Who should I vote for to end the war?

Pommer · Sep 25, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
I suppose but it would be like a cheese pizza with extra cheese where the cheese is the politics involved.

In short, Zelenskyy seems to be trying to milk this thing for everything it's worth while also saying (at first) that he was right on the front lines. Of course, there is no chance that he is actually seeing combat. I digress.

The era of soldier/leader is over.
He was President when his sovereign nation was attacked and I’m pretty sure that he’d be just fine if the Russians would go home and leave his country tomorrow.
He’s not “milking” anything, he’s got a terrible job to do and he seems to be mostly doing it.
Please continue to make light of this man’s troubles.

FireDragon76 · Sep 26, 2023

Paulos23 said:
I understand not wanting people killed, but the final level of disagreement is violence. It stops the argument when you kill the other guy. That is what Putin wants, no more disagreement that Ukraine is part of Russia. But Ukraine doesn't want that and is willing to fight to the death to stop it from becoming a part of Russia.

Putin doesn't even care if Ukraine has Ukrainian people left. This is Drang Nach Osten and Lebensraum westward: it is genocide. This isn't an exaggeration: this is the ideology of Russian and Soviet fascists like Ivan Ilyin and Lev Gumilev, clearly on Putin's reading list because he has praised their thought as his own.

All Becomes New · Sep 26, 2023

Bradskii said:
Swap Ukraine to the US. How much are you prepared to lose?

I'd lose Texas if it meant saving millions of lives.

wing2000 · Sep 26, 2023

wing2000 · Sep 26, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
I'd lose Texas if it meant saving millions of lives.

I would give Texas back to Mexico w/o a shot fired...if they'll have her?

All Becomes New · Sep 26, 2023

wing2000 said:
I would give Texas back to Mexico w/o a shot fired...if they'll have her?

California, then.

All Becomes New · Sep 26, 2023

childeye 2 said:
That's a rather moot point since no one would die at all if Putin wasn't having them killed when they resist the taking of their land, and Putin has already stated that he invaded because, in his view, Ukraine as well as other neighboring countries have always belonged to Russia and he's just taking back what he deems was stolen during the collapse of the Soviet Union. It's not about losing part of a border.

And it actually gets worse, because most Russian conscripts don't even believe in nor want to fight this war but are being forced to do so under penalty of prison. There are also several mercenary armies fighting there who simply do it for payment. That's why this conflict is in reality about Democracy vs Autocracy, because it's the action of only one man trying to expand his influence over other nations around him through deceit and military conquest.

That's a long answer to say you don't care about saving lives. I care about saving lives. That's why I am pro-life.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Sep 26, 2023

What war? The Russia and Ukraine thing is nothing more than Putin murdering innocent people in Ukraine and Ukraine defending themselves.

Desk trauma · Sep 26, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
That's a long answer to say you don't care about saving lives. I care about saving lives. That's why I am pro-life.

What makes you think that Putins ambitions stop with the territory currently held given his history of aggression? Is there any demand he can make that is too much?

childeye 2 · Sep 26, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
That's a long answer to say you don't care about saving lives. I care about saving lives. That's why I am pro-life.

Your reasoning is inaccurate. I didn't say I don't care about saving lives. I'm all for saving lives, but so what? I also think it takes courage to lay down one's life to defend what is right.

The reality we're confronted with is that Ukraine is not the aggressor here and they have the right to defend their lives and livelihoods without being labeled pro-death.

Moreover, I not only care about the people being massacred and the millions displaced by this particular war, but I also care about the injustice. You seem to think Putin should be allowed to wage war and take over other countries because you're pro-life.

All Becomes New · Sep 26, 2023

childeye 2 said:
You however seem to think Putin should be allowed to wage war and take over other countries because you're pro-life.

No, I'm saying when Ukraine was offered a treaty, they should have taken it to prevent bloodshed.

childeye 2 · Sep 26, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
No, I'm saying when Ukraine was offered a treaty, they should have taken it to prevent bloodshed.

It's the same thing. They don't want a treaty that gives their country to Putin and you seem to think Putin should be allowed to take it because you're pro-life.

Arcangl86 · Sep 26, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
No, I'm saying when Ukraine was offered a treaty, they should have taken it to prevent bloodshed.

When were they offered a treaty? Are you talking about the Minsk Agreements, both sides violated it, but Ukraine was better about abiding by it. And then Russia invaded. You seem to be placing a lot of responsibility on Ukraine instead of the party that was the actual aggressor her.

Paulos23 · Sep 26, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
No, I'm saying when Ukraine was offered a treaty, they should have taken it to prevent bloodshed.

So if the treaty gave away half their land they should just accept it for peace?

Russia is the aggressor here, not Ukraine. And despite your feelings, there are things that people will fight for.

Love365 · Sep 26, 2023

Give Russia and Ukraine seats in European Parliament.

The pen is mightier than the sword.

Paulos23 · Sep 26, 2023

Love365 said:
Give Russia and Ukraine seats in European Parliament.

The pen is mightier than the sword.

How is that going to end this war? And if it leads to peace, how long until one side breaks it for not getting what they wanted?

Love365 · Sep 26, 2023

Paulos23 said:
How is that going to end this war? And if it leads to peace, how long until one side breaks it for not getting what they wanted?

If you believe in democracy and free speech,
let them vote and let them speak.

Paulos23 · Sep 26, 2023

Love365 said:
If you believe in democracy and free speech,
let them vote and let them speak.

But what if they don't? Do you give them a platform to speak?

Love365 · Sep 26, 2023

Paulos23 said:
But what if they don't? Do you give them a platform to speak?

They will.

Bradskii · Sep 26, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
I'd lose Texas if it meant saving millions of lives.

Nobody knows the cost when the action starts. The question is whether you are prepared to let someone take a state or fight for it. 'People will get hurt, so we should let them have it' is not an attitude that will endear you to many.

Who should I vote for to end the war?

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