Who's paying for the wall now?

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Ted
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Hi all,

Well, the latest update on who's footing the bill for the BIG wall... wait for it...wait for it

Trump privately presses for military to pay for border wall

I'm rather pleased that Congress only allotted him 1.6 billion dollars to fritter away on this dream wall of his. Seems Congress has outsmarted the 'smartest' president that ever was...again!

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 

Uber Genius

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Hi all,

Well, the latest update on who's footing the bill for the BIG wall... wait for it...wait for it

Trump privately presses for military to pay for border wall

I'm rather pleased that Congress only allotted him 1.6 billion dollars to fritter away on this dream wall of his. Seems Congress has outsmarted the 'smartest' president that ever was...again!

God bless,
In Christ, ted

While the cost of the wall is clear, the cost to society of not having a wall is harder to calculate, making it easier to be against it. I never found the argument for a wall compelling since the willingness to actually enforce laws we've had on the books for decades was never operationalized.

I am a fiscal conservative and hate the way both republicans and democrats spend money in DC!

That said, a courageous leader would have demanded that congress come back to Washington and pass a continuing resolution or he would veto the omnibus bill and give credit to the Dems for shutting down the government.
 
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Southernscotty

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If I was rich I would pay for it! Let's get America working and back on track and then we do, Then we can extend help to foreign countries and illegals who come here through due process.
 
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miamited

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Hi uber,

I also am not fully satisfied with how our government spends all of its funding, but I also realize that I'm not the only person living in the U.S. and that other people have needs that I may not have. I dislike that they had to give him 1.6 billion, but it's surely a lot less than the 25 billion or so that is claimed will be needed. Also, if you read the news attachment, at the end, you'll see that there are a lot of strings attached to the use of this money. For example, he cannot use if for any of the prototypes that he's already had built. Any new wall must be built with a design that was in use prior to early spring of last year.

For anyone interested in checking, there's quite a lot of evidence that illegal immigration doesn't cost us near what we have long thought that it did in terms of dollars spent to care for illegals. They aren't, for example, eligible for many of the programs that people claim they use. If they're working, they do pay taxes like any American citizen and must file a federal tax return like any other American to recover any overpayment of taxes just like any other American.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that if we would just enforce the laws that are on the books and work rather to assimilate immigrants into this country, they would be tax paying citizens of the U.S. pretty much like any other citizen. A lot of this noise about gangs really has little to do with illegal immigration. Most gang members on our soil today are U.S. citizens. Most rapists and murderers on our soil today are U.S. citizens. Americans are the most deadly people on the planet.

Now, before anyone responds back to me about some single or couple of cases where some illegal immigrant killed an American citizen, I'm speaking of total numbers here. When we count up the total number of people murdered in the U.S. and look to the citizenship of the perpetrator, you'll find very, very few who are illegal immigrants. After all, one must consider that illegal immigrants want to keep a low profile.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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TerryWoodenpic

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What chance the wall will ever be completed?
Most of the money will evaporate, as it always does.
A few more people will become rich on the back of it.
It will make no difference to illegals.
They will go around, under and over as always
 
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majj27

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Bezos and Zuckerberg need to pay for the wall.

Nah, the Mercers can pay for it, if we're going to be just floating rich folk names.

But don't worry, the US taxpayers will wind up paying for it. We all knew that much already.
 
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Albion

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Regardless of who pays for it I doubt it'll be Mexico.
But enough from me, wouldn't want to stir the pot too much.
If there is a wall at all, it necessarily means that Mexico is paying for it.

No, the federal government of Mexico won't be writing a big check, but that's what it means in terms of lost revenue to Mexico.
 
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True -- even if it's never built.

Well, that's my hope. That the boondoggle never comes to fruition in the first place. If we can just get Congress to continue being smarter than him for just 2.8 more years. There is the possibility that in this next election cycle cooler heads will prevail.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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redleghunter

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Nah, the Mercers can pay for it, if we're going to be just floating rich folk names.

