Who Would You Like to See Posting Here Again?

klutedavid

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Not true.

Ancient hominids were both more physical than modern humans, and much life modern day non human primates know to be careful of large predators.

Ancient cities had walls, but it wasn't because of wild animals... it was to protect from the most dangerous thing: other humans.

There are still populations of modern humans with very limited technology, but they don't need walls to survive. The stone ax and the spear are considerably more ancient than our species.

If you don't believe that animals can find new forms to adapt to new environments... let me show you a picture of Canis lupus, the mighty timber wolf, unchanged from its natural form:
View attachment 311777
I disagree with everything you wrote.

No such thing as an ancient hominid, just lots of monkeys.

Monkeys don't run around on the ground very often, they stay close to the trees. Otherwise, game over monkey. Everything in Africa runs very fast or lives in trees. Man cannot run, jump, hide, or escape a pride of lions.

Ancient cities always were fenced or walled to keep out predators. Night time is when the predators hunt. Unfortunately, man can't see at night like lions. Mwhaaaaaaaaa.

In India people get taken by tigers all the time. Fences are a necessity and especially for mothers and kids. Women don't run fast and especially when carrying a child.

Don't exclude the women and children in your ancient dream.

Stone axes don't work against six lions that have just spotted you, walking through the long grass.

I am not talking about species of dogs, that change form but are still. Genetically the same species. We are talking about a dog evolving into another species altogether, with a different genetic signature.
 
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Shemjaza

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I disagree with everything you wrote.

No such thing as an ancient hominid, just lots of monkeys.

We have their bones. You can ignore the evidence for evolution all you like, but there are absolutely extinct creatures who walked on their hind legs with a mix of traits found in modern non-humans apes and modern humans.

Monkeys don't run around on the ground very often, they stay close to the trees. Otherwise, game over monkey. Everything in Africa runs very fast or lives in trees. Man cannot run, jump, hide, or escape a pride of lions.

Humans have spears and fire. Humans and other hominids work in teams are are basically pretty large for primates.

Ancient cities always were fenced or walled to keep out predators. Night time is when the predators hunt. Unfortunately, man can't see at night like lions. Mwhaaaaaaaaa.

Ever heard of hunter gatherer communities? Nomads? Tent communities?

Also, you were describing walls, not fences.


In India people get taken by tigers all the time. Fences are a necessity and especially for mothers and kids. Women don't run fast and especially when carrying a child.

How often, really? These are ambush predators and humans have always known how to deal with them. Ancient pre-technology comunities killed bears, tigers and lions.

Don't exclude the women and children in your ancient dream.

Small tribal communities work as a team to keep track of the vulnerable members, or they don't survive.

Stone axes don't work against six lions that have just spotted you, walking through the long grass.

Yes... but lions don't teleport, and primates aren't stupid. If you get into that situation, you will die. But if you are careful and courageous then a lion tooth is an impressive trophy.

I am not talking about species of dogs, that change form but are still. Genetically the same species. We are talking about a dog evolving into another species altogether, with a different genetic signature.
Dogs are still genetically compatible and so are mostly considered wolves from a species point of view... but they have absolutely changed genetically from their ancestral population.

Dogs have come from wolves in less than 20000 years... humans and Neanderthals were also genetically compatible, but were separated by hundreds of thousands of years. The evidence for thew variation from a common ancestor with chimps is millions of years.
 
