Who was the Antichrist according to the early Protestant Reformers?

[jgr]

Eeesh. I've read a lot of Luther. Some, but not much of the others. Regardless, you have a blessed day.

And you as well.

 

[klutedavid]

I can prove it from the Word of GOD

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Keep your traditions of men I will keep the Word of GOD

That passage does not prove that Gentiles are under the law. In fact, that passage you quoted talks about the washing of pots and cups.

The early church met on the first day of the week. You have no evidence to support your idea except for your peculiar interpretation of the scripture.

Evidence from early church history tells us everything that we need to know. The scripture tells us that the Gentile churches met on the first day but early Christian authors seal the deal.

By the way, if you ignore the first three centuries of early Christian authorship. You forfeit your New Testament because that is the only source the church had to identify, which letters were actually scripture. This is the most critical misjudgment your church has ever made.

 

[klutedavid]

Both Smith and Russell published their own scriptures while EGW referred the reader to the Bible, BIG Difference.

Both Smith and Russell state that their writings supersede the Holy Bible just ask a member of those organizations not so with EGW her writings always lead to the Word of GOD, (she only utilized the KJV)

You have your own version of the scripture, your own Bible publication.

The Clear Word Bible.

A former President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, Pastor Robert S. Folkenberg read it and endorsed it. It was also advertised on more than one occasion in the Adventist Review.[7] (wikipedia)

Don't point your finger at Smith and Russel as if they did something your church movement has not done.

The Clear Word Bible has even been quoted in Christian Forums.

 

[klutedavid]

Post 82.

In response to one of your posts.

It would really help if you'd read first.

Just read it and thanks for noting the post number.

I asked you when the pope claimed to be God on earth.

You replied with a number of quotations and some of which I could not locate the source on the internet. But the quotation below I found.

“We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.

This quotation above says that WE hold the place of God Almighty. Which is the church, the ambassadors of Christ Himself. The pope is not claiming divinity, the pope claims the church is a divine institution.

 

[klutedavid]

Sanctified by His Life

And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. John 17:19.

The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted. The first is our title to heaven, the second is our fitness for heaven.

Many commit the error of trying to define minutely the fine points of distinction between justification and sanctification. Into the definitions of these two terms they often bring their own ideas and speculations. Why try to be more minute than is Inspiration on the vital question of righteousness by faith?

As the penitent sinner, contrite before God, discerns Christ’s atonement in his behalf, and accepts this atonement as his only hope in this life and the future life, his sins are pardoned. This is justification by faith.

Sanctification is not the work of a moment, an hour, a day, but of a lifetime. It is not gained by a happy flight of feeling, but is the result of constantly dying to sin, and constantly living for Christ. Wrongs cannot be righted nor reformations wrought in the character by feeble, intermittent efforts. It is only by long, persevering effort, sore discipline, and stern conflict, that we shall overcome.

It [sanctification] is not merely a theory, an emotion, or a form of words, but a living, active principle, entering into the everyday life. It requires that our habits of eating, drinking, and dressing be such as to secure the preservation of physical, mental, and moral health, that we may present to the Lord our bodies—not an offering corrupted by wrong habits but—“a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God.”

The Scriptures are the great agency in the transformation of character.... If studied and obeyed, the Word of God works in the heart, subduing every unholy attribute.

There is no such thing as instantaneous sanctification. True sanctification is a daily work, continuing as long as life shall last.

This text is from the book The Faith I Live By by Ellen G. White.

How wrong could Ellen be on the topic of sanctification.

Here is what she said about sanctification.

There is no such thing as instantaneous sanctification.

Well Ellen it might pay to read the scripture first before misleading the general public.

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.

Read it again, instant sanctification by faith in Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:2
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.

Instant sanctification again, this verse puts sanctification in the past tense, 'who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus.'

1 Corinthians 6:11
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 2:11
For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren.

Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

By one offering we have been perfected!

Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

The blood of the covenant sanctifies.

Ellen was wrong on this topic and she is demonstrating her very weak comprehension of the New Testament.

 

[klutedavid]

This sounds like two things

OSAS and that you are holy now and not a sinner.

Wrong on both claims.

Your steering away from the O.P.

Saved as long as you abide in Christ. Should you be deceived and no longer believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. For the forgiveness of sin and life eternal. Then you cannot be saved.

In Christ I cannot sin.

So are you claiming that you don't sin because you have sanctified yourself?

 

[klutedavid]

They were a church claiming to be Christian, but denying God in their works.

Thereby qualifying themselves as antichrists according to 1 John 2:22.

In the same manner as which the apostate papacy claimed to be Christian, but denied God in their declarations of what was tantamount to divinity.

I could not disagree more with you. When you sin do you instantly become the antichrist?

 

[jgr]

This quotation above says that WE hold the place of God Almighty. Which is the church, the ambassadors of Christ Himself. The pope is not claiming divinity, the pope claims the church is a divine institution.

It does not refer to the church.

The encyclical is addressed to those comprising the papal hierarchy:

To Our Venerable Brethren, all Patriarchs, Primates,
Archbishops and Bishops of the Catholic World
In Grace and Communion with the Apostolic See

"Venerable Brethren" might appear to refer to the church at large, but does not:

"In the Catholic Church, The Venerable is the title used for a person who has been posthumously declared "heroic in virtue" during the investigation and process leading to canonization as a saint."

