Why am I so upset about this?

[hisbloodformysins]

This is going to sound SO INSANELY cold and callous, but I HATE when women say that - because it usually only applies to their husbands - and not all the boyfriends or lovers they've had before. I have an Army buddy whose wife said something almost exactly like the quote above to him, yet he knows that she has had many one-night stands and various other sexual relationships before him. Why does the husband have to work so hard for sex, when it was given away like it was nothing before they met?

Please note : I know this does not apply to all women, I'm only speaking about the ones it DOES apply to, so don't try to sacrifice me!

Easy to answer William, I loved sex and the lust of sex before my hubby. And I don't even enjoy kissing him. The reason is that the ppl you usually have one night stands with is a lustful situation, you haven't lived with them, haven't had a chance to fight with them yet, to see how selfish and unattentive they really are (which is usually not a concern in a heated one night stand) and so forth. Yes, women do lust also. But we are so different, and this is not an excuse, it's been a learning experiance for myself as well to try to not take my hubby's insensitive gestures as a sign of a lack of love, when the truth is, he doesn't even understand how what he's doing is so bad, and if I try to tell him he accuses me of nagging (ooohh, you want me mad, say that sterotypical term, go ahead )... which further shows me he doesn't care about me or my needs, but rather hisself. But I have had to learn that men and women truly are different. Women are fragile creatures, even if they don't show it- they think with their emotions, everything is interpreted through the relm of emotion, wheras a man obviously compartmentalizes (uses one portion of brain at time) and comes across as insensitive and calloused to a woman. It's neither's fault, they both have to strive to understand eachother. And that takes effort. So yes, I have a higher sex drive than a lot of average women, so I want sex even if I'm mad, not for the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], or for the fact that it feels good, I don't know why, I guess I just like the intercourse, but it's less than desirable for me with my hubby, as a matter of fact I'm the one that wants to run away afterwards while he's the one that wants to cuddle. And it's less than desirable because we are still learning to love eachother (meaning becoming sensitive to one another) and I don't like the physical affection with him because of the state of our relationship..........so anyways, no, women can't just get horny suddenly and have this awsome passionate sex with their partner if they aren't happy with them, unless it's that time of the month, or their watching porn. Thanks for baring with me.

 

[gary2468]

What Dave said^. We teach people how to treat us. How you treat her will have a great impact on how she treats you. And vice versa.

That is not necessarily true. One person may speak the others love language with nothing in return... ever. I speak hers all the time, which is 'acts of service' but she is philosophically opposed to mine which is 'physical touch'. SHe was brought up in a family that did not hug very much and has problems with hugging "too much". FUnny that this does not apply to our kids, just to me. If she never hugs or touches me then how do you get to the point of sexual intimacy. I clean anything/everything I can around the house and I take the kids out all the time to give her time alone. Those are the acts of service she specifically asked for.

Therefore what you say only happens when both spouses want to meet the other's needs. They have to want to.

 

[William Nunn]

As you rightly point out, this DOES NOT apply to all women, this is a christian forum where most women would have either saved themselves for their husbands, or, like me, reclaimed their virginity after coming back to God and repenting.. THEN saved themselves for their husbands.

For those you think it DOES apply to, who have had a sexual past before marriage (PAST being the operative word) If they are repentant of their sexual past, God has forgiven them... who gave you the right to comment on something God has dealt with?

Husbands who are fulfiling their godly role as a husband do not need to "work so hard for sex" Work? I'm sorry but am I missing something here? If they are following the bible and seeking God on how to be a husband and love their wives, the sex will come as an expression of that because I wife will feel cherished, cared for and loved as a matter of course.

That last statement, is just, wrong. That's the way it SHOULD be. But from gary2468's own testimony, you see that being a good husband doesn't mean there will be regular sex (and vice versa for wives). I mean, seriously - do you believe what you just said? I'm only 21 years old, not what you'd call the most experienced man in the world, but even I know that sex in marriage isn't solely reliant on the husband or the wife being great spouses.

