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Reformers' interpretations of the AntiChrist

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists' started by reddogs, Aug 23, 2019.

  1. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    The Protestant churches today and even some brethren are backing away from identifying the AntiChrist power, and yet the Reformers and even those before them saw clearly who the AntiChrist was. What is happening to the churches today, are they becoming blind and forgetful of the truth they once saw clearly. Here is a list I came across of Pre-Reformation and Reformers Interpretations:

    Date Name Reference Interpretation

    c. 1310 Dante Alighieri
    Rev. 17 Harlot=Roman Church

    c. 1331 Michael of Cesena
    Rev. 17 Harlot/Antichrist=Roman Church, Pope

    c. 1345 Johannes de Rupescissa
    Antichrist, Rev. 17 Babylon, Rev. 17 Harlot=Pope/Roman church


    c. 1350 Francesco Petrarch
    Rev. 17 Harlot=Papal Court

    c. 1367 John Milicz
    Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Man of Sin=Papacy


    c. 1379 John Wycliffe
    Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn. Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot=Pope/Papacy


    c. 1388 Matthias of Janow
    Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Man of Sin. Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon=Hierarchy/Papacy


    c. 1390 John Purvey
    Antichrist, Rev. 13 666, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy


    c. 1393 Walter Brute
    Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin=Papacy/Bishop of Rome/Papacy

    c. 1412 John Huss
    Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy


    c. 1497 Girolamo Savonarola
    Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy

    Reformation Era Interpretations:

    1522 Martin Luther
    Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

    1543 Philipp Melanchthon
    Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

    1545 Andreas Osiander
    Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

    1554 Nicolaus von Amsdorf
    Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

    1558 Johann Funck
    Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

    1560 Virgil Solis
    Antichrist, Little Horn, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

    1570 Georg Nigrinus
    Antichrist= Pope

    1572 David Chytraeus
    Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin= Papacy

    1530 Johann Oecolampadius
    Antichrist, Little Horn=Papacy

    1557 Heinrich Bullinger
    Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

    1550 William Tyndale
    Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

    1545 George Joys
    Antichrist, Little Horn=Papacy

    1554 Nicholas Ridley
    Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Rev. 17 Harlot. Rev. 17 Babylon
    Rev. 17 Beast=Papacy

    1553 Hugh Latimer
    Antichrist=Papacy

    1582 Thomas Cranmer
    Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

    1550 John Bale
    Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon
    Rev. 17 Beast=Papacy

    1562 John Jewel
    Antichrist, Abomination of Desolation, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon
    Rev. 17 Beast=Papacy

    1587 John Foxe
    Antichrist, Man of Sin=Bishop of Rome

    1563 Anglican Formulas
    Antichrist=Papacy

    1547 John Knox
    Antichrist, Little Horn=Church of Rome/Papacy

    1593 John Napier
    Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 13 1st Beast, Rev. 17 Harlot, Rev. 17 Babylon
    Rev. 17 Beast =Pope/Papacy/Latin Empire

    1614 Thomas Brightman
    Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Babylon=Pope/Papacy

    1618 David Pareus
    Antichrist, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Beast=Pope/Papacy

    Sir Isaac Newton
    Antichrist, Little Horn, Man of Sin, Rev. 17 Harlot
    Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy

    John Wesley
    Man of Sin. Rev. 17 Harlot. Rev. 17 Babylon=Papacy also Antichrist

    And they ask the question, "In view of the foregoing Reformation interpretations identifying Papacy as the Antichrist and Man of Sin, why do so many Evangelical Protestants today believe the Man of Sin and Antichrist are future individuals?"

    Are we failing in our duty to warm the churches of the Reformation, as we see them drift back to Papal Power, the AntiChrist.
     
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  2. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Post deleted:
     
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  3. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Many of the "protestant" churches are ignoring history and the valuable teaching of the reformists many who gave their lives and stood on the truth. They were called Protestants.

    2 Timothy 4

    3For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. 4So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

    Protestant definition:

    a member or follower of any of the Western Christian churches that are separate from the Roman Catholic Church and follow the principles of the Reformation

    'Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.'

    and so it goes.

