Whose Mother is Mary . . . .

[jckstraw72]

Mary = mother of Jesus
Jesus = God
Mary = mother of God
......where is the confusion? The Word became flesh -- and where did that flesh come from?

 

[racer]

Tell me your thoughts on Mary being the Mother of God (briefly) and I'll bet anything that there will be hints of Nestorianism.

Of course, because that's your only defense against those who effectively show the error and fault of the title Mother of God.

 

[racer]

Mary = mother of Jesus
Jesus = God
Mary = mother of God
......where is the confusion? The Word became flesh -- and where did that flesh come from?

 

[IamAdopted]

Shall we see Ding, round how many? LOL..

 

[Davidnic]

Jesus says He and the Father are one (John 10:30).

Also:

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." (John 14:10)

Where is the basis for dividing them anyway?

Taking Mary out of the equation for the moment, Where is the basis for dividing Christ humanity and divinity?

Christ is human and divine, fully both in one. He exists now as God and man still. Resurrected in the glorified flesh. Just as He walked on earth as God made flesh, not simply God disguised in flesh.

Although this conversation is one that impacts Mary, it's greater impact is a discussion on the nature of Christ.

But the question is: Where is the basis for dividing the nature of Christ?

 

[Hentenza]

Jesus says He and the Father are one (John 10:30).

Also:

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." (John 14:10)

Where is the basis for dividing them anyway?

Taking Mary out of the equation for the moment, Where is the basis for dividing Christ humanity and divinity?

Christ is human and divine, fully both in one. He exists now as God and man still. Resurrected in the glorified flesh. Just as He walked on earth as God made flesh, not simply God disguised in flesh.

Although this conversation is one that impacts Mary, it's greater impact is a discussion on the nature of Christ.

But the question is: Where is the basis for dividing the nature of Christ?

The issue of dividing the nature of Christ is a nestorian heresy. You assume that because we choose to dispute the title of "Mother of God" that we are spliting Jesus. That is not true. I believe, and the scriptures back it up, that Mary gave birth to Jesus both human and God, howerver, our Lord's conception was of the Holy Spirit since Mary did not directly cause her pregnancy. Mary was blessed and still is. God's gift to her is awesome.
Symbolically Mary is the Mother of God, literaly she is not since God has always been and always will be.

 

[Davidnic]

The issue of dividing the nature of Christ is a nestorian heresy. You assume that because we choose to dispute the title of "Mother of God" that we are spliting Jesus. That is not true. I believe, and the scriptures back it up, that Mary gave birth to Jesus both human and God, howerver, our Lord's conception was of the Holy Spirit since Mary did not directly cause her pregnancy. Mary was blessed and still is. God's gift to her is awesome.
Symbolically Mary is the Mother of God, literaly she is not since God has always been and always will be.

There are posts in this thread that say "God is not Jesus, though Jesus is God." As well as "She is mother of the Lord's humanity"

So perhaps not in your case do you split the nature, but it is being done.

I believe that since Christ is fully human and fully divine that Mary is not only symbolically the mother of God. But that in her womb God was carried because Christ and the Father are one.

Now as to how that can be when God has always been and always will be...that is the power of God. I don't need to know how. Just that it is. How does God become man? All that is really beyond us all except by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I use the title mother of God. And this is to show how blessed Mary was but more so to affirm that Christ and the Father are one. Always and forever.

 

[racer]

Here is an interesting series from New Testament Research Ministries regarding Nestorianism, Apollynarianism, Monophysitism, etc . . .

Check them out. They are quite informative:

http://ntrminblog.blogspot.com/2005/03/lessons-in-historical-theology-for.html

http://ntrminblog.blogspot.com/2005/03/lessons-in-historical-theology-for_16.html

http://ntrminblog.blogspot.com/2005/03/and-backpedaling-begins.html

http://ntrminblog.blogspot.com/2005/03/lessons-in-historical-theo_111116913196869837.html

http://ntrminblog.blogspot.com/2005/03/lessons-in-historical-theology-for_21.html

 

[jckstraw72]

its quite simple, ask yourself this question -- "is Mary's son God?"

 

[jckstraw72]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jckstraw72
Mary = mother of Jesus
Jesus = God
Mary = mother of God
......where is the confusion? The Word became flesh -- and where did that flesh come from?

whats wrong with anything i said?

 

[racer]

whats wrong with anything i said?

The appearance of confusion as to "what the confusion is." Forgive me if it is true confusion for you . . . .

 

[Mary of Bethany]

The issue of dividing the nature of Christ is a nestorian heresy. You assume that because we choose to dispute the title of "Mother of God" that we are spliting Jesus. That is not true. I believe, and the scriptures back it up, that Mary gave birth to Jesus both human and God, howerver, our Lord's conception was of the Holy Spirit since Mary did not directly cause her pregnancy. Mary was blessed and still is. God's gift to her is awesome. Symbolically Mary is the Mother of God, literaly she is not since God has always been and always will be.

Okay. Here is where we differ. She is literally, not just symbolically, the Mother of God the Word, One of Three Persons of the Holy Trinity. That does not mean she is the Creator of God the Word, Who has existed from all eternity. But she is literally His mother, because He Who is God literally became human through Mary and the Holy Spirit. And since it is very clear Christian understanding that Christ's two natures cannot be split, that makes her Mother of all of Him, therefore Mother of God: Theotokos.

It's not like this is something the human mind can comprehend. It's a Mystery, but it's True!

Mary

 

[Hentenza]

Okay. Here is where we differ. She is literally, not just symbolically, the Mother of God the Word, One of Three Persons of the Holy Trinity. That does not mean she is the Creator of God the Word, Who has existed from all eternity. But she is literally His mother, because He Who is God literally became human through Mary and the Holy Spirit. And since it is very clear Christian understanding that Christ's two natures cannot be split, that makes her Mother of all of Him, therefore Mother of God: Theotokos.

It's not like this is something the human mind can comprehend. It's a Mystery, but it's True!

Mary

Yes Mary, this will have to be a topic where we will just have to agree to disagree.
You are right, it is a mistery that the human mind cannot comprehend.

In Christ

 

[Petunia]

whats wrong with anything i said?

It just isn't that simple.

 

[jckstraw72]

It just isn't that simple.

why not?

Is Mary's son God?

If Jesus were to say to Mary "I love you, Mother" who would we say said that? Did only a human say it, or cna we also say that God said it? Christ has two natures but they arent schizophrenic or something like that. He is ONE person. When He speaks, the God-man speaks.

 

[Petunia]

why not?

Is Mary's son God?

If Jesus were to say to Mary "I love you, Mother" who would we say said that? Did only a human say it, or cna we also say that God said it? Christ has two natures but they arent schizophrenic or something like that. He is ONE person. When He speaks, the God-man speaks.

You have to have some understanding of the nature of God, before you can even begin to understand our objection to the term.

If you think it's 'that simple' then.. you won't understand our objection to it. You won't even get a 'hint' of what it is we object to.

 

[jckstraw72]

If you think it's 'that simple' then.. you won't understand our objection to it. You won't even get a 'hint' of what it is we object to.

please explain your objection. Mother of God means Jesus is God and Mary is Jesus's mother. No more, no less. the objections I see usually come from someone assuming that Mother of God means more than that.

 

[Petunia]

We've already explained our objection. In several threads.

Just go read around a bit.

 

[Petunia]

*edit

 

[jckstraw72]

to not call Mary the Mother of God you have to disagree with one of the two following statements:

1. Jesus is God
2. Mary is Jesus's mother

which do you disagree with? Otherwise Mary's son is God, making her the Mother of God.