• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Who Wrote The Gospel Attributed to Matthew?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by JWO, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. JWO

    JWO FaithWithoutWorks IsDead

    70
    +7
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Unless and until you can provide the two or three witnesses' testimonies to Shaul's conversion, the case of Shaul's conversion from ravening wolf to docile lamb remains in limbo. At best, all you can prove is that some have indeed been fed by Shaul. The quality of that feeding leaves much to be desired. The very same "set-apart" man claims that circumcision is mutilation... and then he circumcises poor Timothy... after which act, Shaul says, Jesus would profit Timothy not at all.


    But no one is questioning the fact that Peter was chosen by Jesus. And Jesus tells us three times that Peter is chosen to feed His sheep.

    Which makes this next quote almost hysterically funny:

    That post's extracts doesn't apply to me, since I have no reason to sugar-coat it to that degree... or really, at all, having nothing to gain by guile.

    I believe that all Pharisees are nothing less than the Talmudists who say the most repulsive things about my Lord. Jesus called the Pharisees whited sepulchers filled with dead man's bones, and says that they make their converts twice the children of hell than they are themselves.

    Jesus tells us very plainly to beware of the leavening of the Pharisees. Since truly I believe the words that Jesus said, I am determined to take His word for it, and do just that.

    Therefore, what I DON'T do is rob Jesus to pay Shaul.
     
  2. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +29,619
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Who are you referring to?
     
  3. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +29,619
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Another false dilemma unless one denies the Bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ. You make an either or assertion without considering Jesus walked the earth Bodily as the Risen Lord for 40 days instructing the disciples and apostles (Acts 1:3). During this time it is feasible He taught the apostles the events they did not personally "all" witness.
     
  4. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +29,619
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Speculation leading to a false dilemma conclusion.
     
  5. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +29,619
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Different eye witness accounts give us more perspective.

    This is not hard to understand as good journalists, detectives and cameramen do the same today. Having differences does not constitute contradictions.

    What does your Biblical canon look like?
     
  6. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +8,980
    Anabaptist
    I don't think you hope that. fwiw.

    Many of the assertions 'claim' evidence found on their website, very deceptively, like jws or mormons claim they follow the same Jesus as the believing Jews in the first century and the ekklesia who are immersed in Jesus Name today, but they don't....

    i.e. test everything until you know it is truth or not,
    and once you have tested a group and realize it is not abiding in Jesus nor in His Word, it is much easier to deal with their erroneous statements...
     
  7. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +29,619
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    The Jewish history is mixed. Meaning high ranking Jewish Sanhedrin most likely spoke the local Aramaic, formal Henrew, Hellenized Greek and some Latin when the Romans ruled. Greek was the lingua franca for business.

    Jesus living in Nazareth with nearby Hellenized Gentile cities was probably exposed to Greek if Joseph sold his wares to Gentiles. Jesus would know the Hebrew of TaNaKh and the local Aramaic dialect too.

    So not seeing the point the OP is making as Galilee, Samaria and Judea would be a multilingual society.

    Edit: forgot the link. What Language or Languages Did Jesus Speak?

    NB: There were three languages used on the sign over Christ's cross. Latin, Greek and Aramaic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  8. JWO

    JWO FaithWithoutWorks IsDead

    70
    +7
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    1 Corinthians 7:40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

    Clearly, Shaul didn't think he was inspired.

    [staff edited]

    Jesus is speaking about Iscariot, here.

    John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

    Perdition means Hades, which is another name for Apollo. And it's not the SON of Apollo who's coming out of the pit, but Apollo himself.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    Nor is there any great snatch happening to take you out of the great tribulation if you don't believe Jesus Words and do what He tells you to do.

    Yes, thank you! Which proves my point about Matthew being written by someone who was actually there... meaning Peter is the writer of not only what Mark copied, but what is attributed to Matthew, in order to weaken Peter in his status as a law keeper and feeder of the sheep of Jesus the Christ.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2017
  9. JWO

    JWO FaithWithoutWorks IsDead

    70
    +7
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Not all spiritual... aka deep things... are good.

    Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
    24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

    A house built on sand doesn't do what Jesus says.
     
  10. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +29,619
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Who witnessed your conversion? Do you count as a witness? And I'd like to see the TaNaKh quote where a conversion must be witnessed.

    You deny Paul was an apostle of Jesus Christ. Perhaps we should clear that up first.

    Of course, but you don't see Paul as an apostle of Jesus Christ?
     
  11. JWO

    JWO FaithWithoutWorks IsDead

    70
    +7
    United States
    Christian
    Private

    But we do know what Jesus says about Pharisees and their converts.

    Be zealous and repent.
     
  12. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +29,619
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Responded to the wrong post. Apologies.
     
  13. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +29,619
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Matthew was there and walked with Christ and Peter. Oh my how did you try to wrest what I wrote.

    Why is Matthew ruled out as the writer of Matthew?

    Or should I ask why do you think Matthew was not an Apostle?
     
  14. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +29,619
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Clearly you took Paul out of context.

    Good heavens man what are you talking about.
     
  15. JWO

    JWO FaithWithoutWorks IsDead

    70
    +7
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Luke's compilation differs in several crucial areas... even moreso, if he wrote Acts. For starters:

    Matthew 1:6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

    Luke 3:31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,

    Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. Acts 2:And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

    John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when He had so said, He shewed unto them His hands and His side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent Me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

    Before I post any more, tell me, do you consider these to be meaningless differences?
     
  16. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +8,980
    Anabaptist
    Definite mis-representations or conclusions
     
  17. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +29,619
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Mary's blood line to David.

    Both are accurate. The Luke 24 account is a telescoped version as he was concluding the gospel account. Luke chapter "25" starts at Acts 1.

    I'm sure you already know the difference of the Indwelling Holy Spirit and being clothed from on High.
     
  18. JWO

    JWO FaithWithoutWorks IsDead

    70
    +7
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    John says Peter was the first apostle that Jesus chose to travel with Him in order to learn what Jesus believed.

    But John DOESN'T say that Shaul was, and neither does the writer of Matthew. Mark doesn't even say Shaul was, and Mark travelled with Shaul in Rome, remember? Ditto, for Luke.

    James was chosen by the Apostles to be leader of the church in Jerusalem, and James speaks unfailingly against Shaul's teachings... point blank. Which makes me look askance at Acts, in and of itself.

    Now, you asked if anyone had witnessed my conversion. But, your case against me is misdirection, since I'm not the one who asked to be seen as a leader and a witness to something new. What I know is nothing other than what Jesus says. And for that I am called a member of the Jesus cult. (shrug) Wisdom is justified of her children.

    But if I were attempting to pass myself off as a prophet, I would expect to be questioned at length about my conversion. In fact, I'd be shocked if they never asked to see my resume at all, but just accepted me for what I'd said of myself. And if I'd and fulfilled Matthew 23:34, as Shaul did... I would never even expect to be taken seriously... much less would I try to live among AND EVEN PRESUME TO TEACH the people I'd been trying to exterminate.
     
  19. PeterDona

    PeterDona Active Member Supporter

    430
    +98
    Catholic
    Celibate
    Strong disagreements. I guess they should redo those Carbon 14 datings. :ebil:
     
  20. JWO

    JWO FaithWithoutWorks IsDead

    70
    +7
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Exactly my point... walking with Jesus makes someone worthy of the name Apostle. If all Shaul ever heard was hear-say, and apparently even that was from Luke... which makes the waxed string between the tomato-soup cans even longer... and Luke chose the sources and even picked among them for what he wanted to report... then what makes Shaul a fit candidate, by Jesus' own rules? Jesus says we will believe in Jesus because of what Jesus' hand-picked said about Jesus. Shaul tosses all of that out, and preaches a whole new religion.

    As for your last two questions: Read the OP, please, thank you in advance. Hint: my thoughts are the footnote.
     
Loading...