Why are Christians living like the rest of the world?

[seekthetruth909]

Marke said: "When we can start walking the walk inside the Church that Jesus envisioned together, the effects will spill out into the community and every one will be attracted to those who follow the gospel of truth contained in NT scripture as was envisioned."

I'd agree with this statement if the world didn't hold Christians to an impossibly high standard. Once the world knows you claim to be a Christian, the bar is autoamtically set so high, that no one but Christ Himself could attain that goal. When we as Christians fall in our walk with the Lord and sin, and the world sees it, all that does is confirm in the mind of others that we are not "true Christians" and don't practice what we preach. Why are we held to such a high standard by people who are no different than us when it comes to sinful living? Because it's a way for them to justify their unjustifiable behavior.

.

You are right in saying that none of us come remotely close to the standard of Christ. We are all sinners. The problem is Christians should be lights of the world. I have a friend who is a Christian who says she prefers to hang out with non-Christians because they are nicer. When I first visited this website I was told by a few people that in the non-Christian section people were a little nicer. I don’t know if I agree completely with this, but shouldn’t Christian standards be a little higher.

Barna released statistics a few years ago showing that divorce was higher for Christians in the American Bible belt than non-Christians. Does that mean if you are single you should avoid marring a Christian because they are more selfish than non-Christians? The bible says God hates divorce but many Christians are not willing to work out there differences. Why is the divorce rate higher for Christians? Shouldn’t it be at least a little lower? Are we all just talking the talk but not willing to walk the walk in Christ?

If we are truly filled with the fruits of The Holy Spirit shouldn’t we be a little different than non-Christians?

God Bless

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)

 

[Nadiine]

You are right in saying that none of us come remotely close to the standard of Christ. We are all sinners. The problem is Christians should be lights of the world. I have a friend who is a Christian who says she prefers to hang out with non-Christians because they are nicer. When I first visited this website I was told by a few people that in the non-Christian section people were a little nicer. I don’t know if I agree completely with this, but shouldn’t Christian standards be a little higher.

Barna released statistics a few years ago showing that divorce was higher for Christians in the American Bible belt than non-Christians. Does that mean if you are single you should avoid marring a Christian because they are more selfish than non-Christians? The bible says God hates divorce but many Christians are not willing to work out there differences. Why is the divorce rate higher for Christians? Shouldn’t it be at least a little lower? Are we all just talking the talk but not willing to walk the walk in Christ?

If we are truly filled with the fruits of The Holy Spirit shouldn’t we be a little different than non-Christians?

God Bless

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)

I have 2 points in reply.

1) Remember Paul's letter to the Corinthians - they were acting carnal, yet they WERE God's people. Granted, it was in ignorance as the NT church was new under Grace and they weren't fully educated in the Lord after Law. (infants).

2) NOT ALL WHO CLAIM TO KNOW GOD, KNOW GOD!!
Mat. 7:21-23 [Jesus]....'depart from Me, you who work at/practice iniquity, I NEVER KNEW YOU'.

If you know those horrific statistics of the latest Seminary Graduates (ready to come & be your church Elder ), you also know that when you actually do more in depth Questioning of their beliefs of God & the scriptures, THEY DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE CONSTITUTES A CHRISTIAN IS.
Truth is "subjective/relative" to them; whatever they believe, makes it true -for them.

ie. They profess God with their mouths, but their hearts are far from Him.
"having a FORM of Godliness, yet denying the power thereof".

Modern, liberal society is creating fake, fairweather "Christians". People use the name, then change the definition of it to suit their own personal beliefs.

Bottom line, they reject the REAL God of the Bible, they reject many bible verses they just don't like... cherry picking the ones they DO like (all becuz the bible has errors in it, so they can decide what's true & false on their own) to make up their own god that they're comfy with.

IDOLATRY​

*the wheat & tares grow together till harvest*

 

[Harlan Norris]

God's order for worship in the OT was completely "commercialized". They had one main temple.
It didn't fail or go wrong. When Christianity started, it was in CONTRAST to what those in the large temple of God were continuing to promote: "LAW" rather than grace.