And I'm getting tired of half you people trying to turn what I say about this subject (in other threads too) into a judgemental statement. You know what - if it affects MY marriage, then I have EVERY RIGHT to comment on it. You can live in la-la land where our sins have no reprocussions on our future, but I'm a little more pragmatic. The Lord forgives our sins, it doesn't mean that we still don't have to deal with the earthly consequences. If I steal something, I know the Lord will forgive me, but that doesn't mean I'm not subject to the law. If I had sex before I was married, then I have to deal with the consequences of that.

So, back to the point. Yes, if I knew that my wife had sex regularly with other men with no strings attached- one night stands, old boyfriends, whatever- and then tried to tell me, the man who she's supposed to love and care for more than any other man in the world, that I'm going to have to "make love to her all day" to have sex with her, that just doesn't add up.
For me, it's always been impossible to distinguish between love and sex. In my mind, you didn't have sex if it wasn't someone you were ready to devote your life to. Just the act of sex requires so much trust - you are giving your whole body over to someone else. SO when people tell me that they didn't value sex before, but they do now, it doesn't cmpute with me. I don't deny your sincerity - because I know salvation can change your view on the entire world - but I still find it impossible to understand how sex can be seperated from love. So with that in mind, if I knew my spouse just basically gave that away before - to me it means that she must've been INCREDIBLY in love with those other men. But then for her to tell me that I have to basically earn it (which by the way, I don't mind the idea of romancing my wife - I actually love it) by "making love to her all day" is almost insulting. I mean, I don't expect her to roll over and have sex with me whenever, but she was willing to with other men. And I hate to sound so insecure - but it's also an issue of knowing that she would fin me more attractive than her past lovers. I mean, what, was she so incredibly turned on by these men that she could go home with them after one date - but I can't turn her on unless I make a two-day effort? It's just a little depressing to imagine that happening.

Look at it like this - What if you knew your husband was so incredibly loving and kind with his former lovers, you know, always sent them fowers and love notes and told them how wonderful they were. But with you, he said "you have to clean the house, do the laundry, and make sure the kids have their lunches, and then I'll get you some flowers." It's like, sure you don't mind doing those things (if you are a housewife), but I think most would be uncomfortable knowing that they had to DO something to get from their husbands what they gave to their former girlfriends without any effort.

You can go on and on about how pasts are forgiven - but that's not even close to the point of my post. I'm not talking about forgiveness. I know sexual sins are forgiven - but if anything, wether it be a sexual past or a past of alcohol abuse , is going to have an effect on your marriage then it needs to be dealt with.

 

[William Nunn]

[/i]

William speak for yourself there buddy! knowing that your statement doesn't apply to a majority of women on this forum, why even post it?!! I fought off men with a stick before I got married and saved myself for my husband, I really find your generalized post disrespectful, even with the disclaimer!

Do the majority of us have problems with alcoholism? Do the majority of us have problems with pornography addiction? I don't know when the rule was set in place that a topic had to eefect a MAJORITY of people to be posted on this forum. I posted a question, hoping to get a little insight - and all I get is someone saying I'm being judgemental (which I'm starting to think they do to feel better about themselves) and someone telling me I'm being disrespectful. Thanks for the help!

If you found it disrespectful, well, I don't know what to say. If it doesn't apply to you then there's no reason to be. But it does apply to some, so it's relevant.

 

[desi]

Gary, if I were you I would change the way I behave until she starts giving it up.

 

[LN]

William if you are going to make statements about your marriage then why not say it in the first person rather than making a generalized blanket statement

i.e. instead of:

'Why does the husband have to work so hard for sex, when it was given away like it was nothing before they met?'

say:

"I find it frusterating that I have to work hard for sex when other men seemed to get it pretty easily from my wife before we were married"

If my husband cheated on me, I wouldn't say "all men are cheaters." Not fair to the men who aren't. I'd say "my man cheated."

see the diff?