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klutedavid

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We have their bones. You can ignore the evidence for evolution all you like, but there are absolutely extinct creatures who walked on their hind legs with a mix of traits found in modern non-humans apes and modern humans.
Most I have seen are probably extinct monkeys.
Humans have spears and fire. Humans and other hominids work in teams are are basically pretty large for primates.
Not when they first let go of the branch. More than likely, they were without spears and fire for a very long time. At a guess, ten thousand years. Not sure what edible things a monkey would find on a savannah?
Ever heard of hunter gatherer communities? Nomads? Tent communities?
Not in Africa, the place is overrun with predators. You go set up a tent in the vicinity of a pride of lions. Better still cook some meat on an open fire and see how long you last.
Also, you were describing walls, not fences.
That's one of the problems, the oldest cities known had stone walls.
How often, really? These are ambush predators and humans have always known how to deal with them. Ancient pre-technology comunities killed bears, tigers and lions.
Not back when they were swinging from the branches they didn't . You need to explain how some kind of primate, left the branches and foraged on the savannah.
Small tribal communities work as a team to keep track of the vulnerable members, or they don't survive.
Not sure if those little tribes would survive on the savannah.
Yes... but lions don't teleport, and primates aren't stupid. If you get into that situation, you will die. But if you are careful and courageous then a lion tooth is an impressive trophy.
Then again, if a pride of lions picked up your scent from some previous kills. Then you are a marked tribe and survival would be extremely difficult.
Dogs are still genetically compatible and so are mostly considered wolves from a species point of view... but they have absolutely changed genetically from their ancestral population.
I think you can mate a dog with a grey wolf. Not sure how genetically different they are.
Dogs have come from wolves in less than 20000 years... humans and Neanderthals were also genetically compatible, but were separated by hundreds of thousands of years. The evidence for thew variation from a common ancestor with chimps is millions of years.
I would need to do some research on Neanderthals. I have met a few during my life, so they are not an extinct species.
 
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klutedavid

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You give em an inch and they take a mile.
Exactly, that's what is wrong with the world. Inquisitions kept the population low. No inquisition and monkeys breed too fast. We are an inch from 8,000,000,000 people on this planet.

I have read journals that state that the earth likely, could not support 2,000,000,000 people in the long term.

We are generating our own mass extinction event, the clock is ticking.

Your choice, inquisitions or extinction.

Mwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
 
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Shemjaza

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Most I have seen are probably extinct monkeys.
Simply false.

Bigger than chimps and walking upright with larger brains than any non human primate.

Not when they first let go of the branch. More than likely, they were without spears and fire for a very long time. At a guess, ten thousand years. Not sure what edible things a monkey would find on a savannah?

I thing you have a fundamentally flawed perspective on the timeline.

The first savanna hominids were already large apes... not itty, bitty monkeys.

Not in Africa, the place is overrun with predators. You go set up a tent in the vicinity of a pride of lions. Better still cook some meat on an open fire and see how long you last.

You are trivially wrong. A two second search found multiple instances of African nomads.

That's one of the problems, the oldest cities known had stone walls.

How is that a problem?

A stone wall is to keep out raiders and armies.

Not back when they were swinging from the branches they didn't . You need to explain how some kind of primate, left the branches and foraged on the savannah.

Chimps already use the savanna as a form of travel between forests. Australopithecus was better adapted to the savanna with it's upright gait and probably more developed brain.

In addition, you accept that these extinct "monkeys" existed and we know they lived in the savanna.

Not sure if those little tribes would survive on the savannah.

People who don't use many guns still live there. Humans have lived there for eons.

Then again, if a pride of lions picked up your scent from some previous kills. Then you are a marked tribe and survival would be extremely difficult.

Except that humans and other primates have always shared territory with large cats, and they are definitely dangerous... but so are we.

I think you can mate a dog with a grey wolf. Not sure how genetically different they are.
I would need to do some research on Neanderthals. I have met a few during my life, so they are not an extinct species.
The structure of dogs is genetic in origin. That's the genetic difference right there.

We have isolated Neanderthal DNA and it is extremely similar to human, but had many fundamental differences as well. We can even find how much modern people have as remnants of the time the two species mixed.
 
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klutedavid

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Simply false.

Bigger than chimps and walking upright with larger brains than any non human primate.
When the monkey first started to wander from the tree, the monkey was not walking upright. Think it through. The monkey can't be standing upright in the tree?
I thing you have a fundamentally flawed perspective on the timeline.
I believe you have extrapolated beyond what we can actually observe.
The first savanna hominids were already large apes... not itty, bitty monkeys.
Mankind in ancient times was much smaller than we are now. Thousands of years ago, the average size of a human male was around 5ft. Much less than we are in the modern era.
You are trivially wrong. A two second search found multiple instances of African nomads.
Of course, you found nomad tribes. But the nomad tribes cannot be in the vicinity of large predators. Certainly not wandering around on the savannah.