    "Protestants" should go study or re-study the reformation and also read about the counter-reformation ... in depth .... and understand the principles.
     
  4. Heavenhome

    Heavenhome Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree and can you imagine all those who were martyred simply because they God and that the Bible was for all men to read and understand, how would they see things nowadays with many considering that the Pope and his church just another branch of Christianity?
    It is beyond shameful.
     
  5. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe that there will be a worldwide religious movement (3 frogs, maybe) where Talmudic Judaism, Islam and Roman Catholicism unite. There is already a religion called Chrislam. The Roman Catholic hierarchy have been calling Islam, Judaism and Islam the "great religions" for a very long time. The problem is that Christianity is not a religion. There are Catholics who are born again and "Reformed" church attenders who are no more born again than my cat. The true church, those who are born again, will reject this syncretism out of hand. Many who are nominal believers will be drawn into it.

    The great enemy of Christianity is religion of all kinds, including "Christianism" ( I made that word up). It has the outward appearance of godliness but has no power. Avoid it like the plague.
     
  6. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    It was the prevailing view of those who wrote/held to the Reformed Confessions.

    "There is no other Head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ: nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the Church against Christ, and all that is called God."

    - Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 25 Section 6
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    And Baptist Confession of Faith 26.4
    The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)
     
  8. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    But since its destruction it has not been a political/religious power like what came from Rome, and less so the state of Israel.
     
  9. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Post deleted:
     
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  10. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    That's all nice, but lets look at one question. Why haven't they built the Third Temple if they have so much power....

    God directs not man....
     
  11. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Post deleted:
     
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  12. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    The Temple sacrifices pointed to Christ. When He the Lamb of God, calls out, "It is finished!" He dies for the sins of the world. The very event the Temple services have pointed to through the centuries has taken place. The Saviour has completed His atoning sacrifice, and because symbol has met reality, the rituals foreshadowing this sacrifice have been superseded.
     
  13. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Yes, I'm aware of all this. This is the Divine reason why I don't think it has been reconstructed. Yet if it does end up being reconstructed; it would be interesting to see how that unfolds politically.
     
  14. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

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    Very true..
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    True.

    And just as the first century writer Paul wrote about the second coming in 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15 -- so did the first century Bible writer John write about the 2nd coming in Rev 19
    And so he also writes about the 1000 years that follow the second coming in Rev 20
    And so he also writes about the 2nd resurrection in Rev 20 and the new Earth that follows that in Rev 21.

    nope. Babylon is Rome as Peter reminds us
    1 Peter 3:
    "13 She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son. "

    (Peter was not writing from Jerusalem)



    Revelation 11:8, - "....where our Lord was crucified...
    7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves.

    1. literal Jerusalem was never called Sodom or Egypt.
    2. literal Jerusalem had already been destroyed at the time John was writing in the 90's A.D.
    3. The 1260 years of saints being persecuted and the Bible being banned/burned as described in Rev 11 -- not even remotely attributed to literal Jerusalem.


    Revelation 17:6 "..drunk with the blood of the saints and the martyrs of Jesus Christ..." -- that entity killed over 50 million Christians over a period of 1260 years during the dark ages.

    Revelation 18:24 ".... and in her was found the blood of the prophets and the saints and all who were slain upon the earth..." -- that entity killed over 50 million Christians over a period of 1260 years during the dark ages. -- nothing compares to it in all of time.

    Revelation 17 - It's a city that sits on 7 mountains. - the "city of seven hills" is Rome.

    ============================================
    Seven hills of Rome - Wikipedia
    The seven hills of Rome (Italian: Sette colli di Roma [ˈsɛtte ˈkɔlli di ˈroːma], Latin: Septem colles/montes Romae) east of the river Tiber form the geographical heart of Rome, within the walls of the city.

