Who will win the Mars race?

[mindlight]

Radiation. Even a can do attitude and lot of knowledge won't cancel radiation, and with current technology it comes down to a very hard equation -- mass vs fuel. It's no joke.

Some pretty dramatic tech breakthroughs are needed, and.....notice a fact -- when your life is in a situation that tech means live or die, then anything that can cause even just a seemingly minor failure like in a field effect -- that seemingly minor glitch can mean extinction.

People don't know just how many different ways Earth and it's magnetic field protect us. It's all taken for granted. But a 3 week trip to the moon mars ain't.

Also, Mars ain't got much field. That's why it is desiccated.

How to Protect Astronauts from Space Radiation on Mars

The technology solution to survive on Mars vis a vis the radiation risk could be as simple as building the habitat underground, under a layer of dirt or water or in natural caves for instance.

I think an exploratory return trip is a first step so that the main research challenges can be answered. We still do not know what prolonged exposure to partial gravity will do. But the point is that thousands of people are willing to stake their lives to find these answers. This is no longer being driven by a risk adverse public sector that just keeps putting this off till tommorrow

 

[Douger]

Isn't Elon Musk tunneling to Mars or something?

 

[Goonie]

With the 6th great extinction underway
Red list: ash trees and antelopes on the brink of extinction
Earth's sixth mass extinction event under way, scientists warn
And with fertile soil being used up
Third of Earth's soil is acutely degraded due to agriculture

Are we surprised some wealthy people are looking to the stars?

 

[mindlight]

Isn't Elon Musk tunneling to Mars or something?

He owns a Boring company and a Solar one and one to do with brain research. The earth based challenges of solar power and public transit systems are also complementary to the kinds of technology development needed for Mars

 

[JacksBratt]

We did actually. I saw it on Australian television -- on a feed that came directly from one of our own radio-telescopes.



The US used the Saturn V rocket at the time, which was substantially more powerful than, say, the Falcon Heavy. And the LEM etc. would need to be redesigned using current tech. You couldn't get the parts for the old tech anymore.



Trust me. They did. All the arguments against are just nonsense.

That's OK, I've been there... I understand your view......then my eyes were opened.

 

[Radagast]

Been there done that with Apollo and IIS. Always room for improvement. But there are risks in such a mission which is why a willingness to die to make this happen is a prerequisite. The exciting thing is we are now moving past the mollycoddled risk adverse days of public sector space programmes which crippled the manned space programme for much of the last half century. Now its men of vision and funds who are driving this.

Apollo involved very brief missions. And the IIS hits several limits -- 6 months in the ISS hits the lifetime radiation exposure limit, and that period of weightlessness also causes optic nerve damage.

My own gut feel is that the best way to test a Mars colony would be with a Moon colony. But even that would be hard.

What is great here is that Elon Musk and the people who support him have the funds to make this happen.

Well no. They just think they can get the funds.

 

[Goonie]

To those who deny the moon landings. Ask yourself why did the Soviets accept they happened? if it was faked they would have cried it from the rooftops!

 

[Halbhh]

That's OK, I've been there... I understand your view......then my eyes were opened.

Do you also think the astronauts that orbited the moon, Apollo 8 (before the landing mission), that's faked? And their photos of the back side? Did our photos use the USSR photos then? How do the photo sets compare?

Here -- if the photos were faked then.....are they faked now?..... Still?.....Check on all that, if you want to test your theory a bit more.

 

[JacksBratt]

Apollo involved very brief missions. And the IIS hits several limits -- 6 months in the ISS hits the lifetime radiation exposure limit, and that period of weightlessness also causes optic nerve damage.

My own gut feel is that the best way to test a Mars colony would be with a Moon colony. But even that would be hard.



Well no. They just think they can get the funds.

Most "moon missions" were at least 8 days (as the story goes, anyway). Any space craft traveling though the Van Allen Belts are going to have to have extreme shielding for even the relatively short amount of time it takes to pass through.

Mars missions, even though theoretically they would be extremely more lengthy time wise, must still deal with this issue. Even when the Van Allen Belts would be the very beginning stages of the theoretical voyage.

Without proper shielding... the passengers would be dead within hours.

This is one of the most obvious facts that debunk the story of going to the moon on any occasion in what would be comparable to a tin can.

 

[Halbhh]

Most "moon missions" were at least 8 days (as the story goes, anyway). Any space craft traveling though the Van Allen Belts are going to have to have extreme shielding for even the relatively short amount of time it takes to pass through.

Mars missions, even though theoretically they would be extremely more lengthy time wise, must still deal with this issue. Even when the Van Allen Belts would be the very beginning stages of the theoretical voyage.

Without proper shielding... the passengers would be dead within hours.

This is one of the most obvious facts that debunk the story of going to the moon on any occasion in what would be comparable to a tin can.

On Aug. 7, 1972, in the heart of the Apollo era, an enormous solar flare exploded from the sun’s atmosphere. Along with a gigantic burst of light in nearly all wavelengths, this event accelerated a wave of energetic particles. Mostly protons, with a few electrons and heavier elements mixed in, this wash of quick-moving particles would have been dangerous to anyone outside Earth’s protective magnetic bubble. Luckily, the Apollo 16 crew had returned to Earth just five months earlier, narrowly escaping this powerful event.
How to Protect Astronauts from Space Radiation on Mars

 

[JacksBratt]

To those who deny the moon landings. Ask yourself why did the Soviets accept they happened? if it was faked they would have cried it from the rooftops!

The Russians knew.... Why do you think they never did anything more than sputnik....?

Let me ask.... have you looked into it or are you just trying to find reasons to find why it is not a lie instead of looking for evidence that it is impossible

 

[JacksBratt]

On Aug. 7, 1972, in the heart of the Apollo era, an enormous solar flare exploded from the sun’s atmosphere. Along with a gigantic burst of light in nearly all wavelengths, this event accelerated a wave of energetic particles. Mostly protons, with a few electrons and heavier elements mixed in, this wash of quick-moving particles would have been dangerous to anyone outside Earth’s protective magnetic bubble. Luckily, the Apollo 16 crew had returned to Earth just five months earlier, narrowly escaping this powerful event.
How to Protect Astronauts from Space Radiation on Mars

I don't know what your trying to say. If they could not have withstanded this "gigantic burst of light of all wavelengths", how did they withstand the Van Allen belts?

In recent years, the space shuttle experimented in expansion of their low earth orbit. Soon as they ventured out more than 400 miles they experienced flashes of lights in their eyes, even while their eyes were closed.

Yet, men in a tin can went back and forth through these extremely more dangerous belts and didn't mention one incident. Even the idea that they lived through would have been a miracle.

 

[Halbhh]

I don't know what your trying to say. If they could not have withstanded this "gigantic burst of light of all wavelengths", how did they withstand the Van Allen belts?

In recent years, the space shuttle experimented in expansion of their low earth orbit. Soon as they ventured out more than 400 miles they experienced flashes of lights in their eyes, even while their eyes were closed.

Yet, men in a tin can went back and forth through these extremely more dangerous belts and didn't mention one incident. Even the idea that they lived through would have been a miracle.

The order of magnitude. We are all radiated all the time, right here on Earth. It's about how much, precisely.

Apollo Rocketed Through the Van Allen Belts

 

[JacksBratt]

The order of magnitude. We are all radiated all the time, right here on Earth. It's about how much, precisely.

Apollo Rocketed Through the Van Allen Belts

Exactly. However, one of the biggest obstacles to the Mars mission, supposedly, is that they must go through the Van Allen belts of radioactive particles and they do not have the ability to shield the space craft or the astronauts with the technology they have.

But, we are expected to believe that they did it in the 70's......? In a tin can?

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Rocket Launch: NET November 2017 | SpaceX Falcon Heavy Inaugural Flight

This is the year the launch of the Falcon Heavy rocket ( planned payload to Mars- 16.8Tons) opens up the possibility of a man on Mars for the first time since the Apollo Space programme and the retirement of the Saturn 5.

The private initiatives of Elon Musk and Mars One are planning permanent Mars settlements by 2025 and 2032 respectively with a date to put a man on Mars as early as 2022 if the TLS ( payload 450 tons to Mars) development works out.

NASA (2030s maybe - 50 tons to mars max) and the FKA(2030 - 150 tons to low earth orbit) are planning return trips.

The Russian EnergiaV will not be available till 2028 and the SLS will not be available till 2029 in its full Mars transit version. The Chinese are developing the Long March 9( 37 tons to Mars) rocket with a target date of 2028. ESA do not really have any manned mission space programme worth talking about but maybe they will warm to the idea later?


Who do you think will win the race and why?

Would you consider moving to a Mars base?

What are the key ingredients for success and challenges to overcome for a Mars mission?

*wakes up*

oh.. its 2017 and we are still using rocket fuel and classical mechanics to go to other celestial bodies? ho hum...


Either there are already colonies set up on other celestial bodies, or this talk about a rush to mars is the same type of psychological programming paradigm setting up for a Game of (Fake) Dominance on this planet - like what happened in the original space run in the 20th century. There is no reason we have not been to other alleged extraterrestrial bodies by now - considering the DoD has just admitted to antigravity technology and the ships they use (see the google patent.) These same ships that people were though to be crazy for describing are described in their schematics.

Guys... this is all a game for our assumed child-like necessity for entertainment. If we knew the full truth, most people would commit suicide, many would go Mad Max, and the rest would be in hiding in a post-apocalyptic scenario where the sky is still blue, and the food tastes decent.

 

[Radagast]

Either there are already colonies set up on other celestial bodies, or this talk about a rush to mars is the same type of psychological programming paradigm setting up for a Game of (Fake) Dominance on this planet - like what happened in the original space run in the 20th century. There is no reason we have not been to other alleged extraterrestrial bodies by now

Huh?

 

[Nithavela]

[bless and do not curse] Mars.

let's make planet Earth great again.

Said the dinosaur about evolving wings.

 

[Nithavela]

I say it's not going to happen. We'll kill each other before we get that far, and good riddance.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Huh?

I said exactly what I said:

Either there are already colonies set up on other celestial bodies, or this talk about a rush to mars is the same type of psychological programming paradigm setting up for a Game of (Fake) Dominance on this planet - like what happened in the original space run in the 20th century. There is no reason we have not been to other alleged extraterrestrial bodies by now - considering the DoD has just admitted to antigravity technology and the ships they use (see the google patent.) These same ships that people were though to be crazy for describing are described in their schematics.​

You missed/left out the underlined portion - which puts it into perspective. I would really like it if people did their own research because it shows engagement (and, not willful ignorance by incredulity.) However, if you need the schematic and patent number of the anti-gravity technology published, let me know.

Guys... this is all a game for our assumed child-like necessity for entertainment. If we knew the full truth, most people would commit suicide, many would go Mad Max, and the rest would be in hiding in a post-apocalyptic scenario where the sky is still blue, and the food tastes decent.
​

I also meant exactly what I said above.

 

[JacksBratt]

Do you also think the astronauts that orbited the moon, Apollo 8 (before the landing mission), that's faked?

Absolutely.

And their photos of the back side? Did our photos use the USSR photos then? How do the photo sets compare?

They have huge scale models of the moon with camera tracks beside them. Of course it is staged.
Look at the movies that Hollywood can produce for a couple of million dollars and then compare the budget for NASA.

Why would you need a scale model of the moon unless you were going to film it to look like you were there?

Here -- if the photos were faked then.....are they faked now?..... Still?.....Check on all that, if you want to test your theory a bit more.

Yes, the photos you see now are CGI. That means Computer Generated Images.... NASA even admits it. They even admit that all the photos of the earth are CGI because "they have to be".

The pictures of the earth from space have obvious evidence of photo shop's cloning tool as numerous cloud formations are copied and pasted all over the "globe".

HEY, if it took a Saturn V rocket, many stories high, to get out of earths orbit... why is it that the Lunar Module had no rocket engines at all to blast off from the moon and break out of gravity that is not non existent and, in fact, 1/6 of the strength of earth's gravity... would they not need a rocket engine at least 1/6 the size of the Saturn V... I know, I know the Lunar module was less weight compared to the command module, the lunar module and the rest of the equipment in nose of the Saturn V. BUT not that much smaller... Not enough to get off the moon with absolutely no rocket engines comparable to even 1/64 of the Saturn V... But, you can do anything with movie experts under the budget of NASA.

Not to mention that the camera that filmed... that's "filmed" the lunar module blasting off of the moon shows a flash of an explosion then.......nothing else. No engine blast, no propulsion hardware... just the living portion of the lunar module.

Then, the cherry on the top is the fact that this camera, with no operator, perfectly pans upward as the lunar module rises off the moon.

A bonus is how they got these filmed images of them leaving the moon, from a camera with film, from the camera to develop it and show it here on earth.

I have no doubt that they did not ever go to the moon.