And, yes, she was indeed blessed. Being blessed does not elevate one person above another. Do you think that reluctance to call her Mother of God means we don't consider her to be blessed?
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Whose Mother is Mary . . . .
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jckstraw72
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jckstraw72
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Well, if you had not witty or appropriate response to my statement, you could have just said nothing. Because this comment makes absolutely no sense.If you want a yes or no answer, you ask a yes or no question? Here's the question to which I was responding:
Tell me your thoughts on Mary being the Mother of God (briefly) and I'll bet anything that there will be hints of Nestorianism.
Actually, that's not even a question.
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jckstraw72
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of course, but then again, there are three Persons, and only One was incarnate with Mary as His Mother. And yet that One Person, Christ, is fully God, for in Him dwelt the Godhead bodily, although He was only the Son and not hte Father or the Spirit.
you're just making up nonsense arguments now. you know what the term means. you know its theologically sound. lets move on.
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Kristos
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"men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her 'Theotokos'. No one can say anything greater of her or to her, though he had as many tongues as there are leaves on the trees, or grass in the fields, or stars in the sky, or sand by the sea. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God."
-- Martin Luther
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Kristos
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Christianity understands Jesus Christ as both fully God and fully human, they call Mary "Theotokos" to affirm the fullness of God's incarnation. The Council of Ephesus decreed, in opposition to those who denied Mary the title Theotokos ("the one who gives birth to God") but called her Christotokos ("the one who gives birth to Christ"), that Mary is Theotokos because her Son, Christ, is one person who is both God and man, divine and human. As Cyril of Alexandria wrote, "I am amazed that there are some who are entirely in doubt as to whether the holy Virgin should be called Theotokos or not. For if our Lord Jesus Christ is God, how is the holy Virgin who gave [him] birth, not God-bearer [Theotokos]?" (Epistle 1, to the monks of Egypt; PG 77:13B). Thus the significance of the title "Theotokos" lies more in what it says about Jesus than in what it says about Mary.
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No, you're just dodging the fact that just as Mary is not the mother of the Holy Spirit, she is not the mother of God. She is the mother of Jesus Christ, God incarnate.
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jckstraw72
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i never claimed she was the mother of the Holy Spirit. She is the mother of Jesus. Jesus is God. She is God's mother. God humbled Himself to take on our fallen humanity and He became flesh by Mary.
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Hi, Racer.
But only God the Son has two natures - 100% God and 100% Man. God the Father didn't need a human mother, neither did God the Holy Spirit.
But just because God the Son was the only Person of the Holy Trinity to have a human mother in His Incarnation, doesn't diminish his Personhood in the Godhead. And since His two natures can't be separated, the ECFs wanted to protect that important Christian teaching by calling Mary Theotokos rather than Christotokos, as some were saying (and some say now!).
Mary
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E.C.
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In that case: What are your thoughts on Mary being the Mother of God?
If you want a yes or no answer, you ask a yes or no question? Here's the question to which I was responding:
Tell me your thoughts on Mary being the Mother of God (briefly) and I'll bet anything that there will be hints of Nestorianism.
Actually, that's not even a question.
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I would have thought that you knew that by now. As I've said, due to the fact that Jesus is God incarnate, you can technically call her Mother of God. I think it's a little inaccurate and could be misleading. But, I wouldn't say it's completely wrong. I think it's more true and accurate to call her the Mother of Christ, Mother of Jesus, Mother of God the Son, Mother of God Incarnate.
That's what I think . . . for what it's worth.
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jckstraw72
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was Elizabeth misleading for syaing "mother of my Lord" rather than "mother of my Incarnate Lord"?
and again, if God is to have a mother then it is necessarily God incarnate, bc the eternal God does not and cannot have a mother .... anyone who is Christian knows that Christ was incarnated and born as a man, and therefore HE is the member of the Trinity with a mother -- it could only be potentially confusing to someone who doesnt know Christianity from paganism.
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When we talk about the Trinity, do we say, the Lord, the Son, and the Holy Ghost?
Why do you think that simply identifying her by her true identity, the Mother of Christ, is not good enough?
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jckstraw72
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perhaps ask Elizabeth .... i didnt really understand what you were getting at with Lord, Son, and Holy Spirit ...
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The title "Lord" is interchangeable. I've heard Jesus referred to as my Lord and Savior, the Holy Sprit called the Lord, etc . . . but the title God (alone with no qualifier) refers specifically to God the Father, just like Jesus refers to God the Son, and Holy Spirit refers to God the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
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Kristos
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No, it's not. The Council of Ephesus concluded that it's not. Approximately 200 Bishops were present. The proceedings were conducted in a heated atmosphere of confrontation and recriminations. It was the Third Ecumenical Council. It was chiefly concerned with Nestorianism.
Nestorianism emphasized the dual natures of Christ. Patriarch Nestorius taught that Mary, the mother of Jesus gave birth to the incarnate Christ, not the divine Logos who existed before Mary and indeed before time itself. Consequently, Mary should be called Christotokos, Greek for the "Mother of Christ" and not Theotokos, Greek for the "Mother of God." This was essentially a Christological controversy.
At the urging of its president Cyril of Alexandria, the Council denounced Nestorius' teaching as erroneous and decreed that Jesus was one person, not two separate people: complete God and complete man, with a rational soul and body. The Virgin Mary was to be called Theotokos because she bore and gave birth to God as a man. This did not resolve the debate over the union of the two natures of Christ, and related issues were debated at the Council of Chalcedon.
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