Who Started the Great Schism?

[abacabb3]

 

[ArmyMatt]

that’d be Rome.

 

[prodromos]

that’d be Rome.

Succinct summary of the video

 

[ArmyMatt]

Succinct summary of the video

I do what I can

 

[abacabb3]

I was hoping some "debaters" would join the thread and discuss the video's contents.

 

[Andrew.H]

I was hoping some "debaters" would join the thread and discuss the video's contents.

Sounds like victory by default then to me.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Sounds like victory by default then to me.

Simone Biles couldn’t do the mental gymnastics to defend the Western position of the Schism.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

that’d be Rome.

4/5 Patriarchates agree!

 

[ArmyMatt]

4/5 Patriarchates agree!

and more since!

 

[abacabb3]

To be fair, Rome by accepting Canon 2 of Constantinople I by default agrees they caused the schism.

 

[ArmyMatt]

To be fair, Rome by accepting Canon 2 of Constantinople I by default agrees they caused the schism.

plus having a history of condemning the filioque

 

[abacabb3]

plus having a history of condemning the filioque

Condemning or promoting?

 

[Andrew.H]

plus having a history of condemning the filioque

Or Honorius, the sixth council and everything problematic for Vatican 1 that comes as a result.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Or Honorius, the sixth council and everything problematic for Vatican 1 that comes as a result.

or Vigilius, who was excommunicated by the East for not accepting the 5th Council, placed on house arrest, repented and then was excommunicated by the West.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Condemning or promoting?

condemning before they started promoting

 

[abacabb3]

or Vigilius, who was excommunicated by the East for not accepting the 5th Council, placed on house arrest, repented and then was excommunicated by the West.

My favorite part of that whole episode is that between the first and second constitutions, he contradicts himself whether the letter ascribed to ibas teaches heresy. In his letter to the bishop of Constantinople, he blames Satan for his own confusion! Popes are obviously not infallible, but neither are our bishops so in the end the fact they had heretical bishops is not a deal breaker, as teaching Papal infallibility now would be just the propagation of more false doctrine, something that we have in some quarters--and to be fair to most scholarly RCs, most don't take infallibility seriously.

But in the end of the day, they have left the Church 1,000 years ago. The historical facts are pretty clear.

 

[ArmyMatt]

My favorite part of that whole episode is that between the first and second constitutions, he contradicts himself whether the letter ascribed to ibas teaches heresy. In his letter to the bishop of Constantinople, he blames Satan for his own confusion! Popes are obviously not infallible, but neither are our bishops so in the end the fact they had heretical bishops is not a deal breaker, as teaching Papal infallibility now would be just the propagation of more false doctrine, something that we have in some quarters--and to be fair to most scholarly RCs, most don't take infallibility seriously.

But in the end of the day, they have left the Church 1,000 years ago. The historical facts are pretty clear.

yep, and it proves that a council has more authority than the Pope.

 

[abacabb3]

yep, and it proves that a council has more authority than the Pope.

Absolutely, the sentence of that council literally addresses this.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Absolutely, the sentence of that council literally addresses this.

plus the fact that he was excommunicated by the West after he accepted the 5th Council.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Forward to today.
As far as I know the EO does not have a unity among the 5 Churches. I don't seem to see a unit of one teaching.

Per the purpose of Jesus making Peter His steward. Of which, even in council, deferred to him.

As far as Honorius goes.
Honorius replied by referring to the Council of Chalcedon’s confession of faith (451), which held that Christ’s natures were indivisible and which he interpreted as meaning a single will in Christ.

Scholars believe that it is debatable whether he was a heretic. They hold that he seems to have misunderstood the point at issue, noting that his language is partially vague.

Monothelite, any of the 7th-century Christians who, while otherwise orthodox, maintained that Christ had only one will. The Monothelites were attempting to resolve the question of the unity of Christ’s person on the basis of the firmly established doctrine of the two natures, divine and human, in the person of Christ.

The controversy originated in the attempts by the Byzantine emperor Heraclius to win back for the church and empire the excommunicated and persecuted Monophysites of Egypt and Syria. In Armenia in 622, Heraclius first suggested to the head of the Severian Monophysites that the divine and human natures in Christ, while quite distinct in his one person, had but one will (thelēma) and one operation (energeia). Sergius, patriarch of Constantinople, was a strong upholder of the doctrine and was the emperor’s adviser on the question. In 638 Heraclius issued the Ekthesis (“Statement of Faith”), which formulated the position. This led to such intense controversy that Heraclius’ successor, Constans II, issued an edict in 648 forbidding all discussion of the question. This secured silence, despite the protest of the Western church at the Lateran Council of 649.

It was preceded in the same year by a synod under Pope Agatho at Rome. According to Agatho, the will is a property of the nature, so that, as there are two natures, there are two wills; but the human will determines itself ever conformably to the divine and almighty will. The third Council of Constantinople condemned Monothelitism and asserted two wills and two operations in the person of Christ.

Third Council of Constantinople | Description & Significance

Essentially Pope Leo was upset at Honorius, and it is said he was most upset he refused to teach on the matter.
Because he was vague, it remained open to interpretation of which Honorius dropped the ball and did a disservice to Peter's chair.
It was unsettling and upsetting to ALL that he did not teach or correct while on Peter's chair.

SO why is that so upsetting to all Churches and why did they finally find comfort in Rome's Pope Agatho to make the final conclusion??

Reminder: It was a council who created the problem/heresy.