 

[jgr]

I could not disagree more with you. When you sin do you instantly become the antichrist?

If you sin like this, you do:

"...in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."

Abominability, disobedience, and reprobation are indicative of deliberate recurring sin, which is a denial of Christ's sacrifice (Hebrews 10:26).

The type of sin which characterizes an antichrist.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Is the truth up for a vote, these weighing more than others?

sure is called the wheat and the tares

 

[Barney2.0]

This guy right here:

Behold the Satanic Anti-Christ, the Papacy.

Source:

The Gospel according to the Reformers.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

sure is called the wheat and the tares

What is wheat and what are rates isn’t up for a vote either. Did you understand the question?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If the men living then were as ignorant of history as many are now, they too would choose those living in their day.

 

[Tolworth John]

If you don't understand the relevance, then you sure as hell won't understand the explanation!

The role of the Spiritual is to make the unclear clear to those who do not understand.
I am sorry that you do not understand the importance of the reformers so you can explain simple there role in the reformation or there importance.

Keep studying understanding will come.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The role of the Spiritual is to make the unclear clear to those who do not understand.
I am sorry that you do not understand the importance of the reformers so you can explain simple there role in the reformation or there importance.

Keep studying understanding will come.

Pretty insulting post. What if Reli d knows MORE than you instead of less?

 

[Tolworth John]

Pretty insulting post. What if Reli d knows MORE than you instead of less?

Then he can do what was asked and explain.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Then he can do what was asked and explain.

Do you realize your post was extremely condescending?

 

[Davy]

Table of Contents

1. Martin Luther (1483-1546) (Lutheran):
2. John Calvin (1509-1564) (Presbyterian):
3. John Knox (1505-1572) (Scotch Presbyterian):
4. Thomas Cranmer (1489-1556) (Anglican):
5. Roger Williams (1603-1683) (First Baptist Pastor in America):
6. The Westminster Confession of Faith (1647):
7. Cotton Mather (1663-1728) (Congregational Theologian):
8. John Wesley (1703-1791) (Methodist):
9. A Great Cloud of Witnesses:

The following quotations show what some of the most influential Protestant Reformers and early Christian leaders believed about Antichrist (“the little horn” (Daniel 7:8), “the beast” (Revelation 13:1), and “the man of sin” (2 Thessalonians 2:3).

Who was the Antichrist according to the early Protestant Reformers? -

The Reformers saw things through 16th century lenses. The Roman Church saw the separation of the Protestants as rebellion and an attack on Christ. And the Protestants saw the Roman Church had grown into a behemoth of corruption, and thus assigned the pope as the Antichrist.

I have a right to speak out about both sides in that conflict, because my ancestors were French huguenots, the first French Protestants that fought against the Roman Church. My ancestors had to flee France because of persecutions by the Roman Church.

God works in mysterious ways, and one of the things the Protestant rebellion caused was greater availability of the Scriptures, and the spreading out of the Protestant Church to found the Americas. The early Christian Church in the American colonies was not... the Catholic Church. It was a descendant of the English Puritan movement. It was the Protestant Church, and from that new branches of the Protestant Church came into being (i.e., Baptists, Methodists, Quakers, Unitarians).

We now know the pope was not, and is not, the Antichrist who is prophesied to come at the end of the world. Even the early Church fathers like Hippolytus understood the Antichrist must come from the tribe of Judah, trying to copy the role of The Messiah. The Reformers thought the "great tribulation" had come, and the persecutions by the Roman Church and the pope was proof. They were wrong. If they had been correct then our Lord Jesus Christ should have returned to end this present world in the days of those Protestant Reformers. And it's as simple as that.

So what I see Reformation supporters pushing today is a New Reformation, one that will support the coming Antichrist claiming to be the lion of the tribe of Judah, and that is to show up in Jerusalem prior to Christ's coming, and who will setup a one-world kingdom over all nations with himself as king over it. So those sitll looking through the 16th century lenses of the Protestant Reformers are way, way behind the times regarding Bible prophecy and history.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Mostly they were likely ignorant of the events of 70 AD, the fulfillment of Matthew 24.

 

[jgr]

And the Protestants saw the Roman Church had grown into a behemoth of corruption, and thus assigned the pope as the Antichrist.

They saw it as the fulfillment of the applicable prophecies.

We now know the pope was not, and is not, the Antichrist who is prophesied to come at the end of the world.

Who are "We"?

Not those who discern history.

The "Antichrist who is prophesied to come at the end of the world" was a counterfeit product of the apostate papacy's counter-reformation, and their commissioned counterfeiter Francisco Ribera's In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij.

Modernist dispensational futurism is his oblivious contemporary disciple.

Even the early Church fathers like Hippolytus understood the Antichrist must come from the tribe of Judah, trying to copy the role of The Messiah.

Had Hippolytus survived to the time of the Reformation, he undoubtedly along with all other Reformers would have recognized the antichrist in their midst.

The Reformers thought the "great tribulation" had come, and the persecutions by the Roman Church and the pope was proof.

Quote, source, date?

So those sitll looking through the 16th century lenses of the Protestant Reformers are way, way behind the times regarding Bible prophecy and history.

Those who understand the Reformation and Reformers recognize their accurate diagnosis of their times.

In contrast to modernist dispensational futurism's fantasies and fallacies conjured through malinterpretation by imagination.