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Who Was The Worst Pope??.......

Discussion in 'Christian History' started by Tim Myers, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. Dark_Lite

    Dark_Lite Chewbacha

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    I do so love completely unsupported assertions, especially controversial ones wrapped up with some nice emotional rhetoric that actually has no basis in reality!
     
  2. garysibio

    garysibio Newbie

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    Perhaps you can explain to me how a person could post all these falsehoods attacking good Christians and follow it with "LOVE ONE ANOTHER." It seems incongruous at best.
     
  3. St. Paul

    St. Paul Newbie

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    "Love one another" is different than helping the lost. The evidence is there. You just choose to blame it on the "liberal media" as an attack on your faith, when all their doing is reporting facts.

    EDIT: Sometimes you need to be rude and tell people what they NEED to hear and NOT what they WANT to hear. May God help you finally see the light. I will pray for you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
  4. St. Paul

    St. Paul Newbie

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    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
  5. garysibio

    garysibio Newbie

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    The stories were factually incorrect:

    1) The priest was not under the authority of Cardinal Ratzinger. At the time Ratzinger was the bishop of Munich and this priest was from the diocese of Essen.

    2) The priest was not assigned to a parish. He was allowed to reside in a rectory there while receiving treatment. He was not engaged in active ministry and did not have contact with children.

    2a) At some point the decision was made to to let the priest help out. This decision was not made by Cardinal Ratzinger but by the Vicar General, Msgr. Gerhard Gruber. Ratzinger knew nothing about it.

    3) There is absolutely no evidence that Ratzinger was aware that this was a pedophile case. He was only informed that the priest had committed a sexual indiscretion.

    4) Since the priest was not under his authority, Ratzinger played absolutely no role in whether or not this priest would be returned to active ministry at any time. That was for the bishop of the Essen diocese to decide. (This occurred in 1980, before it was known that there was no cure for pedophilia. The church did the same thing the US legal system did at the time.)

    5) The priest later - after Ratzinger was assigned to the Vatican - was reassigned by the bishop of Essen and was involved in another attack. This time he was punished according to German law.

    Ruth Gledhill, who wrote the article on this for Britain's Sunday Times added:

    The latest scandal coming out of Germany is not enough to threaten the Pope or the Church. But on top of a succession of damaging revelations it can only increase the damage being done to its moral authority on the world stage. The killer fact that could bring down the Pope or Church probably does not even exist.

    The Pope is pretty unassailable. He is not elected, he is a monarch, and the centralisation that has taken place under the last two Popes has cemented that power. Pope Benedict XVI has also indicated in his three encyclicals the depths of his own integrity and intellectual rigour.

    Now that you know the truth are you going to apologize for your false accusations against a holy man?

    I'm not defending everything the Catholic Church did in this situation, huge mistakes were made, and I'm certainly not defending priests who did any of these crimes but the love of Christ constrains me to seek out the truth and not make false accusations about anyone but especially not fellow believers.
     
  6. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Since we know what the Roman Catholic Church has done, my question is why do people continue with her?

    What love of Christ compels people to support and associate with a pedophile priest organization?
     
  7. garysibio

    garysibio Newbie

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    You better sit down, Standing Up. Your hatred is showing.

    I could ask the same question you ask about Protestantism. A Lutheran study done in the 1980s concluded that Protestant ministers were twice as likely to engage in pederasty as Catholic priests.

    I would provide some links but I'm new to the forum and you have to have 50 posts before the forum allows you to include links in a post.
     
  8. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Were they handled the same?

    BTW, I'm not Lutheran or Protestant, so my question remains, why do folks continue to support Roman Catholicism given all they know about her?
     
  9. garysibio

    garysibio Newbie

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    Back in the 1980s the "experts" believed that this could be cured so all offenders, not just priests and ministers, were treated as if they were sick and received therapy to cure them. No one went to jail. This obviously didn't work and pederasty is now considered to be incurable.

    I agree that the Catholic Church handled these cases improperly although their motivation was correct. They, above all others, should have seen it as a sin more than an illness. Instead they sent the priest to secular psychiatrists and were reassigned after the psychiatrists assured the bishops that they were cured and safe to put back on the job. If you want to say that the bishops should not have listened to the psychiatrists I will agree with you 100% but there was no ill intent or attempts to cover up wrong-doing.

    Several diocese in the USA have had to declare bankruptcy because of all this. Don't you think the bishops would have seen this coming if they were engaged in a cover-up? Of course they would have. There was no reason for the bishops to protect wrong-doers and every reason no to.

    Catholics support the Catholic Church because it is the church which Jesus founded in Matt 16:18 and not by some man 1,500 years or more later. We know our clergy is not perfect but, guess what, neither are yours. The church is a place for sinners to find forgiveness and healing. It doesn't happen overnight. In some cases the healing doesn't happen at all (Matt 13:1-9, 18-23).
     
  10. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Thank you for the answer, but it's not really clear what you mean. I know you're not really saying the Roman Catholic Church with pedophile priests is the one Jesus founded, so again, why support that church that retains pedophile priests? (I realize you believe Lutherans also have pedophile priests, but I'm wondering about Roman Catholics.)

    I mentioned Pope Callistus a few posts ago. Evidently he supported abortion amongst other things. I'm just wondering why people continued to support such evil?

    Is something promised in Roman Catholicism that people can't find elsewhere?
     
  11. garysibio

    garysibio Newbie

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    Standing Up,

    It's getting very difficult to take you seriously. Let me put it as simply as I can for you. Jesus Christ founded a church. It is now known as the Roman Catholic Church. In addition men founded a variety of denominations, currently around 35,000 if you count all the tiny storefront churches. Although they are not Catholic I do include them as members of the body of Christ.

    Just because we are Christian does not mean we are without sin. Some of us sin more grievously than others. However, for you to portray the Catholic Church as full of pederasts and their protectors is a lie and I think you know it. Lying is also a sin. Here's what Scripture says about it:

    Rev 21:8 But the legacy for cowards, for those who break their word, or worship obscenities, for murderers and the sexually immoral, and for sorcerers, worshippers of false gods or any other sort of liars, is the second death in the burning lake of sulphur.' (NJB)​

    Note that the end of liars is the same as those who practice sexual immorality. You might want to consider repenting.

    Callixtus' spiritual life was up and down.He did do some things before becoming pope that he later repented of. However, the particular charge that you mention was brought by Hippolytus at a time when he was an adherent of the Novatian heresy, something of which he later repented. This casts doubt upon anything Hippolytus said about the pope.

    We don't claim that the popes have all been perfect. In fact, none of them have. They are all sinners just like the rest of us and you. Some have been horrible. The fact that the Catholic Church has survived these popes intact shows that God is moving through it.
     
  12. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Again, I appreciate your response. If you think the Roman Catholic Church is the Church Jesus Christ founded, then you must stay with her.

    Anyone else have an answer? Why support a denomination that permits pedophile priests in their midst?
     
  13. Dark_Lite

    Dark_Lite Chewbacha

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    Poisoning the well and loaded questions are fun. This is equivalent to "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

    The Catholic Church does not permit pedophile priests in its midst. It does not support pedophilia.

    Drop the bigotry and come up with a real argument.
     
  14. Ishraqiyun

    Ishraqiyun Fanning the Divine Spark

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    Pope Innocent III. The Albigensian crusade was one of the low points of European history.

    One the pedophilia issue - It's sad when a minister takes advantage of their position but the percentage in the Catholic Church are not really any higher then they are among Protestant ministers. It's a human problem in general and isn't something unique to the Catholic Church.
     
  15. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    I know what she says, but what she does. It's not a question; it's an established fact; no one disputes it; she's paid out millions, etc (and again, no doubt it goes on in other places).

    My question is simply why do you remain with her?
     
  16. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    I've looked briefly at some of those accusations about the other groups, but I don't see the shuffling and reassigning or coverup. Maybe it's there, not sure.

    But why do you think someone stays with a group that permitted pedophiles in their midst? Just that there's no other safe place?
     
  17. Dark_Lite

    Dark_Lite Chewbacha

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    No, it's not an established fact. It's your twisted interpretation of the sex scandal. Certain bishops covering up abusive priests, whom have now been exposed and removed as appropriate, does not mean the Catholic Church supports pedophilia. Like I said, drop the bigotry.
     
  18. LinuxUser

    LinuxUser Well-Known Member

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    Yea, standing do you why stay in churches when they are pedophile pastors?
     
  19. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Call Wiki bigoted.

    The Catholic sex abuse cases are a series of ongoing investigations into adjudicated sex crimes committed by Catholic priests and members of religious orders.[1] These cases began receiving public attention beginning in the mid-1980s.[2] The attention led to criminal prosecutions of the abusers and to civil lawsuits against the church's dioceses and parishes where abuse was alleged to have occurred.

    Arose in the mid '80s. So, again, why did folks stay in the RC church? Please answer the question, rather than attack me, or just simply say you don't have an answer.
     
  20. Dark_Lite

    Dark_Lite Chewbacha

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    You're the one stating that which is not true. You claimed the Catholic Church harbors and supports pedophiles. That is not true. Certain people within the Church harbored pedophile priests, although their reason in doing so was either to protect the reputation of the Church or because they thought the pedophile was cured.

    It's not like they were doing it as some sort of human sex trafficking conspiracy. That's what you are heavily implying/saying directly in your statements. The sex scandal is obviously not good, but to claim that the Catholic Church, as a whole, somehow officially or unofficially "supported" it is libelous.
     
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