Whose Mother is Mary . . . .

[Petunia]

to not call Mary the Mother of God you have to disagree with one of the two following statements:

1. Jesus is God
2. Mary is Jesus's mother

which do you disagree with? Otherwise Mary's son is God, making her the Mother of God.

Again.. it isn't that simple.

 

[jckstraw72]

Again.. it isn't that simple.

but my Church is one of the ones that call her Mother of God and im telling you that yes, that is what it means. making it more complex than that is foreign to our use of the term.

 

[Petunia]

but my Church is one of the ones that call her Mother of God and im telling you that yes, that is what it means. making it more complex than that is foreign to our use of the term.

I'm sure we all understand how you mean the term.

 

[jckstraw72]

I'm sure we all understand how you mean the term.

then to what do you object?

 

[Petunia]

then to what do you object?

Read what has been posted.. in this thread and a few others. You'll find our objections.

 

[racer]

why not?

Is Mary's son God?

If Jesus were to say to Mary "I love you, Mother" who would we say said that? Did only a human say it, or cna we also say that God said it? Christ has two natures but they arent schizophrenic or something like that. He is ONE person. When He speaks, the God-man speaks.

Funny thing is that we never see Christ tell Mary that He loves her. We don't even see him call her mother.

 

[jckstraw72]

Read what has been posted.. in this thread and a few others. You'll find our objections.

im sorry but i dont have the time or the patience to search through a myriad of threads, or really to read all of this one. please explain for me what's wrong with recognizing Jesus as God and Mary as His mother.

 

[jckstraw72]

Funny thing is that we never see Christ tell Mary that He loves her. We don't even see him call her mother.

unless you're suggesting that He doesn't love her, I'm not sure what the point is of pointing that out ...

 

[Petunia]

im sorry but i dont have the time or the patience to search through a myriad of threads, or really to read all of this one. please explain for me what's wrong with recognizing Jesus as God and Mary as His mother.

Neither do I have the time to continue to repeat what has been said on numerous occasions. Especially to someone who thinks it's 'that simple'. Because.. as I said previously, if you think it's 'that simple', you're not going to understand our objection anyway. Someone else may take the time though.

The Lord bless you!

 

[racer]

to not call Mary the Mother of God you have to disagree with one of the two following statements:

1. Jesus is God
2. Mary is Jesus's mother

which do you disagree with? Otherwise Mary's son is God, making her the Mother of God.

You see, this is what "I" object to. I don't think you are committing any cardinal sin, or sin, by calling Mary Mother of God. I think that it has the potential to be misleading. I believe it's not quite accurate, but He is God incarnate, so technically He can be called "God." I don't understand the insistance of leaving the "incarnate" off the title.

I object to the statement you made above. This statement is an untrue and accusatory assertion, basically--flat out wrong. To simply call Mary what she is/was, Mother of Jesus, Mother of Christ, or Mother of God incarnate is not only acceptable, but is accurate and correct. Referring to her by these titles is not denial of the fact that Jesus is God and that Mary was Jesus' Mother. Now, that is simple.

 

[jckstraw72]

i just dont understand why you insist on interpolating complexities into a rather simple term.

 

[racer]

im sorry but i dont have the time or the patience to search through a myriad of threads, or really to read all of this one. please explain for me what's wrong with recognizing Jesus as God and Mary as His mother.

We find the title Mother of God misleading. Why do you object to simply calling her Mother of God Incarnate?

 

[racer]

i just dont understand why you insist on interpolating complexities into a rather simple term.

Are you really going to claim that you do not understand how the term can be misleading and that you do not see how it can lead to confusion?

 

[jckstraw72]

so you only object that we dont add Incarnate to it? Doesnt the idea that a human is His mother insist upon understanding it through the Incarnation? Thomas said "My Lord and my God" without "incarnate." Anytime Paul refers to Christ as God or Lord, He doesn't say "God incarnate" or "Lord incarnate" and Elizabeth even says "the mother of my Lord" not "the mother of my Lord incarnate." I have no problem saying Mother of God Incarnate, I just dont see why it's necessary to change it, especially when an elementary understanding of Christianity necessitates that it be understood via the Incarnation.

 

[racer]

unless you're suggesting that He doesn't love her, I'm not sure what the point is of pointing that out ...

I find it telling that in Scripture Jesus does not even call Mary mother. Do I believe this is evidence that He did not love her? No it doesn't, and you know that's not what I mean. I believe that what Scripture reveals regarding how Jesus relates to his mother speaks volumens. I believe great pains were made to ensure that Mary was not elevated above the status of all other believers. The fact that Mary is spoken of very little is not the only thing that hints at this, it is how Jesus addresses her when she is spoken to by Him.

 

[jckstraw72]

i mean seriously, who is it confusing to? do ppl honestly think that we teach that she is the origin of the Trinity or something like that? We wouldn't be Christians if we believed that.

 

[racer]

so you only object that we dont add Incarnate to it? Doesnt the idea that a human is His mother insist upon understanding it through the Incarnation? Thomas said "My Lord and my God" without "incarnate." Anytime Paul refers to Christ as God or Lord, He doesn't say "God incarnate" or "Lord incarnate" and Elizabeth even says "the mother of my Lord" not "the mother of my Lord incarnate." I have no problem saying Mother of God Incarnate, I just dont see why it's necessary to change it, especially when an elementary understanding of Christianity necessitates that it be understood via the Incarnation.

I don't so much object to you leaving off the word "incarnate." I do wonder at your intent. Why do you object to using the term? Thomas was speaking directly to Jesus, so we know to whom he is referring. Yes, most people know who you mean when you say Mary is the Mother of God. Some don't.

If everyone knows that Jesus is God, that Jesus is Christ, that Christ is God, then what's wrong with the term Mother of Christ, Mother of Jesus?

 

[jckstraw72]

I believe great pains were made to ensure that Mary was not elevated above the status of all other believers. The fact that Mary is spoken of very little is not the only thing that hints at this, it is how Jesus addresses her when she is spoken to by Him.

Christ said blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it, which is exactly what Mary did. As far as I know she's the only it specifically says that about.

Luke 2:18-20 (King James Version)


18And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
19But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.



Luke 2:51
And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

 

[racer]

i mean seriously, who is it confusing to? do ppl honestly think that we teach that she is the origin of the Trinity or something like that? We wouldn't be Christians if we believed that.

It is a title of reverence and adulation. No, I don't think that most people believe you think she is the Mother of God the Father. It is simply the intent behind the title. Tell me this, does anybody call her Mother of the Holy Spirit?

 

[jckstraw72]

If everyone knows that Jesus is God, that Jesus is Christ, that Christ is God, then what's wrong with the term Mother of Christ, Mother of Jesus?

there's nothing wrong with those terms, and i said i ahve no problem with the term Mother of God Incarnate. Theotokos and Mother of God came out of a very specific theological debate, and we have preserved those terms as such. there just isnt any reason to go back and change our liturgies and what not when there really isn't anything confusing about the term. as i said, Mary is a human so OF COURSE she is the mother of the incarnate God. She couldn't be mother of Him in any other way.