New Christians were often persecuted & started out in homes, but that doesn't mean the Bible says you must STAY in homes/small buildings & not GROW. Does it? If so, please show me the scriptures that say this so I can change my views.

I can tell you from personal knowledge what happens in small home gatherings.
Someone opens their home up, you get a good teacher, he teaches, and more and more Christians start showing up. Soon enough, the house is too small to hold the people that come.

SO THEY MOVE SOMEWHERE TO ACCOMODATE THE GROWING NUMBERS.
This is HOW churches grow & spread. I can't figure out how growth is "BAD"??? or leads to a majority of corrupted churches?

Growth is good, the KEY is, if your Pastor/teacher can handle such growth.
If not, then it's possible that person was never called by God to be His servant in Eldership!

It isn't that the CHURCH/growth makes them fall, it's that they themselves have personal/spiritual issues which they haven't dealt with.

I have to disagree on this line of criticism with church size. It's not an automatic indicator of failure, corruption or compromise necessarily.

Do you go into church and find a table or group of tables and racks,filled with items to buy? It makes no differnce whether they appearantly have a Godly purpose or not. Here is scripture...Matt;12:12, And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but you have made it a den of theives...Church is about God,not money. Good works come from faith in God,not money....Many of the missives sold in the church I mentioned in my last post,were in direct opposition to the gospel.These told of those we should scorn for one reason or another. Yet scripture tells us not to judge or we will be judged. Three of the four churches I attended skipped over this directive,or,simply said that it didn't apply to their particular judgement. Then there was the politics. Focus on the family,handouts about judges or politicians we should be voting for. One church I attended actually had set up a trip for highschool teens to go to the national guard base near me,to see an F-16 up close. You don't suppose there'd be a recruiter there do you? These things have nothing to do with the gospel or the commandments of Jesus. In fact they are the exact opposite of them. On judgement day, we will be judged according to the gospel,and the commandments of Jesus. Jesus himself said so in the sermon on the mount. Matt; 5 through 7. At the end of which, Jesus says in Matt; 7:24, Threfore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house on a rock: 25, And the rain decended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26, And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27, And the rain decended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it....As time has passed the church has strayed. Looking at the bottom line, it has turned away from the gospel,which will not allow looking at the bottom line. Each of us individually,should seach their heart to see if they do or do not follow the gospel as a matter of principle. I believe it's important to seek the company of other Christians. But it is even more important to live as Jesus has commanded. So, if one's church does not encourage adhereance to the gospel or the commandments of Jesus. That one is better off leaving,and looking elsewhere.

 

[Eryk]

Then there was the politics. Focus on the family, handouts about judges or politicians we should be voting for.

It might be a little difficult to find a church that doesn't abominate their own pulpit with political directives, but it can be done. We're encouraged to vote at my church, but that's about it. Our senior pastor said that the "culture war" distorts the message of the Cross, and I sat there thinking, "my MAN!"

 

[Eryk]

Hmm...

From Christianity Today:

This idea that Christians are just as likely to divorce as secular folks is not correct if we factor church attendance into our thinking. Churchgoing evangelical Protestants, churchgoing Catholics, and churchgoing mainline Protestants are all significantly less likely to divorce.

How much less likely?

I estimate between 35 and 50 percent less likely than Americans who attend church just nominally, just once or twice a year, or who don't attend church at all. It is true that people who say they've had a born-again experience are about as likely to divorce as people who are completely secular. But if you look at this through the lens of church attendance, you see a very different story.​

 

[Harlan Norris]

It might be a little difficult to find a church that doesn't abominate their own pulpit with political directives, but it can be done. We're encouraged to vote at my church, but that's about it. Our senior pastor said that the "culture war" distorts the message of the Cross, and I sat there thinking, "my MAN!"

Amen to that! I believe that I also have found a church with sound doctrin . So far not any words of judgement, except that we sould each of us individually judge,and judge often,our own walk. No politics either, in any form as yet. Not from the pulpit,not from the congregation. Nothing for sale there either,no books no handouts.

 

[ChrisCountryGirl]

I feel that some Christians are living like the rest of the world because they don't want to part from their "sins" but want to be Chrisitans.

