Who should I vote for to end the war?

childeye 2 · Sep 25, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
Which is why I mention that it could just be a political show where people die.

It certainly is an extreme political show where people not only die, but they also experience cataclysmic events, horror and intense suffering that will last for generations. And it even has a rippling effect around the world. But it's the whole point of propaganda to obscure the positive/negative connotations of good/bad actors by trying to make both political sides appear to be equally the same. For example, according to scripture there was war in heaven but only one side was fighting for the good.

All Becomes New · Sep 25, 2023

childeye 2 said:
It certainly is an extreme political show where people not only die, but they also experience cataclysmic events, horror and intense suffering that will last for generations. And it even has a rippling effect around the world. But it's the whole point of propaganda to obscure the positive/negative connotations of good/bad actors by trying to make both political sides appear to be doing the same. There was war in heaven according to scripture and only one side was fighting for the good.

There is not a "right side" here because it is war. I don't want war.

To answer the OP. I do not know who I am going to vote for yet, but I will not vote for Trump and I will not vote for the Democrats.

Pommer · Sep 25, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
Which is why I mention that it could just be a political show where people die.

So, like, every war, ever?

FireDragon76 · Sep 25, 2023

durangodawood said:
I could picture Trump slowly disengaging from NATO and European allies generally at a pace that might have kept Putin from his invasion long enough to last a second Trump term. Maybe Trump would have drawn out that process enough to keep Putin happy with the incremental gains.

Putin was counting on Trump to be re-elected so he could do whatever he wanted.

All Becomes New · Sep 25, 2023

Pommer said:
So, like, every war, ever?

I suppose but it would be like a cheese pizza with extra cheese where the cheese is the politics involved.

In short, Zelenskyy seems to be trying to milk this thing for everything it's worth while also saying (at first) that he was right on the front lines. Of course, there is no chance that he is actually seeing combat. I digress.

FireDragon76 · Sep 25, 2023

SoldierOfTheKing said:
Washington instigated a coup d'etat against the lawful government of the Ukraine in 2014. Everything that has happened there since then, including this current war, is fallout from that. So in a very real sense, Washington did do those things.

That's a Kremlin talking point. The Maidan revolution was started by protestors who wanted a country that wasn't subservient to Moscow.

FireDragon76 · Sep 25, 2023

durangodawood said:
Also, I hope no one at all here is falling for this sick notion of Putin as a sort of white-knight Christian/traditionalist bulwark against the "decadent west."

I wouldn't go so far to say Putin isn't religious, but his "religion" is more like neopagan fascist woo than anything an Evangelical would recognize as Christianity. In fact, in Russia, promoting religion in public by non-Orthodox Christians is strictly forbidden by law.

durangodawood · Sep 25, 2023

FireDragon76 said:
I wouldn't go so far to say Putin isn't religious, but his "religion" is more like neopagan fascist woo than anything an Evangelical would recognize as Christianity. In fact, in Russia, promoting religion in public by non-Orthodox Christians is strictly forbidden by law.

We cant look into Putin's soul (embarrassing GW Bush idiocy notwithstanding). But we can see evidence of:

Personal reliance on superstition over faith.
Subsuming the church under the states authority, for state purposes..
Tactics the are radically anti Christian, morally.

FireDragon76 · Sep 25, 2023

durangodawood said:
We cant look into Putin's soul (embarrassing GW Bush idiocy notwithstanding). But we can see evidence of:

Personal reliance on superstition over faith.
Subsuming the church under the states authority, for state purposes..
Tactics the are radically anti Christian, morally.

The best explanation I have seen about what Putin really believes, starting with Ivan Ilyin. Putin has made no secret about what motivates him:

Desk trauma · Sep 25, 2023

Love365 said:
A buffer zone would be progress for peace.

Good thing Russia is so large, plenty of room for them to set up buffer zones on their side of the border.

childeye 2 · Sep 25, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
There is not a "right side" here because it is war. I don't want war.

To answer the OP. I do not know why I am going to vote for yet, but I will not vote for Trump and I will not vote for the Democrats.

God defines what is good and evil because as Creator He made it so. His Word in our hearts and minds is the positive energy of His Light. When people can't see the right side from the wrong side, then unfortunately they can't distinguish falsehood from Truth. It's a spiritual blindness that attempts the futility of trying to determine where the Light ends and the darkness begins rather than realizing that all that matters is from which direction the Light is shining from. That's why there was an attack at the capitol on January 6, because people believed a lie was the Light of God.

It's perfectly sane to not want war because war is destructive, but the reality is that conflicts will arise because they are inevitable due to people not being able to tell a lie from the Truth. As a matter of conscience, it's undeniable for me that Putin invaded Ukraine, and that Putin escalated this conflict into a military war under the deception of sending in peacekeepers, and that he was speaking a lie to justify his actions. Putin even had anyone in Russia who called it a war arrested. So, I'd be a liar before God to not acknowledge that Putin is in the wrong here, just like I knew Putin wanted Trump to be President, and just like I knew both Fox news and Trump were lying about the election being stolen. I'm voting Democratic because that is what the liars like Putin and Trump don't want.