We have nomads in our country and they are ancient. No predators here. So mum and the kids can travel by foot.
How is that a problem?
I would have assumed that wooden fences would be easier to build than stone walls.
A stone wall is to keep out raiders and armies.
And predators.
Chimps already use the savanna as a form of travel between forests. Australopithecus was better adapted to the savanna with it's upright gait and probably more developed brain.
Chimps may not have travelled across parts of the savannah, when predator numbers were much higher.
In addition, you accept that these extinct "monkeys" existed and we know they lived in the savanna.
Monkeys don't live on savannahs, it is far too dangerous. There is no food for a monkey on a savannah. I told you this before. You no listen.

Monkeys eat fruit, berries, things that grow on trees. Monkey don't graze on grass.
People who don't use many guns still live there. Humans have lived there for eons.
I need to know when man's ancestor first left the branches. To forage on the savannah. What that ancestor monkey was was after on the savannah, I have no idea?
The structure of dogs is genetic in origin. That's the genetic difference right there.
There is a an observational difference but same species. Dogs are wolves.

We have isolated Neanderthal DNA and it is extremely similar to human, but had many fundamental differences as well. We can even find how much modern people have as remnants of the time the two species mixed.
 
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Shemjaza

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When the monkey first started to wander from the tree, the monkey was not walking upright. Think it through. The monkey can't be standing upright in the tree?

Yes, but humans aren't from a separate group of monkeys who leapt straight from the trees onto the open savanna. They are from the same family of apes as chimps, who transitioned to a mix of forest dwelling and travelling into the savanna.

I believe you have extrapolated beyond what we can actually observe.

You can believe that all you like, but it's irrelevant to the point.

The point is that you mistaken about what you are disagreeing with. The evolutionary timeline from the genetics and fossils doesn't show humans coming from little monkeys on the savanna, it shows large tool using apes.

Mankind in ancient times was much smaller than we are now. Thousands of years ago, the average size of a human male was around 5ft. Much less than we are in the modern era.

Tool use and intelligence is the great equaliser. Humans have been hunting and killing predators since long before we have sophisticated technology.

Of course, you found nomad tribes. But the nomad tribes cannot be in the vicinity of large predators. Certainly not wandering around on the savannah.

We have nomads in our country and they are ancient. No predators here. So mum and the kids can travel by foot.

The San people traditionally kill and eat lions.

It's obviously more dangerous than an antelope, but it has the added advantage of removing the lion threat.

I would have assumed that wooden fences would be easier to build than stone walls.

And you would be right... so why didn't the native Americans build stone walls to keep out bears?

And predators.

It would certainly do that, but there is no evidence that it is anything like a primary purpose.

In the same areas where you are declaring that stone walls were necessary to keep out predators, nomadic shepherds would stay outside with their flocks.

Chimps may not have travelled across parts of the savannah, when predator numbers were much higher.

Can you justify that?

Because your entire argument is that a larger, faster ape couldn't do what we see chimps doing right now.

Obviously they wouldn't settle near lions if they could avoid it. But chimps are in danger from leopards in the African forests and they find ways to get around them.

Monkeys don't live on savannahs, it is far too dangerous. There is no food for a monkey on a savannah. I told you this before. You no listen.

Monkeys eat fruit, berries, things that grow on trees. Monkey don't graze on grass.

We have their bones, they lived there.

There's plenty of food on the savanna: grains, roots and smaller animals to hunt.

I need to know when man's ancestor first left the branches. To forage on the savannah. What that ancestor monkey was was after on the savannah, I have no idea?

Apes already travel in the savanna, apes already spend a lot of time on the ground, apes already hunt for food.

There is a an observational difference but same species. Dogs are wolves.

But a fundamentally different variety of wolf. With a whole lot of new or different traits they got from random mutations that humans then encouraged with selective breeding.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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AV1611VET

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How do you know for sure though?
I talked to him several years ago in private and asked him if he was Nathan Poe, and he said he was.

Unless he was lying to me, but I don't think he was.

His posting style is very similar to Nathan's; that's why I asked him.
 
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Landon Caeli

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I talked to him several years ago in private and asked him if he was Nathan Poe, and he said he was.

Unless he was lying to me, but I don't think he was.

His posting style is very similar to Nathan's; that's why I asked him.

Nice catch!
 
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Tanj

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I talked to him several years ago in private and asked him if he was Nathan Poe, and he said he was.

Unless he was lying to me, but I don't think he was.

His posting style is very similar to Nathan's; that's why I asked him.

Could have been a Poe though....
 
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