D
dies-l
Guest
Precisely said:
This from the one who has admittedly not read the arguments made in this thread. : clap:
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Precisely said:More like...
A: "I believe you're wrong in your belief that nonbelievers are not tormented in Hell forever".
B: "Why?"
A: "Because the Bible teaches over and over again that the price of sin is the second (spiritual) death, which is eternal torment in fire that ascends forever and ever in the presence of the Lamb and the angels."
B: "No because it just says the place of hell lasts forever, not the people being tormented. I can't believe in a God that would eternally torment people. That isn't just."
A: "What is the point of hell lasting forever when its purpose does not last forever? That's like emphasizing a jail cell that is eventually empty for the rest of eternity. It doesn't make sense."
B: "No, because only three people are eternally there. Satan, the beast, and the false prophet in Revelation."
A: "So you are fine with a God that can eternally torment three people for eternity, but not any more than that? So three is the limit for you, huh?"
B: "....."
A: "........?"
B: "The Bible clearly says that the wages of sin is death and the fate of the wicked is their destruction; it never says anything about them be subject to eternal torment."
A: So you took 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 out of your Bible? A single verse has debunked two of your arguments. First, hell is the fate of ALL who "do not know God and obey the gospel" and not just three people. Second, the destruction is EVERLASTING. Not the "place."
B: "....You're just ignoring my posts. Go back and read the rest of the thread."
A:
You are right that there is a lot of that going on from those who insist on eternal torment.
This is how the discussion has gone so far:
A: "I don't believe that nonbelievers are tormented in Hell forever".
B: "Why not?"
A: "Because the Bible teaches over and over again that the price of sin is death and destruction, not eternal torment."
B: "What about this verse that says that Hell lasts forever"?
A: "That verse says that Hell lasts forever, but says nothing about people being tormented there forever".
B: "Well what about this verse that talks about weeping and gnashing of teeth?"
A: "That verse is interesting, but once again, nothing about non-believers being tormented eternally in Hell."
B: "Well, what about this verse that says "they" will tormented forever?"
A: "The 'they' in that verse refers to the beast, the false prophet, and the devil, not to non-believers on the whole. In fact the specificity of that verse undermines the claim that eternal torment is the general fate of non-believers."
B: "Well, are you saying that the false prophet is not a non-believer?"
A: "No, I am saying that the false prophet is not all non-believers."
B: "Well, why do keep saying that Hell doesn't exist? I've shown you plenty of verses to show that it does."
A: "I have never said that Hell doesn't exist. In fact, I believe that it does exist and probably lasts forever."
B: "Then why do you keep saying that it's not eternal? If eternal life is eternal, then so is eternal hell?"
A: "I have not claimed that hell is not eternal?"
B: "Why do you keep ignoring what the Bible clearly says?"
A: "The Bible clearly says that the wages of sin is death and the fate of the wicked is their destruction; it never says anything about them be subject to eternal torment."
B: "But what about . . . [repeat the same 4 or 5 prooftexts as before]"
A: [Point out that those 4 or 5 prooftexts don't say what the ETs think they do]
B: "Hmph! Why do you keep ignoring Scripture?!?!?!?"
A:
I think you may be spiritualizing the question too much. If someone kidnapped my kid, I would much rather know that he would be drowned in 5 minutes than that he would be repeatedly drowned for 3 weeks. Wouldn't you?
If they are the same thing it should make no difference.
actually no, I'd rather not want them dead. You can recover from torture, not from death.
oops you need another section explaining this one:
Thrown into the lake of Fire
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
Lake of Fire
Rev. 20:15, "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Already dealt with that one!
Where's the eternal torment in that one? Common sense would say that a "lake of fire" might torture for a period, but will ultimately destroy. In fact, the previously cited verse went on to explain that, unlike normal circumstances, the devil, the beast, and the false prophet don't get the luxury of an end to their torment. You'd think that if the same were true for anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life. The fact that the two passages read differently in this regard would indicate a different fate for the subjects of each.
It would be a lot like if I said, "if you murder, you will go to prison, where you will stay for the rest of your life" and then later on said, "if you steal, you will go to prison." Your logic would infer based on those two sentences that the penalty for stealing is life in prison, but that logic is flawed, as I hope this example makes clear.
Hebrews 6:18 (NASB)Why does He have to do what He said? He can do what He wants.
He created everyone exactly as He chose to do.He did. And do you believe God chose, in other words wanted to create billions of people just to torture them forever and ever after a short while on earth?
Glad you think He can. And He will.Absolutely. Now, has anybody here said that God can't burn humans forever?
Even annihilation would be GREAT reward compared to burning forever.Also, ask yourself this question. If a person denied God in life, why would they suddenly love Him in hell? They wouldn't. They would continue to hate God, and considering our souls are eternal, that hatred would continue eternally. If you continue to hate God, why would He be just in simply ending your suffering when you were placed in suffering for hatred of God? He would be rewarding you by ending your punishment even though you hadn't repented.
May God Richly Bless you!
Death does not mean 'cease to exist'.Your article doesn't make a convicing case. You cite a lot of verses dealing with the dead being resurrected and judged. They don't say that the unrighteous will then be given eternal life. The bible speaks about "the second death" - everybody shall be raised from the grave, and everybody shall be judged. The righteous ones will be given eternal life, the others will be given death, which is the wages of sin.
gradyll said:ooops you forgot there is only 5 verses in between the above verses.
dollarsbill said:Glad you think He can. And He will.
dollarsbill said:Even annihilation would be GREAT reward compared to burning forever.
Are you saying that you would rather burn in Hell forever?Wow! You are grasping at straws now to make your point. The fact that you can think of a worse punishment does not make the lesser punishment a reward. Could you imagine a parent who told their kids, "being grounded is a GREAT reward compared to me violently abusing you everyday"?
He can, but the NT says torment forever in the fire.Now, will you acknowledge that God can annihilate people?
Glad you think He can. And He will.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?