series a lot (back when it came out). But when I put away all sinful movies out of my life (Which was not easy), I was able to see that I was watching a show about a guy who dresses up as the devil. At the time, I could not see it. But after putting away the junk, I could then see.

I now only watch Christian films that inspire a person to want to follow the Lord, and educational nature documentaries. But a Christian still has to be careful. My wife and I watched a TV show called "When Calls the Heart" (that is labeled as Christian) and it started off in a good way with them quoting Scripture and them having a minister character, etc., but now on the show that has stopped and they have promoted magic very subtly in one of their episodes, and they promoted that the sin of lying is okay. So I told my wife, I am not watching that show anymore, and she agreed that it was not good to watch it, as well. So we have to remain ever vigilant on what we watch as believers.

Anyways, there are good Christian films to watch as an alternative. If you are interested, here are a list of Christian films that are my top favorite that I believe inspire a person to follow the Lord.

What Christian Movies Do You Find To Be The Most Rewatchable?

I included trailers and poster artwork, and where to rent these films in post #2 and post #3.

I hope that what I said here helps;
May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you today.

Sabertooth said:

Because they haven't met the God of the Old Testament. (He's the same God in both testaments.) The New Testament has relatively little to say about sorcery & divination, so NT-only Christians mistake it for a non-issue.

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In the Book of Acts Paul was teaching about Jesus in Ephesus. God approved of his teaching and miracles started to happen. The people brought their books about the occult and magic and burned them. Magic, deception, illusion, lies, errors, omissions and fraud are all wrong. The truth is more difficult to find than fiction.

Acts 19 (World English Bible - Public Domain)

11 God worked special miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and the evil spirits went out. 13 But some of the itinerant Jews, exorcists, took on themselves to invoke over those who had the evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, “We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches.” 14 There were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did this.

15 The evil spirit answered, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know, but who are you?” 16 The man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 This became known to all, both Jews and Greeks, who lived at Ephesus. Fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18 Many also of those who had believed came, confessing, and declaring their deeds. 19 Many of those who practiced magical arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. They counted their price, and found it to be fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord was growing and becoming mighty.

@tryphena rose

You will get a lot of people speaking against you if you speak against their entertainment (of which they love). Some are on the fence (like I was), but if people truly are interested in following the Lord, they will in time put away these dark things out of their life. Everyone has to learn to do this on their own with the Lord. I am not sure a sermon or simply telling others alone is going to convince them. They have to either stumble into sin repeatedly from watching these kinds of films, or they will get fed up with all the sin that is being pushed upon them that they will not want to watch such things anymore. Every faithful believer grows at a different rate or pace. It takes time. Some never want to give up their love for the things of this world. For them, I am afraid for. But only the Lord knows who they will be in the end. A person can repent of such things on their last day. Granted, a person should not say to themselves that they will give them up on the last day they are going to die or anything. Nobody can trick God in regards to their faithfulness to Him. But I see this as picking up one's cross and denying oneself so as to be a follower of Jesus and not a follower of ourselves.

Blessings to you in the Lord this fine day.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

Paul says we are to avoid in having any appearance of evil. So if we are watching shows that we think are not sinful, even if they are have certain sins within them, and our kids see us watching them, they can be influenced to do those sins. So if they see us watching a show about a guy who does drugs, they may want to do the same. If they see us watch a show that promotes magic, they may want to do real magic. If they see us watch a show about a guy dressing up as a devil, they may want to dress up as the devil, and look evil all the time (dress in black, get tattoos, get a ton of piercings, etc.).

Side Note:

I did not know somebody had a Daredevil avatar in this thread when I wrote post #45. Not sure if they added their new avatar before or after I posted. In either case, it was my life experience as a part of God talking to my heart. It is my testimony of God working in my life.

Update: They just changed their avatar so as not to display Daredevil now.
I am glad.

May God's good ways be upon you all in the Lord this fine day.

tryphena rose said:

When I first became a Christian, this was a big conviction for me as I wasn't into practicing anything occultic nor did I even believe it was true, however I was influenced by occult ideas based off of the media I was consuming, whether I had known it or not.

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You are predisposed to being influenced by and doing what you see......without thinking about it first. For you, it would be wise to limit what you consume..... Just like it is wise for a recovering alcoholic to stay away from wine...

But just become one person is predisposed to alcoholism.....doesnt mean that everyone should stay away from a glass of wine........only you should.....and for good reason.

I can watch a movie and see a nice funny movie that I can get off my mind the next hour...... you could watch the same movie and see demon worship and attacks against God and it could weigh heavily on your mind for weeks.....and may even get you to try the things in the movie.