All Becomes New · Sep 25, 2023

childeye 2 said:
God defines what is good and evil because as Creator He made it so. His Word in our hearts and minds is the positive energy of His Light. When people can't see the right side from the wrong side, then unfortunately they can't distinguish falsehood from Truth. It's a spiritual blindness. That's why there was an attack at the capitol on January 6, because people believed a lie was true.

It's perfectly sane to not want war because war is destructive, but the reality is that such conflicts will arise because they are inevitable due to people not being able to tell a lie from the Truth. As a matter of conscience, it's undeniable for me that Putin invaded Ukraine, and Putin escalated this war under the deception of sending in peacekeepers and was speaking a lie. Putin even had anyone in Russia who called it a war arrested. So, I'd be a liar before God to not acknowledge that Putin is in the wrong here.

By all means, go and fight the Russians if you are so sure. You can start by joining the US military.

childeye 2 · Sep 25, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
By all means, go and fight the Russians if you are so sure. You can start by joining the US military.

I'm sure who the deceived and deceivers are because I'm not ignoring the facts about right and wrong. Ultimately, I believe whatever happens will serve God's purpose since all things work for good to those who Love God. I don't feel any need to join the army, only to show support for those who are defending themselves in Ukraine. As for the spiritual war, God's Word would of course not lead me to vote for a person who is clearly lying.

All Becomes New · Sep 25, 2023

childeye 2 said:
I'm sure who the liars are because I'm not ignoring the facts. Ultimately, I believe whatever happens will serve God's purpose since all things work for good to those who Love God. As for the spiritual war, God's Word of course instructs me not to vote for the liars.

That's not what I said, but you already know that.

The point you are missing is that I am pointing out that you are not actually willing to give up anything for this supposed "Truth" that you are so sure about.

I will make it easier. Why don't you tithe to Ukraine so you can help them out with their holy war?

childeye 2 · Sep 25, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
That's not what I said, but you already know that.

You indicated there's no "right side" to war. I believe there is a right reason to fight a war and a wrong reason to fight a war. That's where the contention is.

Jesse Dornfeld said:
The point you are missing is that I am pointing out that you are not actually willing to give up anything for this supposed "Truth" that you are so sure about.

That's not true. I'm presently here spending time to speak in support of the Truth by using facts to point out the lies.

Jesse Dornfeld said:
I will make it easier. Why don't you tithe to Ukraine so you can help them out with their holy war?

I already support various charities for Ukraine.

All Becomes New · Sep 25, 2023

childeye 2 said:
You indicated there's no "right side" to war. I believe there is a right reason to fight a war and a wrong reason to fight a war. That's where the contention is.

That's not true. I'm presently here spending time to speak in support of the Truth by using facts to point out the lies.

I already support various charities for Ukraine.

TBH, I couldn't care less if Ukraine has to lose part of its border. I'd much rather see fewer people dying.

childeye 2 · Sep 25, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
TBH, I couldn't care less if Ukraine has to lose part of its border. I'd much rather see fewer people dying.

I have to go pick somebody up, so I apologize, and I'll have to get back to you in about half an hour.

All Becomes New · Sep 25, 2023

childeye 2 said:
I have to go pick somebody up, so I apologize, and I'll have to get back to you in about half an hour.

I'm going to bed. Maybe later.

childeye 2 · Sep 25, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
TBH, I couldn't care less if Ukraine has to lose part of its border. I'd much rather see fewer people dying.

That's a rather moot point since no one would die at all if Putin wasn't having them killed when they resist the taking of their land, and Putin has already stated that he invaded because, in his view, Ukraine as well as other neighboring countries have always belonged to Russia and he's just taking back what he deems was stolen during the collapse of the Soviet Union. It's not about losing part of a border.

And it actually gets worse, because most Russian conscripts don't even believe in nor want to fight this war but are being forced to do so under penalty of prison. There are also several mercenary armies fighting there who simply do it for payment. That's why this conflict is in reality about Democracy vs Autocracy, because it's the action of only one man trying to expand his influence over other nations around him through deceit and military conquest.

Bradskii · Sep 25, 2023

Jesse Dornfeld said:
TBH, I couldn't care less if Ukraine has to lose part of its border. I'd much rather see fewer people dying.

Swap Ukraine to the US. How much are you prepared to lose?

Who should I vote for to end the war?

Well-Known Member

Slave to Christ

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic

Well-Known Member

Slave to Christ

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

re Member

Well-Known Member

The pickles are up to something

Well-Known Member

Slave to Christ

Well-Known Member

Slave to Christ

Well-Known Member

Slave to Christ

Well-Known Member

Slave to Christ

Well-Known Member

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency