Why are Catholic countries resisting the LGBT agenda?

[MikeinSeattle]

If you look at a map of the current countries where gay marriage is legal you will see that those countries with predominantly Catholic populations (Italy, Poland etc.) seem to be more resistant to the new LGBT policies than other countries whose religious population is not as strongly Catholic. Why is this? Do Catholics just have more desire to resist those changes?

 

[public hermit]

If you look at a map of the current countries where gay marriage is legal you will see that those countries with predominantly Catholic populations (Italy, Poland etc.) seem to be more resistant to the new LGBT policies than other countries whose religious population is not as strongly Catholic. Why is this? Do Catholics just have more desire to resist those changes?

I don't know if it's justified to identify the official policies of those two countries with Catholicism. It also isn't justified to identify the teaching of the Catholic Church with the position of its members.

There seems to be a disconnect between Catholic teaching and the folks who sit in the pews, depending on the area of course. For instance, according to recent studies, a majority of American and European Catholics favor same-sex marriage.

Majority of U.S. Catholics’ opinions run counter to church on contraception, homosexuality

How Catholics around the world see same-sex marriage, homosexuality

 

[tolly]

What does "resistance" mean? What would you expect from countries which have predominately religious populations? What are "new" policies?

I am having trouble discerning what exactly you are seeking answers for.

Tolly

 

[tolly]

[There seems to be a disconnect between Catholic teaching and the folks who sit in the pews, depending on the area of course. For instance, according to recent studies, a majority of American and European Catholics favor same-sex marriage.

Majority of U.S. Catholics’ opinions run counter to church on contraception, homosexuality

How Catholics around the world see same-sex marriage, homosexuality[/QUOTE]

Isn't being disconnected from the teaching of the church to which one belongs evidence that the person doesn't really identify in that faith?

I suppose if the leader of that church agrees with a position, congregation members of that church should evaluate that position and decide whether it comports with the faith and doctrine they can stand up for.

The church in question uses, and has for centuries, a book which the church based its doctrine upon. The book hasn't changed, but the doctrine has (to the extent that can be reasonably determined based on the pronouncements from the leadership). Perhaps, if one applies these realities, the disconnect you allude to isn't so hard to understand.

 

[public hermit]

Perhaps, if one applies these realities, the disconnect you allude to isn't so hard to understand

Perhaps. I just think the idea that Catholics, tout court, are resisting the cultural changes concerning LGBTQ communities is not accurate in relation to significant portions of the Catholic faithful. The reasons for that are debatable, sure.

 

[tolly]

Is a doctrine supposed to move with culture? I don't agree. It comes down to a specific "line" or "standard" or "teaching". The church, I believe, through the Pope, issues ecclesiastical writings which the devote must follow ("tout court") and the congregation is resisting. I am convinced that the church's issues seem to their congregation to be in opposition to the teachings they have put their [congregation] faith in.

Who could blame them? If my pastor told me I needed to paint myself green every morning because that is what our God teaches, and I could not find any relevant teaching in the book my church has historically used, I would be skeptical, as well.

 

[Andrewn]

If you look at a map of the current countries where gay marriage is legal you will see that those countries with predominantly Catholic populations (Italy, Poland etc.) seem to be more resistant to the new LGBT policies than other countries whose religious population is not as strongly Catholic. Why is this? Do Catholics just have more desire to resist those changes?

There are currently 30 countries where same-sex marriage is legal: Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Costa Rica, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, the United Kingdom, the United States of America and Uruguay.

Absent from this are Italy & Poland, as you mentioned, but also Russia & Greece (EO), Muslim-majority countries, Africa, India, and China.

So, what do you conclude from this?

 

[RDKirk]

I don't know if it's justified to identify the official policies of those two countries with Catholicism. It also isn't justified to identify the teaching of the Catholic Church with the position of its members.

There seems to be a disconnect between Catholic teaching and the folks who sit in the pews, depending on the area of course. For instance, according to recent studies, a majority of American and European Catholics favor same-sex marriage.

Majority of U.S. Catholics’ opinions run counter to church on contraception, homosexuality

How Catholics around the world see same-sex marriage, homosexuality

Depends on the issue and what people really think about it.

For instance, with regard to abortion:

Views on abortion are more mixed, with combined surveys from 2011 through 2013 showing opinion is split among U.S. Catholics. About half (53%) of white Catholics say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 41% say it should be illegal in all or most cases; among Hispanic Catholics, 43% say it should be legal in all or most cases, while 52% say it should be illegal in all or most cases.

To say, "It should be legal in the secular community" is not the same thing as saying, "I approve of it." To say that same-sex marriage should be legal in the secular community is not the same thing as saying, "I approve of it."

There are many, many things in the secular society that I do not approve of and that I do not think are compatible with the Christian lifestyle, but I'm not going to spend any resources in an effort to get the king to force non-Christians to act like Christians.

 

[Albion]

...countries with predominantly Catholic populations (Italy, Poland etc.) seem to be more resistant to the new LGBT policies than other countries whose religious population is not as strongly Catholic. Why is this? Do Catholics just have more desire to resist those changes?

Most likely, "yes."

 

[Andrewn]

To say that same-sex marriage should be legal in the secular community is not the same thing as saying, "I approve of it."

Should the consequences of same-sex marriage be legal in a secular community? These consequences include things like the right to adoption, the right to mutual health care sharing, the right to immigration based on the concept of uniting families, inheritance issues, etc.

 

[rturner76]

If you look at a map of the current countries where gay marriage is legal you will see that those countries with predominantly Catholic populations (Italy, Poland etc.) seem to be more resistant to the new LGBT policies than other countries whose religious population is not as strongly Catholic. Why is this? Do Catholics just have more desire to resist those changes?

Yes. Protestants are split on the issue whereas The Catholic Church is singular in her teaching about those issues. Not to say there aren't a ton of gay Catholics. they know what the CHurch says about it but they choose to keep coming. I just assume they are all celibate

 

[RDKirk]

Should the consequences of same-sex marriage be legal in a secular community? These consequences include things like the right to adoption, the right to mutual health care sharing, the right to immigration based on the concept of uniting families, etc.

That's for Caesar to deal with.

 

[Arcangl86]

If you look at a map of the current countries where gay marriage is legal you will see that those countries with predominantly Catholic populations (Italy, Poland etc.) seem to be more resistant to the new LGBT policies than other countries whose religious population is not as strongly Catholic. Why is this? Do Catholics just have more desire to resist those changes?

Most of the earlier adaptors of marriage equality are historically Catholic countries, including the first country to legalize it via popular referendum, Ireland.

 

[Albion]

Most of the earlier adaptors of marriage equality are historically Catholic countries, including the first country to legalize it via popular referendum, Ireland.

Which ones besides Ireland?

 

[Arcangl86]

Which ones besides Ireland?

Among the first 10 countries were Belgium, Spain, Portugal and Argentina. Belgium and Spain were the second and third country respectively. Quebec was the fifth jurisdiction to allow it, if we are counting Canadian provinces separately.

 

[Albion]

What it looks like is that predominantly Catholic countries are still often politically liberal, and there are examples of such nations being receptive to Same-Sex marriage.

HOWEVER, among those countries that remain opposed to such changes, Catholic ones are the most prominent.

But after all is said and done, there probably isn't a good correlation between the views of the recent governments in a lot of these countries and the religious make-up of the people the govern.

 

[trophy33]

What it looks like is that predominantly Catholic countries are still often politically liberal, and there are examples of such nations being receptive to Same-Sex marriage.

HOWEVER, among those countries that remain opposed to such changes, Catholic ones are the most prominent.

But after all is said and done, there probably isn't a good correlation between the views of the recent governments in a lot of these countries and the religious make-up of the people the govern.

I would rather say that Catholic countries are mixed about LGBT, some are for it, some are against it, more or less 50:50.

Protestant countries today are liberal almost without exception, so they are heavily pro LGBT.

On the other hand, Ortodox countries (Russia, Serbia...) are practically all against LGBT, so these, together with muslim, buddhist and hinduist countries, are the most prominent.

 

[Lost4words]

If you look at a map of the current countries where gay marriage is legal you will see that those countries with predominantly Catholic populations (Italy, Poland etc.) seem to be more resistant to the new LGBT policies than other countries whose religious population is not as strongly Catholic. Why is this? Do Catholics just have more desire to resist those changes?

LGBT is like a festering sore. It is and has, taken people away from God.

 

[Albion]

I would rather say that Catholic countries are mixed about LGBT, some are for it, some are against it, more or less 50:50.

Protestant countries today are liberal almost without exception, so they are heavily pro LGBT.

On the other hand, Ortodox countries (Russia, Serbia...) are practically all against LGBT, so these, together with muslim, buddhist and hinduist countries, are the most prominent.

The more we get into this, the more I suspect that there isn't much of a standard by which to judge. The most notable countries in holding to traditional views are apparently Poland and Italy, and those are well-known as Catholic states. However, you are from the Netherlands, and I wouldn't say for a moment that although it is more Protestant, that's the reason its views and laws are more liberal than those of a lot of other nations.

 

[trophy33]

The more we get into this, the more I suspect that there isn't much of a standard by which to judge. The most notable countries in holding to traditional views are apparently Poland and Italy, and those are well-known as Catholic states. However, you are from the Netherlands, and I wouldn't say for a moment that although it is more Protestant, that's the reason its views and laws are more liberal than those of a lot of other nations.

Not sure how you measure what is most notable. Why is Italy more noteable than Russia or India or why is Poland more notable than Serbia or Ukraine or Japan?

There are many Catholic countries or states that are pro LGBT. But I cannot think of many (actually not even one) of Orthodox, muslim or buddhist countries...

To your other point, I did not study why protestant countries are at large so liberal and progressive today. Maybe it has something to do with exceptional personal freedom and individuality which is characteristic for protestantism or with the desire of protestantism to be separated from the state affairs.

The traditional religion of a country does not have to be the direct reason, but some strong correlation pattern can be seen, IMO - protestant countries are most frequently liberal, orthodox countries are most frequently conservative and catholic countries are a mixture.