 

[seekthetruth909]

Do you go into church and find a table or group of tables and racks,filled with items to buy? It makes no differnce whether they appearantly have a Godly purpose or not. Here is scripture...Matt;12:12, And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but you have made it a den of theives...Church is about God,not money. Good works come from faith in God,not money....Many of the missives sold in the church I mentioned in my last post,were in direct opposition to the gospel.

There is nothing wrong with selling items in a church because a church is not really a church. While it is true that Jesus was angry with the people selling things in the Temple of God, you have to remember when Christ was alive the temple/church was the house of God. When Christ died on the cross the New Covenant began and the temple/church/building was abolished for Christians. The new temple is inside each follower of Christ. Our bodies are the temple. If we don’t take care of our bodies we defile the temple.
The modern day church is nothing more than a building where Christians meet, so selling things there is no different than selling from a store or from your home.There are many problems with the modern church but church sales are not in conflict with scipture since the temple is now in all of us.

1 Peter 2:5 “you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.”

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

 

[Nadiine]

Do you go into church and find a table or group of tables and racks,filled with items to buy? It makes no differnce whether they appearantly have a Godly purpose or not. Here is scripture...Matt;12:12, And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but you have made it a den of theives...Church is about God,not money. Good works come from faith in God,not money....Many of the missives sold in the church I mentioned in my last post,were in direct opposition to the gospel.These told of those we should scorn for one reason or another. Yet scripture tells us not to judge or we will be judged. Three of the four churches I attended skipped over this directive,or,simply said that it didn't apply to their particular judgement. Then there was the politics. Focus on the family,handouts about judges or politicians we should be voting for. One church I attended actually had set up a trip for highschool teens to go to the national guard base near me,to see an F-16 up close. You don't suppose there'd be a recruiter there do you? These things have nothing to do with the gospel or the commandments of Jesus. In fact they are the exact opposite of them.

I'm sorry, my eyes have a problem reading any further right now, but in reply to these...

I've heard pastors teach about what the moneychangers were doing at the Temple grounds which Jesus drove out - they were CHEATING the people with the sacrifices they brought.
They'de RESELL animals & charge double - they were ripping the people off.
THUS: "DEN OF THIEVES". Items sold rightfully aren't STEALING or CHEATING.

I see nothing wrong with offering books, tapes, movies, Bibles for a price. WHO CAN SELL A BIBLE IF NOT THE CHURCH?? Do seculars have to sell Bible's or else it's a sin for us?

Politics, I see nothing wrong w/ a church encouraging CHRISTIANS to vote in a democratic society. So what, they go on a social field trip as a group to see F-16's.

It sounds like you may be the one judging others?

Everybody has a complaint I guess.

 

[seekthetruth909]

I feel that some Christians are living like the rest of the world because they don't want to part from their "sins" but want to be Chrisitans.

Excellent point!

 

[seekthetruth909]

Hmm...


From Christianity Today:

This idea that Christians are just as likely to divorce as secular folks is not correct if we factor church attendance into our thinking. Churchgoing evangelical Protestants, churchgoing Catholics, and churchgoing mainline Protestants are all significantly less likely to divorce.​

How much less likely?​

I estimate between 35 and 50 percent less likely than Americans who attend church just nominally, just once or twice a year, or who don't attend church at all. It is true that people who say they've had a born-again experience are about as likely to divorce as people who are completely secular. But if you look at this through the lens of church attendance, you see a very different story.​

Here is some info on the topic.
God Bless

Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significently higher than for other faith groups, and for Atheists and Agnostics.
George Barna, president and founder of Barna Research Group, commented:
"While it may be alarming to discover that born again Christians are more likely than others to experience a divorce, that pattern has been in place for quite some time. Even more disturbing, perhaps, is that when those individuals experience a divorce many of them feel their community of faith provides rejection rather than support and healing. But the research also raises questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families. The ultimate responsibility for a marriage belongs to the husband and wife, but the high incidence of divorce within the Christian community challenges the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriages."
According to the Dallas Morning News, a Dallas TX newspaper, the national study "raised eyebrows, sowed confusion, [and] even brought on a little holy anger." This caused George Barna to write a letter to his supporters, saying that he is standing by his data, even though it is upsetting. He said that "We rarely find substantial differences" between the moral behavior of Christians and non-Christians. Barna Project Director Meg Flammang said: "We would love to be able to report that Christians are living very distinct lives and impacting the community, but ... in the area of divorce rates they continue to be the same." Both statements seem to be projecting the belief that conservative Christians, liberal Christians have the same divorce rate. This disagrees with their own data.
The survey has come under some criticism:



David Popenoe, co-director of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University has said that the survey doesn't make sense. He based this belief on his assessment that Christians follow biblical models of the family, making a bond that "the secular world doesn't have...It just stands to reason that the bond of religion is protective of marriage, and I believe it is."
Tom Ellis of the Southern Baptist Convention suggests that the Barna poll is inaccurate because the people contacted may have called themselves born-again Christians, without having previously made a real commitment to God. He said: "We believe that there is something more to being a Christian...Just saying you are Christian is not going to guarantee that your marriage is going to stay together." 9
Some researchers have suggested that religion may have little or no effect on divorce rates. The apparently higher rate among born-again Christians, and lower rate among Atheists and Agnostics may be due to the influence of financial and/or educational factors.
One reason for the discrepancy of beliefs about divorce rates among born-again Christians may be that their churches are unaware of the true number of divorcing couples in their midst.
Many couples would find it difficult to continue attending services in the same congregation after their marital separation; meeting at church would be awkward. So, they drop out.
Many probably find that the climate in their church is very negative towards divorcing couples. So, they move to other congregations that are either more accepting of divorce, or are unaware of their marital status.
Variation in divorce rates among Christian faith groups:

Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate) % who have been divorced
Non-denominational (small conservative groups; independents) 34%
Baptists 29%
Mainline Protestants 25%
Mormons 24%
Catholics 21%
Lutherans 21%

Barna's results verified findings of earlier polls: that conservative Protestant Christians, on average, have the highest divorce rate, while mainline Christians have a much lower rate. They found some new information as well: that atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all. George Barna commented that the results raise "questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families." The data challenge "the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriage."
Donald Hughes, author of The Divorce Reality, said:
"In the churches, people have a superstitious view that Christianity will keep them from divorce, but they are subject to the same problems as everyone else, and they include a lack of relationship skills. ...Just being born again is not a rabbit's foot."
Hughes claim that 90% of divorces among born-again couples occur after they have been "saved."

Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance

 

[tturt]

haven't read all the posts -

Offer - can't remember the source - the author was saying many people live together without being married and then split up compared to Christians who usually get married. Therefore, it's inaccurate to say that faith doesn't impact the number of divorces b/c the base line is faulty.

 

[Nadiine]

I wanted to mention an important point that I just recently read from another Post in reply to the high Christian divorce rate - if I find it I'll add the link here for reference.

Just like the statistics on how many in the USA are "Christian", many who claim to be ARE NOT by way of what they actually believe.
According to the BIBLE, they reject central doctrines that make them actual Christians. The latest statistic I just heard on the radio, is 87-89% of all American's are Christian.

DO WE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT NUMBER when we look at our country? I sure don't!
If so many of us are born again Believers, why is God being removed from everywhere around us not to mention all the moral decay & support of open sin?

How many of these divorced Christians are actually saved is anyone's guess. But I truly doubt it's as high for genuine born again believers (as per Biblical standard of what a real Christian is).

With a High count of 'self proclaiming' Christians (who by biblical standards are actually NOT), you'll also have a HIGH COUNT of divorced "christians".

 

[Harlan Norris]

There is nothing wrong with selling items in a church because a church is not really a church. While it is true that Jesus was angry with the people selling things in the Temple of God, you have to remember when Christ was alive the temple/church was the house of God. When Christ died on the cross the New Covenant began and the temple/church/building was abolished for Christians. The new temple is inside each follower of Christ. Our bodies are the temple. If we don’t take care of our bodies we defile the temple.
The modern day church is nothing more than a building where Christians meet, so selling things there is no different than selling from a store or from your home.There are many problems with the modern church but church sales are not in conflict with scipture since the temple is now in all of us.