So what is the solution? Tell everyone to stop watch movies? No......YOU stop watching them....for this is an issue for you....and not everyone.

Every man is tempted of their own personal lust....not the lust to others...

tryphena rose said:

You can take horribly dark shows like American Horror Story, Supernatural and even lucifer and all these things would be labeled fiction but are complete abominations when it comes to the Truth of God.

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These are movies I havent seen.... But your topic interest me, therefore I must go watch these shows now to be able to keep up. Shows that were outside of my awareness until you brought them in.

Job well done? If I were to watch and all the bad stuff you are talking about here, happens to me.....I end up in that lake of fire meant for people who watch these movie...... Who would you say lead me to that fate?

Kaon said:

If you are ignorant of magick and the supernatural, you should consider yourself lucky, even blessed.

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God, the Christ, angels are all supernatural.....spiritual...... Why would you consider anyone lucky if they are ignorant of these things?

Kaon said:

Some of us wish we could be ignorant of this other side of life, and I personally get a bit jealous of people who can so easily claim the supernatural, and experiences of it are fiction or fake. I get it.

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I heard this before in the OT. The God spoke directly to the children of israel and they became afraid. So they asked that God only speak through someone else from then on.

Kaon said:

However is known that there are entities in powerful places that do believe in magick, and use it on those that are both cognizant and ignorant of its power.

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If there are entities that can affect people that are ignorant.......why would you desire for them to remain ignorant and affected?

Kaon said:

But, you can't give proof that someone is under a spell if they don't believe in magick...

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So you desire for other to remain ignorant of the spiritual and then just take the word of one who isnt as truth?

Jonathan Walkerin said:

How is this "known" Got a link ?

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A link? Are you absolutely serious?

No, there is likely no link that will show you magical rituals that produce results substantive enough for you to believe it.


I should have said it is know among some people. Clearly as I alluded to before, someone who doesn't believe in magic can't recognize a spell - even if it is in the face. So, someone who doesn't believe in magic would have no clue how, or where to look.

As I read this thread it upset me to see people talking about watching Bewitched, what occult shows or books were "a big part of my childhood", the occult symbols in Disney movies, etc. The big red flag that pops up in all of that is the job that Christian parents should be doing in instilling in their children that this stuff wrong, demonic, against the Word of God, and leads them down a dark path. A parent has the responsibility to say "turn off that show" or "put that book down". Any book, movie, CD, etc. that our kids (or even my husband and I) wanted to watch or bring into our home had to pass the Philipppians 4:8 test: "Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy - think on these things." There were actually brand new Christmas gifts that ended up in the trash because they violated this verse. My son's second grade teacher (a born again Christian) got upset with me because she asked me if I would be upset if she read Harry Potter books to the class. I told her yes and quoted Philippians 4:8 to her. Even as a Christian she wanted to read those books to the class because they were popular and she didn't like my answer. As adults we make our own judgments and decisions about these matters, but it's a whole lot easier if we are well grounded spiritually as children. My children, now parents themselves, use that same verse with their own children as a teaching tool.

rainingviolets said:

As I read this thread it upset me to see people talking about watching Bewitched, what occult shows or books were "a big part of my childhood", the occult symbols in Disney movies, etc. The big red flag that pops up in all of that is the job that Christian parents should be doing in instilling in their children that this stuff wrong, demonic, against the Word of God, and leads them down a dark path. A parent has the responsibility to say "turn off that show" or "put that book down". Any book, movie, CD, etc. that our kids (or even my husband and I) wanted to watch or bring into our home had to pass the Philipppians 4:8 test: "Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy - think on these things." There were actually brand new Christmas gifts that ended up in the trash because they violated this verse. My son's second grade teacher (a born again Christian) got upset with me because she asked me if I would be upset if she read Harry Potter books to the class. I told her yes and quoted Philippians 4:8 to her. Even as a Christian she wanted to read those books to the class because they were popular and she didn't like my answer. As adults we make our own judgments and decisions about these matters, but it's a whole lot easier if we are well grounded spiritually as children. My children, now parents themselves, use that same verse with their own children as a teaching tool.

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Do you know that you, yourself, violate this verse when you look for something negative in everything you watch, read, or receive? It seems that the verse states not to do this.

RaymondG said:

God, the Christ, angels are all supernatural.....spiritual...... Why would you consider anyone lucky if they are ignorant of these things?

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I am not talking about that side of the coin. I am talking about the other side of the coin en Christians ignore - like demons, principalities, archons, fallen angels and other interdimensional entities.