    The seven hills are:[1]

    In the Book of Revelation,.. Babylon sits on "seven mountains",[4] typically understood by Protestants as the seven hills of Rome.[5][6][7][8][9][10]
    ================================================

    Rev 17
    9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

    Option 1 for Rev 17 (seven kings) is that the reference point is John's day.
    Five have fallen - Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece
    One is - Pagan Rome
    One is to come - papal Rome (a short time)


    =======================
    Option 2 for Rev 17 (seven kings) Reference point is "Time of the end" 1798. deadly wound of Rev 13
    Daniel 7 covers the span of 5 empires/kingdoms (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome, Papal Rome)

    Five have fallen
    1) Babylon
    2) Medo Persia
    3) Greece
    4) Pagan Rome
    5) Papal Rome (point of reference of Rev.17:3; And Rev 13 deadly wound in 1798).

    6) Papal Rome II – deadly wound healed. One IS
    7 ) One will come (a short time) great wonder-working antichrist power Rev 13.



    =====10 kings were yet to come.

    The division of Europe into ten main kingdoms. EU.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    That is the position of historicist Protestantism and the Adventist church still holds to much of that same historicist model of prophetic interpretation.

    But antichrist is not limited to that for as John points out in 1 John 2 and 4 antichrist was already present.. in fact "many antichrists"

    So that view above is one of many forms in which that the term "antichrist" is fulfilled including the "man of sin' and the great "signs of wonders" of 2Thess 2 - that is still future to our own day.
     
  17. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Post deleted:
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Acts 1 tells us Christ went to heaven at his resurrection after 40 days.
    Heb 8:1 tells us that the "main point" is that Christ is in heaven as high priest.
    1 Cor 15 tells us that Christ is seated 'until' all enemies of Christ are conquered.
    2 Cor 4:4 tells us Satan is still "the god of this world"
    Eph 2 tells us Satan is still "the prince of the power of the air".
    Christ Himself stated "My kingdom is not of this world"

    Eph 1 does not tell us that Christ is now reigning on Earth.

    In fact it is very evident that sin and rebellion are rife on earth.

    The 1000 years of Rev 20 will start after the Rev 19 second coming event.

    Rev 19 second coming event --

    1 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

    17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

    19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

    yeah... that is a good example of the future second coming event. Not something that happened 2000 years ago.

    1. John is writing in 90 AD. in Rev 17 -- there is no literal Jerusalem at that time.
    2. Jerusalem is never called Egypt or Sodom not even spiritually in the Bible
    3. The church is the "body of Christ" -- to persecute the church is to persecute Christ.
    Apocalyptic writing -- uses symbols where the city is called "Sodom AND Egypt".

    Heb 6
    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

    ===========================================
    Sodom is a city - never to return. Burned by eternal fire Jude 7
    Egypt is a nation.

    Symbolism for the moral depravity of Sodom and the "Who is God that I should serve him" view of Egypt at the time of Moses.

    Then in France that witness falls silent for 3.5 years. Nov 24 1793 – spring 1797
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    had not yet fallen using what context? 1798? or 90 AD?

    ================================================
    For 90AD I gave this scenario

    Option 1 for Rev 17 (seven kings) is that the reference point is John's day.
    Five have fallen - Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece
    One is - Pagan Rome
    One is to come - papal Rome (a short time)



    ==============================================
    For 1798 -- pagan Rome had most certainly fallen by then.

    Option 2 for Rev 17 (seven kings) Reference point is "Time of the end" 1798. deadly wound of Rev 13
    Daniel 7 covers the span of 5 empires/kingdoms (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome, Papal Rome)

    Five have fallen
    1) Babylon
    2) Medo Persia
    3) Greece
    4) Pagan Rome
    5) Papal Rome (point of reference of Rev.17:3; And Rev 13 deadly wound in 1798).

    6) Papal Rome II – deadly wound healed. One IS
    7 ) One will come (a short time) great wonder-working antichrist power Rev 13.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    The NT writers apply that term to Christians that then reject Christ.

    Heb 6
    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
     
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