But don't worry, the US taxpayers will wind up paying for it. We all knew that much already.
Yes I gave just two examples of 1 percenters. They need to pay for the wall as they are benefiting from cheap labor.
 
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majj27

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If there is a wall at all, it necessarily means that Mexico is paying for it.

No, the federal government of Mexico won't be writing a big check, but that's what it means in terms of lost revenue to Mexico.

That's... not how I would describe it. Mexico may be adversely affected by it, but the money lost by Mexico is not going to be heading into the US Treasury in order to defray the cost of the thing. We'll still be on the hook for building and maintaining it.
 
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sfs

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If there is a wall at all, it necessarily means that Mexico is paying for it.

No, the federal government of Mexico won't be writing a big check, but that's what it means in terms of lost revenue to Mexico.
So if I crash my car into my neighbor's car, he ends up paying me for a new car because he's lost money? I don't think that's how money works.
 
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We will pay for the wall. For every American that loses a job to an illegal criminal, they paid for their portion of the wall. For every American that loses a loved one to the illegal drugs that stream across the Mexican border, they paid for their portion of the wall. For every American that is murdered by an illegal criminal, they paid for their portion of the wall. Oh yes, we are paying for the wall in full.
 
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Ted
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We will pay for the wall. For every American that loses a job to an illegal criminal, they paid for their portion of the wall. For every American that loses a loved one to the illegal drugs that stream across the Mexican border, they paid for their portion of the wall. For every American that is murdered by an illegal criminal, they paid for their portion of the wall. Oh yes, we are paying for the wall in full.

Hi HIR,

You do know, don't you, that the lion's share of illegal drugs coming from Mexico don't come across at some wilderness point of the border, right? They are smuggled through in vehicles that cross the border at regular border crossings. The wall won't have any effect on this trade. Most people crossing the border at some wilderness point have a tough enough time bringing a backpack with water and a change of clothes. When you watch the documentaries, of which there are plenty, of people being stopped illegally crossing the border in the wilderness, they aren't carrying bales of drugs.

So, the part of your comment dealing with the illegal drugs won't be effected. If we're really serious about stopping the illegal drug trade, then we need to stop the demand. There are people who, if there is a need for any product, will find a way to fill that need for profit. So, the only way to stop such people from trading on our territory is to rid ourselves of the need for their product.

How many 8 track tape players were sold last year? There was a time that our cargo container ships were awash with 8 track tape players. Stereo units made for the home had them. Cars had them. There was a need for 8 track tape players. Today you'd be hard pressed to find a new one in any store anywhere. Nobody needs one. If South American cocaine producers sent 100 kilos of cocaine into America and nobody bought any, then they wouldn't do it again. Meth, heroin, other illegal psychotropic drugs, if there wasn't an illegal demand for them, there wouldn't be anyone going to all the trouble to bring them to America.

The Breaking Bad series was a perfect example of this. The character needed fast money. What did he do? He began trading in illegal narcotics. Why did this get him so much fast money? There was a big demand for his product. Narcos in South America see the population of the world, especially the U.S. market, as just one big market in which they know that if they can get their product to people, they'll get rich. So, the biggest part of the business is getting the drugs to the people. Some wall isn't going to stop them. They'll just figure out better ways to ship them in on container ships or fly them in to wilderness points where people will be ready to pick them up when dropped off.

If you've ever watched some of these new shows that document packages being mailed in from overseas, drug dealers have become very keen at creating ways in which to just mail drugs in. They will hollow out other products and fill them with their contraband. They have even made other products out of the contraband to be broken down by some processor over here.

Of all things that the wall is being touted as stopping, trust me, drugs isn't one of them. It may reduce the number of people who come across, but there are much easier and cheaper ways to stop people these days. Motion sensors and cameras and more staff will do that. It would be much cheaper to build small outposts of border agents every 50 miles along the border with drones to follow the illegal crossers until an agent can be on scene to apprehend them.