It is "luck" to be ignorant of these things because in this case it may be bliss. It is a luxury to be able to ignore the reality of the spirit world - even if it is ignorance and denial of the Most High God. Most entities in the Creation don't have the luxury to completely ignore the reality around them - even exchange it for something else.

I heard this before in the OT. The God spoke directly to the children of israel and they became afraid. So they asked that God only speak through someone else from then on.

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I think every entity trembles when they hear the Word of God Himself - which is what the OT prophets and patriarchs heard when they heard Someone speak directly on behalf of the Most High God. Israel asked for men to do things the Most High God had planned for us because of ignorance. They chose to ignore His statutes and His commandments, and were ignorant to the degeneracy of man when they begged for men to do things the Most High God had set up for them.

If there are entities that can affect people that are ignorant.......why would you desire for them to remain ignorant and affected?

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They may affect people who are ignorant, but it would be more detrimental for entities to substantiate their existence against a "well reasoned, logical argument" already invested in by the host human. It is much more logical to leave people alone who already (unconsciously) work in your favor. This isn't such a sophisticated tactic; humans do this to each other all of the time.

The ignorant will always reach a point at which the ignorance becomes critical: and then, it is better for the entity to stay "as is" than it is for the entity to start the arduous psychological journey of coming out of ignorance - something that could do even more irreparable damage.

People can barely handle the fact that ghosts exist; most people would collapse under the idea of the fullness of their surroundings.

So you desire for other to remain ignorant of the spiritual and then just take the word of one who isnt as truth?

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Did I say that?

I alluded to the fact that it is a luxury to be ignorant of the spiritual realm. I don't regret my own knowledge or experience.

Individuals choose to remain ignorant; my want is irrelevant, and there is no such thing as my truth. The Truth Himself is available to everyone; it should be an immediate reaction to compare what anyone says to the Truth - including angels and such.

rainingviolets said:

As I read this thread it upset me to see people talking about watching Bewitched, what occult shows or books were "a big part of my childhood", the occult symbols in Disney movies, etc. The big red flag that pops up in all of that is the job that Christian parents should be doing in instilling in their children that this stuff wrong, demonic, against the Word of God, and leads them down a dark path. A parent has the responsibility to say "turn off that show" or "put that book down". Any book, movie, CD, etc. that our kids (or even my husband and I) wanted to watch or bring into our home had to pass the Philipppians 4:8 test: "Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy - think on these things." There were actually brand new Christmas gifts that ended up in the trash because they violated this verse. My son's second grade teacher (a born again Christian) got upset with me because she asked me if I would be upset if she read Harry Potter books to the class. I told her yes and quoted Philippians 4:8 to her. Even as a Christian she wanted to read those books to the class because they were popular and she didn't like my answer. As adults we make our own judgments and decisions about these matters, but it's a whole lot easier if we are well grounded spiritually as children. My children, now parents themselves, use that same verse with their own children as a teaching tool.

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Passive acceptance works for magic(ians) also. It is very effective to get people to participate in rituals they believe are part of everyday life.

That's exactly my point. We don't watch or read the items and the only reason they are received is because someone else gifts them to us. I know Harry Potter is demonic because of all the advertising everywhere. I don't need to read it to know what it's about. The same with popular movies and books like Hunger Games. With everyone talking about them you don't need to pick up the book to know what it is about. The stuff that goes in the trash is what was given to us by aunts and cousins.

rainingviolets said:

That's exactly my point. We don't watch or read the items and the only reason they are received is because someone else gifts them to us. I know Harry Potter is demonic because of all the advertising everywhere. I don't need to read it to know what it's about. The same with popular movies and books like Hunger Games. With everyone talking about them you don't need to pick up the book to know what it is about. The stuff that goes in the trash is what was given to us by aunts and cousins.

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Well, so much for the old proverb about not judging a book by its cover ... !

rainingviolets said:

That's exactly my point. We don't watch or read the items and the only reason they are received is because someone else gifts them to us. I know Harry Potter is demonic because of all the advertising everywhere. I don't need to read it to know what it's about. The same with popular movies and books like Hunger Games. With everyone talking about them you don't need to pick up the book to know what it is about. The stuff that goes in the trash is what was given to us by aunts and cousins.

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The danger of modernity and discourse (even post-modernism) is that one does need to "immerse" one's self in as many ways a possible to exist as a vindicated source of information.

But, you don't need other humans to tell you what is right and wrong - the Most High God has already put it into us. We work to ignore the spark of wisdom He has given us to navigate this plane of existence, and we exchange it for degeneracy (human "logic"). It is highly sophisticated idol worship.