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There is a difference between nonbelief and denial. I have nonbelief towards your God's existance.You do not understand the concept for one important reason, the Holy Spirit is not with you. How can you understand the way of God when you have turned from Him?
I disagree. For foreknowledge to be able to exist, the universe cannot be probabalistic; moreover, it must be entirely deterministic (though not necessarily deducably so).His knowledge does not negate our desire or desicison about our lives. In other words, if i make the choice to sin then that is my free will to do so. God's knowledge of what I am going to do is not going to impact my choice.
Unless, of course, it doesn't.You may disagree all you want. However, the Word of God stands.
Well, thanks for helping with our discussion...You will never understand His Word without the Holy Spirit.
There is a difference between nonbelief and denial. I have nonbelief towards your God's existance.
Not really. You have non belief about what we communicate about God.
But, its not us who could win you to Christ.
John 6:44 (New International Version)
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."
Its God himself has who first makes himself known to you. Some have met him like the air you breath. They take it for granted.
Their denial will not allow themselves to admit it. The very creation itself with its precise order and ultra complexity, all working in perfect harmony is his calling card. To think it could have all happened simply by chance?
Well..... everyone's choice. Our free will. The fact that many have enough sense to see what's obvious makes some who want to reject it to seek data used in a way in attempt to obscure and contradict the obvious, so they are left feeling free with their free choice. And, God allows us to make that choice. For he does not coerce volition, even though man might try to.
No. I neither believe that your god exists, nor believe that your god doesn't exist. This is nonbelief.
That all depends on how you define 'supernatural'. For example, I believe in the Tarot, but I scoff at astrology.You call yourself Wiccan....
Do you believe in the supernatural?
That all depends on how you define 'supernatural'. For example, I believe in the Tarot, but I scoff at astrology.
[Enjoy life] in My Presence, for Mine is the ecstasy of the spirit and ... joy on earth. - The Goddess
What can I say, I like the finer things in life.You show fine taste...
It is a metaphor for a Wiccan way of life, just as 'Love Thy Neighbour' is a metaphor for a Christian way of life. They are two of my favourites.Is that reality to you??
Yes. Do you? What about gods?Do you believe in goddesses?
No idea. Whatever it is, it occurs during the shuffling of the cards.What do you believe is the power behind the Tarot?
God's foreknowledge of what you will do doesn't negate your free will
There's some biblical teaching for this principle as to why the spiritual is silly and not understood:
Now THAT is truly pathetic if you think about it. A God that ONLY creates people that would accept Him?
You have CONSEQUENCE if you CHOOSE (by your will) to reject Christ. You HAVE the free will to reject or accept. It's a choice.
God cannot honor their [free will] choice of "eternal bliss"
So all people who chose to reject God, and embrace that sin, DON'T HAVE THEIR SIN REMOVED from them, so they MUST be put where it can be contained to live out the sentence of a "death penalty" (2nd death) by Law.
If everyone had free will, as some here claim it should be? Every contestant on quiz shows would always win the top prize. For they would always be free to go back and redo the question.
Now?
If that were the case?
Would it allow for free will?
Yes? No?
Yes. Do you? What about gods?
Like I said.... you are without excuse. Even more so!
Many do not know the supernatural is real. Yet, you? You do.
Yet? You reject Jesus Christ.
.... I could criticise you for rejecting Zeus, and Odin, and Gautama Buddha.
[/size]You quoted a Bible verse that said "...have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse"
Since I have not clearly seen, I do not understand what has been made, I am not without excuse.
You have yet to define 'supernatural', so I can neither confirm nor deny.
By your own arguement, I could criticise you for rejecting Zeus, and Odin, and Gautama Buddha.
It also says by wickedness the truth is suppressed. It says God did make it known....but it was suppressed. Today we commonly refer to that as being 'denial.'
Ahhhemmm..... You call yourself, Wiccan? And? I need to define what supernatural means? I think its too late to try to define it if you do not know by now.
I believe they are/were real entities who went by those names. I do not deny they existed.
I stand by my argument. You arbitrarily choose Christianity over other faiths.As you were saying?
Knowing what decison your going to make before you make it isn't imposing on your free will. Knowing isn't controlling.Suppose I, an entity allegedly with free will, and God*, an entity allegedly omniscient, are in a room with two boxes, A and B. God asks me to pick one of the boxes.
God knows I will pick box A (in this scenario, at least). I don't know God knows this, nor have I made my decision (such that it may be).
This is why a true omniscient being cannot coexist with an entity with true free will.
- Can I pick box B?
- If so, then God is not omniscient.
- If not, then I do not have free will.
*The word is only a placeholder for 'the omniscient'. Don't read too much theology from this
A few of us have said this repeatedly now - it seems to be a chronic misnomer and I don't honestly understand why it seems so hard to grasp.Knowing what decison your going to make before you make it isn't imposing on your free will. Knowing isn't controlling.
I wonder the same thing myself.A few of us have said this repeatedly now - it seems to be a chronic misnomer and I don't honestly understand why it seems so hard to grasp.
In fact, it WOULD be imposing on our free will if God only made people who would accept Him as their Lord & Saviour. THAT would be the violation imo; not to allow anyone who would hold an opposing position to Him.
This might come off as rude or "arrogant"... but I hope not... and that's becuz I consider myself one of them - but, this is basically a layperson's forum.Beats me. I guess some people just like to argue and can't except the truth even when it's staring them in the face. Wallowing in denial is much easier than facing the facts. It's easier to live in ignorant denial than to have to change. It burdens my heart to see people like this. The prince of the air is truly at work.
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