Thanks for the help!

honestly, if you posted this as YOUR situation I would have felt a lot of compassion and offered support for your feelings.

 

[AndOne]

William -

It sounds like you may guilt your wife into sex - if she isn't in the mood - or not feeling good.

Personally - I think holding your spouse's past sexual experiences (before marriage) over her head every time she doesn't want to have sex is rediculous.

I see that you are 21 - well the day is coming when the tables will be turned and you will not want sex as frequently as your wife. You are going to feel pretty crappy when she brings up your past sins when you are not in the mood or not feeling good every time she wants you to make love to her.

 

[William Nunn]

Whoah! I'm not married! RED ALET RED ALERT!!

I'm engaged, but not married. It's not my situation (yet!!! - hopefully never!), but I've seen it happen to a few buddies of mine, and I was speaking from that vicarious experience. And it can be a big problem. I just wanted some insight from women, since I really can't bring this subject up with any of the women I know.

So I apologize for any misconception I gave you guys!

But Behe's Boy, you are way off the point. I never said "anytime a spouse turns you down" that it would be upsetting, there will always be times when were both too tired or one of is or we just aren't in the mood - but I seem to hear from many women "I can't just roll over and be in the mood for sex! I have to romanced all day!" But, I know a lot of women who say that who certainly didn't treat sex that way with other men, so why would they do that with their husband? Why was sex so freely given to these other men, but the husband has to be romantic?

Again, I'm not dogging being romantic. I actually love doing things to make my fiancee feel special. Notes, flowers, goofy presents - I even MADE her a Valentine's Day card, and that thing took my five flippin' days to get right! But it's just the double standard that I think is stupid - needing romance from the husband to be in the mood for sex, when other men didn't. When that happens, you'd get into thinking "Were these other guys just so much more attractive than me? What is it that they did that turned on my wife so much that I can't do?"

 

[ceres]

It wouldn't come into my mind that it being my husband's birthday means he wants sex more than any other day, or that he has more expectations of it. Maybe she just didn't know thats what you wanted for your bithday.

 

[katelyn]

Why was sex so freely given to these other men, but the husband has to be romantic?

Because sex with those other men wasn't in God's design. It was about lust, not about intimacy. Chances are if the woman ended up staying with one of those "other" men, they eventually would have had to "work" for sex, as you put it.

But it's not about working for sex. It's about feeling an intimate connection with your partner. That's what sex is supposed to be - a way of showing your intimate relationship with your spouse. When you are spending the rest of your life together, the ability for lust to be enough runs out after awhile. That's why if my husband ignores me all day and then at night wants to have sex, I'm not likely to be interested...how am I supposed to feel an intimate connection if I'm ignored?

I'm not saying that you might not have a point, in that perhaps those women you are referring to should be more considerate of their husband's needs. But the way you are putting it kind of makes it sound like you think the man should be able to get out of making his wife feel loved since she had flings with other men in the past. I mean, does your complaint only apply to women with a sexual past? Are those who were virgins until their wedding night allowed to need to be romanced, but every other woman is not?

 

[charligirl]

I'm only 21 years old, not what you'd call the most experienced man in the world, but even I know that sex in marriage isn't solely reliant on the husband or the wife being great spouses.

Sex is an expression of love, it can be warfare, it's a sealing and rememberance of your marital vows and covenant. If both partners are playing their part in living as the bible calls them to as man and wife then sex will usually (illness or medical condition excepted) be a natural expression of that.

And I'm getting tired of half you people trying to turn what I say about this subject (in other threads too) into a judgemental statement. .

This was the first post of yours I have really read, if half the people on here are thinking the same way then just maybe you are not coming across well. It's hard to communicate tone on posts, perhaps you need to review the way you are expressing yourself if we are reading you wrong.

You know what - if it affects MY marriage, then I have EVERY RIGHT to comment on it. .

