Whodunnit?

[Redwolf]

Beating a dead horse must be pretty doggone entertaining.

Sure the Sabbath is on Saturday. If you don't believe me, check the service schedule at your local synagogue.

But I'm not a Jew, I don't go to the synagogue, and I'm not commanded to observe the Jewish sabbath. I "esteem every day alike". My church meets on Sunday, so that's when I go.

Goodbye.

Presbyterian

T. C. Blake, D.D., Theology Condensed, pp.474, 475.
"The Sabbath is a part of the decalogue - the Ten Commandments. This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution . . . . Until, therefore, it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand . . . . The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath.

 

[Jipsah]

Presbyterian

You called?

"The Sabbath is a part of the decalogue

Didn't need a theologian for that, did we?

This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution

As I have already observed.

But I also observed that I am not a Jew, and am not commanded to observe the Jweish sabbath. I esteem every day alike, and am fully persuaded in my own mind. If you find that insufficient then you ought to take it up with St. Paul as soon as you get to Heaven. Until then, the Scripture stands.

We Presbyterians continue to meet on the Lord's Day, just as Christians have done for time out of mind.

Feel free to continue to beat that dead horse.

 

[Redwolf]

You called?

Didn't need a theologian for that, did we?

As I have already observed.

But I also observed that I am not a Jew, and am not commanded to observe the Jweish sabbath. I esteem every day alike, and am fully persuaded in my own mind. If you find that insufficient then you ought to take it up with St. Paul as soon as you get to Heaven. Until then, the Scripture stands.

We Presbyterians continue to meet on the Lord's Day, just as Christians have done for time out of mind.

Feel free to continue to beat that dead horse.

OK! Then let's change the subject for a min so you can think on and then tell me.............."What is a Jew".

And what does perpetuity mean?

You sound like someone who is quite serious about Christ. Blessings to you. I do not wish to change your mind about your beliefs. That is so very personal and between you and the Holy Spirit and I cannot do His work.

What did Paul say that has you adament that the Ten Commandments are no longer valid? Or, nine are and one isn't?
Thanks!

 

[Eruliel]

I don't think God cares which day we choose to celebrate the Sabbath, just so long as we can set aside a day to rest from our work, as he did. One day should be set aside for rest. I don't think it matters if it's Saturday, Sunday or Wednesday, just so long as we get the rest we need.
Slainte!
Eruliel

 

[Windmill]

1. Christ is my Sabbath rest, so I have not done away with the commandment.

2. Neither I, nor my church, consider Sunday to be "the Christian Sabbath". This is the gist of Mueller's point in the quote Redwolf provided.

Yes well, I suppose thats your opinion, I however, feel you could never justify that to God at all.

 

[Redwolf]

I don't think God cares which day we choose to celebrate the Sabbath, just so long as we can set aside a day to rest from our work, as he did. One day should be set aside for rest. I don't think it matters if it's Saturday, Sunday or Wednesday, just so long as we get the rest we need.
Slainte!
Eruliel

You take that up with him. He says it's the seventh day, because on that day He rested from all that He had made, and then He pronounced it holy. (Sancitified/hallowed it).

Then you may also wish to wonder why the RCC transferred the holiness from one day to another, without permission, and why most protestant churches agree that Saturday is the Sabbath, and it cannot be any other, because then God would have to start creation all over again, and you and I know that is ludicrous.

And then you also might ask yourself why He does not care what day when He clearly states which day and is He in the business of changing His mind and making deals that contradict Him.

 

[Windmill]

I don't think God cares which day we choose to celebrate the Sabbath, just so long as we can set aside a day to rest from our work, as he did. One day should be set aside for rest. I don't think it matters if it's Saturday, Sunday or Wednesday, just so long as we get the rest we need.
Slainte!
Eruliel

What would give you that idea?

[bible]Exodus 20:8-11[/bible]Notice it says the seventh day. That was what they called "Friday sunset to Saturday sunset" (in other words their saturday)

 

[Windmill]

You called?

Didn't need a theologian for that, did we?

As I have already observed.

But I also observed that I am not a Jew, and am not commanded to observe the Jweish sabbath. I esteem every day alike, and am fully persuaded in my own mind. If you find that insufficient then you ought to take it up with St. Paul as soon as you get to Heaven. Until then, the Scripture stands.

We Presbyterians continue to meet on the Lord's Day, just as Christians have done for time out of mind.

Feel free to continue to beat that dead horse.

[bible]Mark 2:27[/bible]Sabbath = made for man. The sabbath was created well before there was even a group called Jews.

 

[Oblio]

Then you may also wish to wonder why the RCC transferred the holiness from one day to another, without permission,

Nothing was transferred, it was Christ and His APostles that established worship on the day of His Holy Resurrection. If you think that the Sabbath is more Holy than the Resurrection of Christ, then you may have missed the Gospel.

 

[Oblio]

Ironic that we are discussing this on Great and Holy Saturday

The Noble Joseph ...

 

[Redwolf]

Nothing was transferred, it was Christ and His APostles that established worship on the day of His Holy Resurrection. If you think that the Sabbath is more Holy than the Resurrection of Christ, then you may have missed the Gospel.

You think?

Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. "To Tell You the Truth."

"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."​

Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50.

"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
"Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. "Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
"Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
​

Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927), p. 136.

"Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."
------------------------------------

Show me the scripture that says that the resurrection is ----- first of all holy ------- and second of all, holier than that which God has made holy.
Thank you so much.
---------------------------------

James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."

Makes you wonder, don't it?
​

 

[BrightCandle]

Nothing was transferred, it was Christ and His APostles that established worship on the day of His Holy Resurrection. If you think that the Sabbath is more Holy than the Resurrection of Christ, then you may have missed the Gospel.

Oblio, you are right in that the holiness of the Sabbath was not transferred to Sunday, churchmen did that gradually in the ensuing centuries after the time of Christ. You claim that Christ and the Apostles established Sunday worship, but there is no command from Christ or the Apostle to worship on Sunday. And in light of the fact that the Eastern Orthodox Church kept the Sabbath well into the 5th century, Sunday worship must have been a gradual development in Christendom for Sabbath worship to have continued so long by the EOC.

Christendom

"For although almost all churches throughout The World celebrated the sacred mysteries (the Lord's Supper) on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Allexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this." The footnote which accompanies the foregoing quotation explains the use of the word "Sabbath." It says: "That is, upon the Saturday. It should be observed, that Sunday is never called "the Sabbath' by the ancient Fathers and historians." Socrates, "Ecclestical History," Book 5, chap. 22, p. 289.

Constantinople

"The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria." Socrates, "Ecclesiastical History," Book 7, chap.19.

 

[Gwenyfur]

THe Sabbath is a day of REST and WORSHIP...

A time of family togetherness which is still observed by many in the protestant churches....
as well as corporate worship that follows on Sunday...

sheesh

 

[Oblio]

You claim that Christ and the Apostles established Sunday worship, but there is no command from Christ or the Apostle to worship on Sunday.

Actually there was a command, the cite has been quoted numerous times.

 

[BrightCandle]

THe Sabbath is a day of REST and WORSHIP...

A time of family togetherness which is still observed by many in the protestant churches....
as well as corporate worship that follows on Sunday...

sheesh

The Sabbath is the only day that was set aside by God for family and corporate worship, because the other six days, including the 1st day of the week, were set aside for work and secular activities.

 

[BrightCandle]

Actually there was a command, the cite has been quoted numerous times.

Would you mind quoting the book, chapter, and verse from the Bible to enlighten the ignorant?

 

[StPaul]

What did Paul say that has you adament that the Ten Commandments are no longer valid? Or, nine are and one isn't?
Thanks!

I don't know about the 10 Commandments, but he did say something regarding Sabbath:

Col. 2:16-17
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. "


I mean,... if it was the 'Sabbath' aspect of it that was so important to God, tell me why He would be displeased with it as Isaiah gives as an account of prophesy?

Isaiah 1:13:
"Offer sacrifice no more in vain: incense is an abomination to me. The new moons, and the sabbaths, and other festivals I will not abide, your assemblies are wicked. "


God Bless!

 

[Oblio]

Chapter LXVII.-Weekly Worship of the Christians.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,146 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,147 and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given,148 and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

 

[Redwolf]

I don't know about the 10 Commandments, but he did say something regarding Sabbath:

Col. 2:16-17
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. "


I mean,... if it was the 'Sabbath' aspect of it that was so important to God, tell me why He would be displeased with it as Isaiah gives as an account of prophesy?

Isaiah 1:13:
"Offer sacrifice no more in vain: incense is an abomination to me. The new moons, and the sabbaths, and other festivals I will not abide, your assemblies are wicked. "


God Bless!

Out of context.

The word Sabbath means rest.

Main Entry: Sab·bath
Pronunciation: 'sa-b&th
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sabat, from Old French & Old English, from Latin sabbatum, from Greek sabbaton, from Hebrew shabbAth, literally, rest
1 a : the seventh day of the week observed from Friday evening to Saturday evening as a day of rest and worship by Jews and some Christians
2 : a time of rest

Now all you have to do is understand that those days of rest Paul and Isaiah talk about, are not related to the Ten Commandments.

Then you go back and read again the statements of the RCC that claim what it did with the fourth commandment and after that, you should be all set.

It is beyond my ability to reason why they would make such changes when they are not necessary, according to the scripture you quote. Or, why they would admit to having made them. I think the magisterium would have caught on to that.
Don't you think?

But God said...........Remember THE Sabbath day to keep it holy.........and then HE tells you WHY.

 

[Redwolf]

THe Sabbath is a day of REST and WORSHIP...

A time of family togetherness which is still observed by many in the protestant churches....
as well as corporate worship that follows on Sunday...

sheesh

You can worship on any old day you want, and you should...........

However, Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy...........is a whole 'nother apple.