Who yokes with who?

[shernren]

With all due respect, while I'm sure what you're describing has and does happen, this is not what I saw. There'd be a single post from a creationist, followed by several from athiests, many questioning Christianity, and when a TE jumped in it was to answer to the evo/creat issue and jump on the creationist.

I'm not saying all TE's do this, just as I don't appreciate the lumping together of all YEC's. I'm saying I observed it in a couple threads. I just wonder what the purpose of posting there is for some???

It would seem to me that this area is the best place for Christian Evolutionists and Christian Creationists to debate evo vs creat amongst ourselves, and the Evo/Creat forum would be more of an outreach place of discussion where the Christians stand a little more united.

It doesn't help if anyone is insulting anyone, and the Creationist I saw certainly was doing this.

Ok, I might not have seen the exact thread you were talking about. I am interested to do so. link?

 

[Pats]

Ok, I might not have seen the exact thread you were talking about. I am interested to do so. link?

The main one I was thinking of I cannot find now. I'm wondering if it went really bad and got whisked away. Sometimes they'll do that instead of locking them. If I come across it again, I'll either post it here or pm ya.

Thanks.
Pats

 

[gluadys]

I think this is the wrong attitude to have. After all, this is a Christian forum. Every place on this forum should be a place for outreach. If someone becomes hostile as a result of this outreach, then that hostility should be met head on and dealt with. I’m sure that those who start the hostility are in the minority, at least to begin with.

Well, as my grandma used to say, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I don't see generating hostility as a good evangelistic outreach. After all, the gospel is supposed to be good news.

 

[Dracil]

I think this is the wrong attitude to have. After all, this is a Christian forum. Every place on this forum should be a place for outreach. If someone becomes hostile as a result of this outreach, then that hostility should be met head on and dealt with. I’m sure that those who start the hostility are in the minority, at least to begin with.

And this is the problem with Creationism.

It's seen as nothing more than an evangelism tool.

It's no wonder Creationists continually fail when the discussion turns scientific, which is the crux of the Crevo debate. This then backfires on the evangelism as it then serves to reinforce in the minds of non-Christians that to be Christian is to be Creationist is to be ignorant of science and reality.

And then they definitely will not give Christianity a look.

You don't convert someone by bashing their head repeatedly with a Bible. You start by opening a common point of communication, and in the C&E forum, that begins with a proper understanding of science.

 

[Pats]

Glaudys, it is not required to be hotsitle in order to debate a point.

Dracil, I'm refering to non-Christians who bring up spirituality and God in their posts. There's no reason that I can see why those posts can't be addressed.

I don't see Creationism as purely an evangalistic tool, or as one at all necessarily. I see it as our origin. I see many posts in all places on this forum where questions are being posed that can be answered evangilisticlly and I would take the opportunity to do so no matter wich forum it was in.

 

[Dracil]

Any post bringing up spirituality and God in their posts in C&E belong in GA. And I report them as necessary.

I don't talk about music in the Gaming forum.

I don't talk about apologetics outside of General Apologetics.

 

[Pats]

Any post bringing up spirituality and God in their posts in C&E belong in GA. And I report them as necessary.

Maybe it's my mistake, but how can one discuss Creation at all without discussing the Creator?

It's the Creation/Evolution forum, right? To me this does not imply that it is only scientific, though that is the main body of discussion. I don't see it in the rules not to discuss the Creator, and that is very spiritual and not very scientific.

 

[Dracil]

Technically speaking, the Creator in the Crevo discussion is not necessarily God. See: Raelians.

But I should clarify. When I said "bringing up ... God" I'm talking more about talking about discussions on the existence/non-existence of God.

And yes, there is a rule about starting threads in inappropriate forums. Apologetics in C&E is inappropriate because there's a better forum for that. From that, since threads cannot be started about apologetics in C&E then, any post that tries to discuss apologetics there is then off-topic, and is also against the rules.

 

[Dracil]

I mean, it's pretty common sense.

If it's something like, "I believe God brought the animals to the ark" of course that's fine. I may think it's stupid, but it's certainly not against the rules.

But if it's something like "Evolutionists are gonna burn in Hell" or "You only believe in evolution because you've been decieved by Satan" or "Creationism is impossible because God simply does not exist" then there's a problem.

 

[Pats]

I mean, it's pretty common sense.

If it's something like, "I believe God brought the animals to the ark" of course that's fine. I may think it's stupid, but it's certainly not against the rules.

But if it's something like "Evolutionists are gonna burn in Hell" or "You only believe in evolution because you've been decieved by Satan" or "Creationism is impossible because God simply does not exist" then there's a problem.

I think I see what you are trying to say here. What I am saying is that discussions including Creation and ID are going to include to topic of God, a Creator, or Martian forefathers (LOL). I see people questioning religion continually on that forum without the mods getting involved, so your interpretation of the rules may be more strict than the mod's there view them.

 

[gluadys]

Glaudys, it is not required to be hotsitle in order to debate a point.

Oh, I agree whole-heartedly. But the point I was raising is that it is also not required to rouse hostility in the person you wish to reach out to evangelically.

Sadly, I get the feeling that some Christians (very few I hope) who attempt cybernet evangelisation on creo-evo boards are less concerned with bringing non-Christian supporters of evolution to Christ, than in scoring a martyrdom point by arousing needless anger.

The sort of phrases Dracil mentioned are examples.

And I do find most creationists know and care enough to avoid phrases which non-Christians can only interpret as insults. Unfortunately it doesn't take more than a few occurrences of this sort to make a non-Christian write off all Christians.

 

[Remus]

Well, as my grandma used to say, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I don't see generating hostility as a good evangelistic outreach. After all, the gospel is supposed to be good news.

I've seen it happen before where someone got a bit off topic and was asking honest questions and their questions weren't addressed with the excuse given that it was off-topic and in the wrong forum. Good thing too, someone might have gotten hostile and no telling what would happen then.

 

[Remus]

And this is the problem with Creationism.

It's seen as nothing more than an evangelism tool.

It's no wonder Creationists continually fail when the discussion turns scientific, which is the crux of the Crevo debate. This then backfires on the evangelism as it then serves to reinforce in the minds of non-Christians that to be Christian is to be Creationist is to be ignorant of science and reality.

And then they definitely will not give Christianity a look.

You don't convert someone by bashing their head repeatedly with a Bible. You start by opening a common point of communication, and in the C&E forum, that begins with a proper understanding of science.

The only thing that I can conclude is that there was a breakdown in communication. I have no clue where you got all of that from what I posted.

Any post bringing up spirituality and God in their posts in C&E belong in GA. And I report them as necessary.

Perhaps the communication breakdown is going both ways. Let’s say there’s a thread in the C&E forum where someone says something like “I could believe in a God that used evolution, but <insert some problem here>”. I would hope that you or some other TE would be all over that and not hesitate to address the problem that that person had. From what you’ve said so far, it sounds like you wouldn’t do so since you think it is in the wrong forum and you would actually report a post that did address it. Is this accurate?

 

[gluadys]

The only thing that I can conclude is that there was a breakdown in communication. I have no clue where you got all of that from what I posted.


Perhaps the communication breakdown is going both ways. Let’s say there’s a thread in the C&E forum where someone says something like “I could believe in a God that used evolution, but <insert some problem here>”. I would hope that you or some other TE would be all over that and not hesitate to address the problem that that person had. From what you’ve said so far, it sounds like you wouldn’t do so since you think it is in the wrong forum and you would actually report a post that did address it. Is this accurate?

I would answer the question briefly, then suggest a more appropriate forum or a pm.

Interestingly, I find many atheists have had a YECist upbringing and really believe the fundamentalist theology is the only correct Christian theology. Some have as many prejudices against a more open theological stance as YECists do. They feel that opting for a Christianity that is not YECist is a cop-out and just evading the only alternative: atheism.

Believe me, that is a difficult position to crack. It is certainly essential in such cases to avoid the issue of creation/evolution altogether and bring the person to Christ on a different basis altogether.

 

[Dracil]

Perhaps the communication breakdown is going both ways. Let&#8217;s say there&#8217;s a thread in the C&E forum where someone says something like &#8220;I could believe in a God that used evolution, but <insert some problem here>&#8221;. I would hope that you or some other TE would be all over that and not hesitate to address the problem that that person had. From what you&#8217;ve said so far, it sounds like you wouldn&#8217;t do so since you think it is in the wrong forum and you would actually report a post that did address it. Is this accurate?

I suggest you read the later responses, in particular the one where I clarify the decision as to what gets reported is pretty common sense.

 

[Remus]

I would answer the question briefly, then suggest a more appropriate forum or a pm.

I can ask for nothing more. I don't see that this is the typical response though. Perhaps we'll see more of it now that it's been brought up.

I suggest you read the later responses, in particular the one where I clarify the decision as to what gets reported is pretty common sense.

I did read them but I'm still not clear on your position. So you would not report such a post, but would you help the person or not?

And what about the other part where you ranted on me about bashing people over the head with the Bible? Was that the appropriate response to me? All I'm trying to do is encourage more outreach to those that I belive ya'll might be able to reach.

 

[Dracil]

Having been on the other side, attempting to evangelize me/others on a non-apologetics forum IS the equivalent of being bashed on the head with a Bible. It's annoying, it shows your true colors there (to evangelize, rather than to remain on-topic and have an open mind on the Crevo debate), which creates ill will, and will push me away further. So yes, I stand by that statement.

As for the problem, it depends on the problem. If it's something out of the PRATT list, they will be referred to the PRATT list. If it's a genuine question that I can answer, then I'll give a response as to why it's wrong.

 

[Remus]

Having been on the other side, attempting to evangelize me/others on a non-apologetics forum IS the equivalent of being bashed on the head with a Bible. It's annoying,

It seems to me that you find a lot of things annoying. Perhaps the problem isn't with others. And I'm sorry, but if someone gets annoyed because the see someone evangelize to someone else, then perhaps a Christian forum isn't the place they should be.

it shows your true colors there

Like I've been hiding something? Look out people, Remus believes that witnessing is more important than staying on-topic. Shame on me.

(to evangelize, rather than to remain on-topic

Oh btw, you're off topic in this thread. Why is it okay to do it in this situation but not when it comes to someone's salvation?

and have an open mind on the Crevo debate),

Oh, I'm closed minded now? Good grief.

which creates ill will, and will push me away further.

I find it ironic that you accuse me of creating ill will.

If it's a genuine question that I can answer, then I'll give a response as to why it's wrong.

But you just went off on me agian telling me how annoying this is, yet you would do it?

 

[Pats]

Having been on the other side, attempting to evangelize me/others on a non-apologetics forum IS the equivalent of being bashed on the head with a Bible. It's annoying, it shows your true colors there (to evangelize, rather than to remain on-topic and have an open mind on the Crevo debate), which creates ill will, and will push me away further. So yes, I stand by that statement.

As for the problem, it depends on the problem. If it's something out of the PRATT list, they will be referred to the PRATT list. If it's a genuine question that I can answer, then I'll give a response as to why it's wrong.

We're not talking about walking around beating people over the head with a Bible here. We're talking about answering questions about Christianity, the existance of God, etc. that may come up in C&E.

Any of us should always be ready to talk about these things whenever they are asked. Look at the thread down there right now about who Cain's sister was. The whole thing is about God and I don't see the mods shutting it down.

 

[Dracil]

It seems to me that you find a lot of things annoying. Perhaps the problem isn't with others. And I'm sorry, but if someone gets annoyed because the see someone evangelize to someone else, then perhaps a Christian forum isn't the place they should be.


Like I've been hiding something? Look out people, Remus believes that witnessing is more important than staying on-topic. Shame on me.

Oh btw, you're off topic in this thread. Why is it okay to do it in this situation but not when it comes to someone's salvation?


Oh, I'm closed minded now? Good grief.


I find it ironic that you accuse me of creating ill will.


But you just went off on me agian telling me how annoying this is, yet you would do it?

If your goal is to twist my words into the worst possible interpretation possible, then congratulations, I'm not going to bother. *shrug*

But seriously, there's no reason to be so defensive/take it so personally when I talk about what it's like to be preached to. And it's not like I'm the only person who gets annoyed when I'm preached to, whether the preacher is Christian or a militant atheist.

Try learning from Pats.