But it doesn't, you're not married

You can live in la-la land where our sins have no reprocussions on our future, but I'm a little more pragmatic. The Lord forgives our sins, it doesn't mean that we still don't have to deal with the earthly consequences. If I steal something, I know the Lord will forgive me, but that doesn't mean I'm not subject to the law. If I had sex before I was married, then I have to deal with the consequences of that..

I never said there were no consequences to sin, and I live very far from la-la land. Of course there are concequences, previous sexual experiences may have caused an STD, a child a rejection problem.. any number of things. BUT, a concequence of sin should not be your partner getting all bent out of shape about your forgiven, forgotten past. Particularly when the past relationships were before the person was saved and didn't know any better, or they were damaged and had sex for the wrong reasons.

For me, it's always been impossible to distinguish between love and sex. ..

Ahh, now we are getting somewhere. You can and must distinguish between the two, if not you are falling into the same trap as the world. The world thinks sex=love which is precisely why so many women give it away before marriage and at the wrong time, because they either THINK they are in love, or they think by sleeping with a man they will GET his love... it is so damaged and so wrong.

Sex is a natural expression of covenant love between a man and wife God didn't design for sex to be outside of that. Sex is an expression a completing but it isn't love alone.... you can love without sex.

Consider this, Jesus (who we are called to be like, more than that, husbands should love their wives as Christ did the church) was fully man, He IS love, but was he ever sexual? no of course not. Love has three strands:

Philio - friendship
eros - physical/sexual
agape - come what may, a decison to love no matter what.

If you say that love and sex are the same you are missing out on the other 2 important aspects of love.

but I still find it impossible to understand how sex can be seperated from love. So with that in mind, if I knew my spouse just basically gave that away before - to me it means that she must've been INCREDIBLY in love with those other men. ..

As I said above, it doesn't neccessarily mean anything of the sort, she could have been unsaved, damaged and believed what the world says or just desperate to receive male love and affirmation. IN my experience most women who are promiscuous are usually not after the actual 'sex' at all, they want love, intimacy and hugs, it's a desperate need for that love that draws them to have sex because they think it equals love and they will get love somehow from it.

You can have sex without love - millions of people do it every second of the day. It's NOT what God intended, but it happens because the world says sex+love and if you sleep with someone they will love you. God intended the love to come fist.. the sex AFTER the commiottment and marriage. How the world has twisted it, and how many people have been taken in by the deception.

But then for her to tell me that I have to basically earn it (which by the way, I don't mind the idea of romancing my wife - I actually love it) by "making love to her all day" is almost insulting. I mean, I don't expect her to roll over and have sex with me whenever, but she was willing to with other men. ...

As I have said, willing to when she was deceievd, unsaved and damaged, living in sin. But now has realised the value and importance of sex saved for marriage. Women who have been saved from and healed of past sexual relationships usually see how damaged they were and how twisted their view was, so they now start to heal and want to live the way God intended. Which was for man to love his wife as Christ did the church, she starts to tkae her God given place and see's sex in it's proper light... as part of a loving relationship. SO instead of having sex in order to 'win' or get love it becomes the expression of love it should always have been.... in responce to her loving husband who cherishes her.

I think there has been a misunderstanding about the 'making love all day' or 'working for it' it's really just the husband, being a godly husband and loving his wife.

And I hate to sound so insecure - but it's also an issue of knowing that she would fin me more attractive than her past lovers. I mean, what, was she so incredibly turned on by these men that she could go home with them after one date - but I can't turn her on unless I make a two-day effort? It's just a little depressing to imagine that happening...

Again you are thinking like a young man... not a woman. You are thinking that women have sex for the same reasons as men do... THEY DON'T. With women it is usually about emotion NOT physical. It has nothing to do with 'being incredibly turned on' it was probably more to do with being 'incredibly desperate for love' that drives a women to have one night stands. So there is no need to worry about her comparing.. believe me marital sex is WAY WAY up there, it cannot compete, no matter how gifted a previous boyfriend may have been in that department!