A good system of pole mounted cameras and motion sensors every half mile that are connected to a central observation office with the ability to send out a camera carrying drone to follow perpetrators as they cross the border should do the trick nicely. Such a system would be much cheaper and when no longer needed could be dismantled or abandoned leaving the land in pretty much the same shape it has always been. No wildlife is affected adversely and we don't have to look like we're building a prison wall around ourselves.

Once a pole station was activated, then someone in the central monitoring office would check out the cause of the activation, after all animals might also trigger the motion sensors. This could be done by a pole mounted camera or by sending out the drone stationed with the pole mounted system. A pole mount system might have 4 or 5 drones stationed with it so that there are extras if needed or one breaks down or crashes. If human movement is determined to be the cause of the activation, then the drone could get a zoom in picture of what's going on from a pretty far distance to keep it from being shot down or otherwise destroyed by the perpetrators. At this point the central monitoring station would notify the nearest border agent post to dispatch someone to apprehend while the drone continued to monitor their progress. The central monitoring station, through GPS tracking could actually send the coordinates of the activity to the navigation system in the vehicle and the agent could drive to within 10' or so of the exact location where the central monitoring station is watching the people make their way across the border. If there are border agent posts every 50 miles, then the most an agent would have to drive would be 25 miles and even accounting for rough terrain, shouldn't take more than an hour to get to where the activity is happening. At an average walking speed of say 3 mph that means that the perpetrator can be apprehended within 3 miles of the first motion sensor activation with a drone produced picture on his vehicle's navigation screen showing him exactly where they are and how they are progressing.

It's even possible that after the first 10 or 20 times this happens, when illegal crossers hear the drone, they'll just turn back. Knowing that their chances of spending the next several hours or days of their life in a deportation loop just shot up to 100%. We could even put speakers on the pole, that once the activity had been determined to be human movement, would call out, "Turn back now. You have been identified and you will be apprehended." All done for a lot less money and as the drones and speaker system began to be realized as a pretty effective tool in this battle. We could close down every other agent post as their post became less and less necessary. As things improved further, we could even drop back to an agent station every 200 miles with a helicopter to provide transportation to a hot spot.

Moving and pouring concrete or some panel system with all the foundation work required is just way more than we need to put into this operation.

I believe it's a workable plan and will not scar the landscape for generations to come.
 
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Hi all,

Let's be real about all this for just a moment. The wall is really only going to be a deterrent for people coming across the border at wilderness areas and some urban areas. A camera and motion sensor system monitored by a central station would be much more effective at this. Today, many of the urban areas have fences and they are always being cut or somehow made ineffective and so our president thinks that a big wall would do the trick.

With cameras and motion sensors, they can be mounted in a way that they would be pretty inaccessible to tampering before anyone noticed that someone was attempting to tamper with them. With inexpensive drones we now have the ability to actually watch people doing what they're doing without them having any way of preventing one from watching. We fight wars now half way around the globe from recliners in the mid-west because of this technology. Surely we can devise a similar system to monitor our border.

One office park in Waco Tx could have a force of 50 people monitoring activity 24 hours a day along our border with the ability to send out drones to check out and watch any activity and then send agents from some nearby field office to apprehend any people trying to make the crossing. The drones could keep the perpetrators under constant visual surveillance until the border agents actually got to them. Now, in urban areas we would certainly need faster response time and possibly a 200-300 yard clear zone between two fences so that when they were immediately seen crossing the first fence, someone could be their within 15 minutes when they got to the second fence. In these more populated urban areas, yes, there would likely be a lot more manpower needed. But, keep in mind that as the system became known and saw that it was effective and people began to realize that as soon as they heard the speakers calling out that they had been seen and would be apprehended that they would actually be apprehended, then we could begin relaxing a bit and scaling back the manpower.

All of this with a much reduced cost over building a maintaining some wall system. All of this using a system that when no longer needed, like the 8 track tape player, could just be gotten rid of with little effort and damage to the ecosystem of the area.

I'd be interested, and I know this changes the scope of this thread, in others pointing out problems with such a system.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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