Whodunnit?

[Redwolf]

Would you mind quoting the book, chapter, and verse from the Bible to enlighten the ignorant?

Much money is offered to those who can find it.

 

[Redwolf]

It is clear that you prefer the words of Justin over the word of God, who says............

Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.........

As for getting together to worship? Do it often, and rejoice in the Lord.

 

[Oblio]

Did you not read that the Lord Himself told the Apostles to keep the Feast of the Resurrection.

 

[Oblio]

TODAY THE ONE WHO HOLDS CREATION IN THE PALM OF HIS HAND
IS HELD IN THE TOMB.
A STONE COVERS THE ONE WHO COVERED THE HEAVENS WITH GLORY!
LIFE SLEEPS, AND HELL TREMBLES,
WHILE ADAM IS SET FREE FROM HIS BONDS.
GLORY TO YOUR DISPENSATION!
GLORY TO YOUR ALMIGHTY POWER, GRANTING US AN ETERNAL SABBATH://
YOUR ALL-HOLY RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD!

WHAT IS THIS SIGHT WE BEHOLD?
WHAT IS THIS PRESENT REST?
THE KING OF THE AGES, WHO THROUGH HIS PASSION
FULFILLED THE PLAN OF SALVATION,
KEEPS SABBATH IN THE TOMB, GRANTING US A NEW SABBATH!
LET US CRY ALOUD TO HIM:
ARISE, LORD, AND JUDGE THE EARTH!
FOR YOUR GREAT MERCY IS WITHOUT MEASURE
AND YOU REIGN FOREVER!

From Matins of Great and Holy Saturday

 

[Redwolf]

Did you not read that the Lord Himself told the Apostles to keep the Feast of the Resurrection.

I'm willing to look at where HE says that.
Thank you.
I know what HE told them to do in remembrance of HIM.

 

[Redwolf]

TODAY THE ONE WHO HOLDS CREATION IN THE PALM OF HIS HAND
IS HELD IN THE TOMB.
A STONE COVERS THE ONE WHO COVERED THE HEAVENS WITH GLORY!
LIFE SLEEPS, AND HELL TREMBLES,
WHILE ADAM IS SET FREE FROM HIS BONDS.
GLORY TO YOUR DISPENSATION!
GLORY TO YOUR ALMIGHTY POWER, GRANTING US AN ETERNAL SABBATH://
YOUR ALL-HOLY RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD!

WHAT IS THIS SIGHT WE BEHOLD?
WHAT IS THIS PRESENT REST?
THE KING OF THE AGES, WHO THROUGH HIS PASSION
FULFILLED THE PLAN OF SALVATION,
KEEPS SABBATH IN THE TOMB, GRANTING US A NEW SABBATH!
LET US CRY ALOUD TO HIM:
ARISE, LORD, AND JUDGE THE EARTH!
FOR YOUR GREAT MERCY IS WITHOUT MEASURE
AND YOU REIGN FOREVER!

From Matins of Great and Holy Saturday

That's very pretty.
But how does it negate the fourth commandment?

 

[Oblio]

Christ fullfilled the Sabbath, just as He fulfilled the the perfect Sacrifice. His rest on Great and Holy Saturday (today) grants us an eternal Sabbath, we (Jews or Gentiles) no longer need to keep the Sabbath Laws.

Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia !

 

[Oblio]

I know what HE told them to do in remembrance of HIM.

What you 'know' is in conflict with the 2000 year witness of the Church, the pillar and foundation of Truth.

 

[tall73]

Chapter LXVII.-Weekly Worship of the Christians.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,146 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,147 and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given,148 and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Two problems here.

a. It is a real stretch to say that they were keeping Sunday because it was the first day of the Creation week. He was familiar with the biblical reason for the Sabbath, which was due to its being the 7th day in honor of a completed creation. Now he is distorting this by applying significance to the first day which the Scriptures never did. The resurrection is more in line with the other witnesses on the subject, and even then we have very few texts before the second century, if any.


b. As to having taught them "these things" which were submitted, the problem is he is referring to all of the things in that section which he started pages ago, speaking of the teachings of Jesus. And in the others he actually QUOTED Jesus, where here he did not. The only Scriptural evidence he could give was to say it was the first day of creation, which goes against the setting aside of the 7th day by God. If he had a quote by Jesus, would he not have presented it as he did with the other teachings?

 

[tall73]

What you 'know' is in conflict with the 2000 year witness of the Church, the pillar and foundation of Truth.

It is not in conflict with the first 400 years when the majority kept both.
.

 

[Redwolf]

Christ fullfilled the Sabbath, just as He fulfilled the the perfect Sacrifice. His rest on Great and Holy Saturday (today) grants us an eternal Sabbath, we (Jews or Gentiles) no longer need to keep the Sabbath Laws.

Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia !

[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+3][SIZE=+1]“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”—1 John 3:4. [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

The law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ's sacrifice, you know, the cermonial/sacrificial law.
But, the Ten Commandments are binding. They are designed to point out sin, which is what laws do, and they do it effectively.

“Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets; I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished” (Mt. 5:17-18).

From the Catholic Catechism:

2053.........................2 This reply does not do away with the first: following Jesus Christ involves keeping the Commandments. The Law has not been abolished,3 but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment. In the three synoptic Gospels, Jesus' call to the rich young man to follow him, in the obedience of a disciple and in the observance of the Commandments, is joined to the call to poverty and chastity.4 The evangelical counsels are inseparable from the Commandments.

2054 Jesus acknowledged the Ten Commandments,

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2.htm

 

[Redwolf]

What you 'know' is in conflict with the 2000 year witness of the Church, the pillar and foundation of Truth.

The church has no problem with the Sabbath Day, it only has a problem with leaving it where it is supposed to be.

Not the Creator of Universe, in Genesis 2:1-3,-but the Catholic Church can claim the honor of having granted man a pause to his work every seven days."-S. C. Mosna, Storia della Domenica, 1969, pp. 366-367.

"The Pope is of great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws... The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." -Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Ribliotheca, "Papa," art. 2, translated. ​

"The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." "The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense withthe command of Christ."Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.)Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dictionary.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] [/FONT]

 

[Oblio]

From the Catholic Catechism:

Thanks, but what the RCC says has no bearing on me

 

[Redwolf]

Thanks, but what the RCC says has no bearing on me

But that is where you are more wrong than ever.

 

[Oblio]

I direct you to my faith designator

I am a member of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church !

 

[BrightCandle]

Did you not read that the Lord Himself told the Apostles to keep the Feast of the Resurrection.

You are making a claim not based on solid evidence. Justin M. claimed that Jesus and the Apostles taught them to keep Sunday, instead of Sabbath. Doesn't that sound suspicious, since there was not a new Sunday commandment issued from Jesus or the Apostles in the Bible? Additionally, even the EOC, continued to keep the Sabbath for around 500 years after the time of Christ. Why would the EOC do that, if the Sabbath was done away with, and new Sabbath was established right after Jesus died on the cross?

 

[Redwolf]

You are making a claim not based on solid evidence. Justin M. claimed that Jesus and the Apostles taught them to keep Sunday, instead of Sabbath. Doesn't that sound suspicious, since there is not new Sunday commandment from Jesus or the Apostles in the Bible? Additionally, even the EOC, continued to keep the Sabbath for around 500 years after the time of Christ. Why would the EOC do that, if the Sabbath was done away with, and new Sabbath was established right after Jesus died on the cross?

Yeah, why, indeed.

 

[Oblio]

Justin M. claimed that Jesus and the Apostles taught them to keep Sunday, instead of Sabbath. Doesn't that sound suspicious, since there is not new Sunday commandment from Jesus or the Apostles in the Bible?

Not at all, the Bible is not a rubrical text.

Additionally, even the EOC, continued to keep the Sabbath for around 500 years after the time of Christ.

Only in that we hold services on the Sabbath, we have not, and do not, keep the ceramonial Law as Judaisers do.

 

[icxn]

You are right we do not keep those we keep these:

But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Mt. 5:28)

Let what you say be simply `Yes' or `No'; anything more than this comes from evil. (Mt. 5:37)

and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; (Mt. 5:40)

But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment (Mt. 5:22) and "do not let the sun go down on your anger," (Eph. 4:26)

As for "dishonoring parents" our church services are full of:

"Through the prayers of our holy fathers, O Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and save us."

 

[StPaul]

Out of context.

The word Sabbath means rest.

Main Entry: Sab·bath
Pronunciation: 'sa-b&th
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sabat, from Old French & Old English, from Latin sabbatum, from Greek sabbaton, from Hebrew shabbAth, literally, rest
1 a : the seventh day of the week observed from Friday evening to Saturday evening as a day of rest and worship by Jews and some Christians
2 : a time of rest

Now all you have to do is understand that those days of rest Paul and Isaiah talk about, are not related to the Ten Commandments.

Then you go back and read again the statements of the RCC that claim what it did with the fourth commandment and after that, you should be all set.

It is beyond my ability to reason why they would make such changes when they are not necessary, according to the scripture you quote. Or, why they would admit to having made them. I think the magisterium would have caught on to that.
Don't you think?

But God said...........Remember THE Sabbath day to keep it holy.........and then HE tells you WHY.

Where is Scripture does it command me to read sabbath as not being sabbath?

If it is out of context, as you say, then maybe the command would be somewhere near those verses?

God Bless!