No one is talking about making a '2-day' effort, what we are saying is learn that for women sex is usually triggered by emotion, they get turned on by a man being loving during the day and cherishing, whereas as man can get a 2 second glimpse of his wife naked and be up for it.

I hope that makes more sense... you are trying to understand a woman, with a 21 year old man's head and how you feel and react.. we are very different.

 

[William Nunn]

I thank you for an actual response with good points, Charligirl. You've been more helpful than you know with this one post.

I know I'm not married, but I will be very soon. In fact *looks at calendar* there's only 3 weeks to go.

And I know her past is forgiven and forgotten. And even though I hate that she's not a virgin, I know I can get over that, even though it's painful. The thing I worry about is if she is truly over all that. I know for a fact she doesn't want to think about her past, that she is in love with me, but it would be naive of me to think that there's no way that her past can to come back to haunt us, there's all kinds of possibilities, many of which I've seen in other marriages (even with two couples from my church who I thought were great together). I have to say, that even though it's an unchristian way to behave, if I ever ran into one of the guys she was with I'd probably beat them senseless, and I hate being that way.

As far as being able to seperate sex from love, I didn't mean that sex equates to love. I mean that I've never been able to imagine having sex without real love involved. For someone to tell me that they had sex without real love and commitment involved is like them telling me they thought that the sky was purple with teal polka dots. I know people do it, but I just don't understand it. I know love doesn't equal sex though. I love my brother to death, but umm.....I think you know how I'm going to finish that sentence!

I thank you for making the point about women wanting to find acceptance through sex. I think I've been wanting to hear something along those lines from a woman. It doesn't make it any easier to take, it still hurts, but at least easier to understand, and easier to seperate her past with what she wants to experience with me.

Let me make one thing clear though - I will NEVER bring this up with my future wife, you know, throw it in her face. I know that once we are married, it doesn't matter if she's been 4 guys or 400, she's MY wife. And I never liked talking about it when we were first discussing marriage - that's why I ask a lot of questions and stuff here so I won't have to dredge up hard feelings on her.

And there's no way I'm that I'm not going to be the most loving husband EVER! Bold claim I know, but I'm going to do my best to do it. Virginity is something I wanted badly, but I know that in 20 years when we're still together and watching our children grow up - it would've been a small price to pay to give that up. Sometimes though it's just hard to focus on the long term rewards over the short term ones.

 

[charligirl]

I thank you for making the point about women wanting to find acceptance through sex. I think I've been wanting to hear something along those lines from a woman. It doesn't make it any easier to take, it still hurts, but at least easier to understand, and easier to seperate her past with what she wants to experience with me..

No, it doesn't make it easier... but I'm glad it helps explain things a bit Be assured that what she will have with you will be mind blowing for her because she has total love, acceptance and committment from you.. without sex first! You have assured her by your abstinance that you accept her and love her for HER not for her body. A really really crucial thing for a woman with scars from a sexual history to know.

Let me make one thing clear though - I will NEVER bring this up with my future wife, you know, throw it in her face. I know that once we are married, it doesn't matter if she's been 4 guys or 400, she's MY wife. And I never liked talking about it when we were first discussing marriage - that's why I ask a lot of questions and stuff here so I won't have to dredge up hard feelings on her...

That's a good approach

And there's no way I'm that I'm not going to be the most loving husband EVER! Bold claim I know, but I'm going to do my best to do it. Virginity is something I wanted badly, but I know that in 20 years when we're still together and watching our children grow up - it would've been a small price to pay to give that up. Sometimes though it's just hard to focus on the long term rewards over the short term ones.

We all fall and you will get it wrong at times, as well all do but you have the right attitude and with God you can make it a fantastic marriage.

 

[William Nunn]

Thanks Charligirl, I'm actually feeling much better about this.