1 Peter 2:5 “you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.”

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Nothing has changed. The spirit lives within us,and our gatherings should be spiritual. There are plenty of stores that are not also churches,where one may purchase items related to our faith. Comerce is not the function of the church,worship is,edification is,but not comerce. When comerce inters in,it becomes the focus of the church. Our tithe should be sufficient to maintain the ministry in it's proper grandure. A church does not have to be huge to err in this. I attended a store front ministry two different times.Both were involved in worldly exploits to bring about growth. Neither one was full. So, instead of contributing to church sales,we could instead give to the poor. Take some cash and give it to,say,a church that ministers to and helps street people. They are doing a good work, but their flock cannot support it,so, we help them. Or maybe sponser a ministry that seeks to feed and clothe and give the gospel to children in desperate poverty,in say India or Africa, or south America. Here again, we can use our wealth to do good. These are Christian works,and we need to be doing them,and leave comerce to comercial interprises.

 

[Telrunya]

First, do you have any reviews from any Christian sources for this book? I'm a little skeptical of the secular media because they will jump on any bandwagon as long as it bashes Christianity in general, and not just evangelicalism. Your question should read "Why do Evangelicals behave just like the rest of the world"? Since the group Sider has chosen to focus on is the Evangelicals not Lutherans, Methodists, Protestants, Presbyterians (by the way, giving is huge in the Presbyterian churches), etc.

The simple reason that Evangelicals or Christians as you've stated it, look like the rest of the world is because they most likely have not been presented with sound biblical teaching and do not understand why they need a savior or what it even means to be saved. I was part of the Evangelical movement for a few years and then part of a non-denom church and all I heard week in and week out were topical sermons. I kept hearing how God loved me, and how He desired a relationship with me, and how He sent His son to die for me so He could have a relationship with me. I also heard that all I needed to do since I was basically a good person, was to ask Jesus into my heart and all would be forgiven. There was no public confession of sin, we never recited a creed, such as the Apostle's, the Nicene or the Athanasian creed, nor did we ever hear any of these mentioned. The Apostle's Creed is a very basic summation and statement of faith for Christians. It's been said that if you can not affirm the statements in that creed, chances are you're not a Christian.

First, where in the bible does it tell you to "ask Jesus into your heart" and where does it say you're a good person? All this feel good Christianity is poison to the true gospel message. If you're not hearing Christ crucified, died, buried, and risen for your sin or if you've never heard that, then you're in real trouble. You have no reason to be a Christian. The message we're hearing should be Christ-centered and cross-focused, if it isn't, something is seriously wrong. All the warm fuzzies of how Jesus loves you may make you feel all warm and good inside, but you won't recognize your need for a savior, something most Evangelical churches leave out of their gospel presentations. Until the law of God breaks you and proves to you that you have lived a life that is in opposition to God, until you know God's standard and know how you measure up to that standard, and everyone falls short, you will not know why you need a savior. That in short is why Evangelicals and Christians in all denominations and non-denominations look like the rest of the world.

Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."

I have never been to a non denomination church and heard "Just ask Jesus into your heart" without also hearing about the Cross and what Christ did for us. In none of the above verses do I see anything about needing a creed. I'm sorry you were involved in churhes that didn't make that clear to you, but I dont believe this is the norm in protestant churches.

 

[Harlan Norris]

I'm sorry, my eyes have a problem reading any further right now, but in reply to these...

I've heard pastors teach about what the moneychangers were doing at the Temple grounds which Jesus drove out - they were CHEATING the people with the sacrifices they brought.
They'de RESELL animals & charge double - they were ripping the people off.
THUS: "DEN OF THIEVES". Items sold rightfully aren't STEALING or CHEATING.

I see nothing wrong with offering books, tapes, movies, Bibles for a price. WHO CAN SELL A BIBLE IF NOT THE CHURCH?? Do seculars have to sell Bible's or else it's a sin for us?

Politics, I see nothing wrong w/ a church encouraging CHRISTIANS to vote in a democratic society. So what, they go on a social field trip as a group to see F-16's.

It sounds like you may be the one judging others?

Everybody has a complaint I guess.

The worst offending chuch I attended,actually gave away Bibles. In fact they encouraged us to take as many as we wanted to give to those we witnessed to. Our tithe bought these bibles. There was never a collection taken for that purpose.However,this is also the one that had the men's retreat,cruise to the Yucatan. I can just see them witnessing to all those bikini clad women,sitting around the pool,and those in the casino. Books, tapes, ect. Those are all available in commercial establishments that are not churches. As far as endorsement of politicians is concerned,well,the very nature of politics is evil. If we can't see this,it can only be because we no longer know the difference between good and evil. As far as the F-16 incident is concerned. That was the church endorsing war,and encouraging it's military age parisoners to join. Loving one's enemy, is a directive given by Jesus himself. Most churches now clearly avoid this,even to the point of saying,that to do so, is unamerican,even unChristian. The love your neighbor and love your enemy scripture, are both in the sermon on the mount,given by Jesus. The church has abandoned these concepts as a matter of principle. It is no longer taught.

 

[Nadiine]

As far as the F-16 incident is concerned. That was the church endorsing war,and encouraging it's military age parisoners to join. Loving one's enemy, is a directive given by Jesus himself. Most churches now clearly avoid this,even to the point of saying,that to do so, is unamerican,even unChristian.

That's adding MOTIVE to them which you cannot know.

Also, to look at military planes isn't automatic "support of war".
Aside from your personal opinions of Govt/politics/military, it's BECUZ of a military that (if you live in the USA) you have the freedom to sit here and type out your biases & complaints against them.

Support of your countries military isn't wrong.

Your post sounds extremely judgmental as if very few are 'worthy' to be reached out to by the church... much less the church itself being worthy to witness that gospel.

You may want to pay more attn. to your own spiritual condition than others. Meant in concern.

 

[Harlan Norris]

That's adding MOTIVE to them which you cannot know.

Also, to look at military planes isn't automatic "support of war".
Aside from your personal opinions of Govt/politics/military, it's BECUZ of a military that (if you live in the USA) you have the freedom to sit here and type out your biases & complaints against them.

Support of your countries military isn't wrong.

Your post sounds extremely judgmental as if very few are 'worthy' to be reached out to by the church... much less the church itself being worthy to witness that gospel.

You may want to pay more attn. to your own spiritual condition than others. Meant in concern.

Do you know the term, intellectual dishonesty? Look, Here's what is written about soldiers. Luke 3:14, And the soldiers likewise demanded of him,saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages....That's what is expected of soldiers. Do violence to no man. Frankly, any soldier that holds to this,will likely face cortmarshal for deraliction of duty,or refuseing to obey a direct order. An F-16,is a weapon of war and has no other purpose than to kill people,and destroy infrastructure. These are not Christian activities. The purpose of the field trip was in fact to encourage participation in warfare.

 

[JDIBe]

I think if you included the number of co-habitating relationships that split up every year the numbers would fall back more in line.

However, this does not excuse or explain away the truth that Christianity is not making a significant difference in marriage among our young people. Lately, we have been so occupied with performing "triage" trying to help those who are divorced, we have not done as good a job teaching those who are (and aren't) married what a good marriage should be.

I agree with much of what the orig. poster's article said. Many people think of Christianity in the same regard as those weight loss belts they used to sell. The ones with the electrodes that would cause your muscles to contract and the pounds would magically melt away while you sit on the couch. I think that attitude bleeds over into marriage as well.

It does not work that way. We need to do a better job practicing what we preach.

 

[Zecryphon]

"Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

I don't see Jesus saying "Ask me into your heart and you will be saved" in this verse.


"Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Nope, not here either.

"Acts 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.""

Still don't see it.

"I have never been to a non denomination church and heard "Just ask Jesus into your heart" without also hearing about the Cross and what Christ did for us."

Consider yourself fortunate then.

"In none of the above verses do I see anything about needing a creed."

A creed is a basic summation of the beliefs of Christianity. If someone were to ask you what Christians as a whole believe, the basic doctrines, what would you tell them? The creeds are a way to share the basic doctrine of Christianity in a short and easy to remember way.

"I'm sorry you were involved in churhes that didn't make that clear to you, but I dont believe this is the norm in protestant churches."

I'm not talking about a Protestant church, I'm talking about a non-denomination bible church.