Who really goes to Hell?

[ViaCrucis]

As for your all asking for scriptural proof baptism is the first step in showing obedience, what did Jesus say.....

John 14:15

What does John 14:15 have to do with Baptism?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Fred Manalo]

Shalom. God’s Peace be with you.

ALL MANKIND HAS A SECOND CHANCE

“For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” 1 Peter 4:6 KJV

Think about all those souls who drowned in the flood and all who lived and died before Noah. And all who were born and died after Noah until Jesus’ birth and up to now. All of them who died without without any knowledge of the gospel, not knowing that Jesus died to save the world and that only those who believe in him will have eternal life and all who do not will perish. All of them, all who died in the flesh, are alive in spirit where they must wait until the Last Day.

This is the good news for all mankind who learns it:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”John 3:16 KJV

Isn’t it possible for God, for Jesus Christ, to go to where all the spirits of those who died are and preach this good news to them? So that they may also know that God so loved them “that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life?” So that they may also have the chance to believe and have everlasting life?


This is why my answer to your question is that none of those will necessarily go to hell. I see from what St Peter wrote in the Bible that God reveals the gospel to all the world, to all who were born into this world. If not while they lived, then also where their spirits are after they die. The good news is that the whole world has a chance to know the good news of the gospel. Even those still living who hears it and doesn’t believe are given another chance after they die. Whosoever believes will have eternal life. Whosoever does not believe will perish.

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.” 1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV

“For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” 1 Peter 4:6 KJV

 

[chad kincham]

There's this idea that boggles my mind for quite a while and I'd like to hear your opinions about it:

First off, imagine the situation of a person A: You're born in some poor, remote part of India. You're raised fully in hinduist faith. Your all life you basically know nothing but the hindu gods, which you also worship. One day there's this white guy who comes around and starts preaching something about one God, which is actually a three at once or something, but you don't really understand him, it doesn't really catch you by the heart or anything. Few days later he wanders off. After some years, you get ill and you die.

Now: you stand before the judgement of God. You heard the word of God but you didn't accept it. Are you going to Hell?

Now, alternatively, person B: You're born to atheistic family in a very atheistic western country, let's say Norway. You're raised in a profoundly atheistic way, involving absolutely zero room for spirituality. When you grow in age, you maybe encounter some people who practice the religion, but you're lead to believe they're some kind of lunatics and to stay away from them. Maybe someone from your work tries to talk you into the Christianity, but you're provided with scientific evidence for any question you may have about the world, and since your parents didn't put a seed of the spirituality in you as you were growing up, you never get to question it. You grow old and you die.

Now: you stand before the judgement of God. You heard the word of God but you didn't accept it. Are you going to Hell?

I've been Christian my whole life and I've spent plenty of time reading Bible. Personally, the idea of either of these people going to some kind of 'eternal torment' goes completely against the idea of the righteous and merciful God that Bible preaches. I understand that there's no verse, no simple line to prove this, but both logically and spiritually I wholeheartedly believe in some kind of 'backdoor trick' (as atheists opposing this idea would've called it) of a last-second of your life revelation of Jesus who you get to freely accept and go to Heaven, regardless of where or how you lived.

What do you guys think?

What the Bible presents is, when the gospel is preached, the Holy Spirit is present to convict those who hear it of its truth, and that they need to repent of their sins, and accept that Jesus is the Son of God and the savior. The HS gives one enough faith to believe (faith comes by hearing the word of God), but they have free will to resist the drawing of the Holy Spirit. Once you hear the gospel it's your responsibility to respond. If you don't, you are lost, condemned, hellbound, however you choose to put it.

 

[Fred Manalo]

What the Bible presents is, when the gospel is preached, the Holy Spirit is present to convict those who hear it of its truth, and that they need to repent of their sins, and accept that Jesus is the Son of God and the savior. The HS gives one enough faith to believe (faith comes by hearing the word of God), but they have free will to resist the drawing of the Holy Spirit. Once you hear the gospel it's your responsibility to respond. If you don't, you are lost, condemned, hellbound, however you choose to put it.

Shalom. God’s Peace be with you.

ALL MANKIND HAS A SECOND CHANCE

“For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” 1 Peter 4:6 KJV

Think about all those souls who drowned in the flood and all who lived and died before Noah. And all who were born and died after Noah until Jesus’ birth and up to now. All of them who died without without any knowledge of the gospel, not knowing that Jesus died to save the world and that only those who believe in him will have eternal life and all who do not will perish. All of them, all who died in the flesh, are alive in spirit where they must wait until the Last Day.

This is the good news for all mankind who learns it:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”John 3:16 KJV

Isn’t it possible for God, for Jesus Christ, to go to where all the spirits of those who died are and preach this good news to them? So that they may also know that God so loved them “that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life?” So that they may also have the chance to believe and have everlasting life?


This is why my answer to your question is that none of those will necessarily go to hell. I see from what St Peter wrote in the Bible that God reveals the gospel to all the world, to all who were born into this world. If not while they lived, then also where their spirits are after they die. The good news is that the whole world has a chance to know the good news of the gospel. Even those still living who hears it and doesn’t believe are given another chance after they die. Whosoever believes will have eternal life. Whosoever does not believe will perish.

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.” 1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV

“For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” 1 Peter 4:6 KJV

 

[BradB]

...All of them who died without without any knowledge of the gospel, not knowing that Jesus died to save the world and that only those who believe in him will have eternal life and all who do not will perish.

Do you know that not a single person will ever go to hell for not hearing and or receiving the gospel of Jesus Christ? Not one. There is nor ever will be anyone in hell for rejecting Jesus Christ and his salvation on the cross. This is why so many are confused about this issue. In Romans 3:23 we are told that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. A few passages over God tells us in Romans 6:23 that the penalty for sin is death. He is talking about spiritual death eternally separated from God in hell. Jesus told us plenty about hell. First contrary to your claim that all those who died will have eternal life...Jesus said WIDE (REPEAT) WIDE is the path that leads to destruction and many (repeat) many are on that path. Next, to wake us up to the seriousness of hell Jesus said its so bad that if your hand causes you to sin you better cut it off and toss it in the trash for you would be better off entering heaven with only one hand than having both hands and enter into the flame of hell where the fire is never quenched and there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Likewise with the eye...pluck it out rather than to enter hell. Jesus said there was a day coming when He would send forth His angels and gather up all who offend and commit iniquity and cast them into the furnace of fire. Yes in Revelation we read that even liars have their place in the LAKE OF FIRE. In another place we are told that the smoke of their torment ascends day and night forever.

Many other places we are told about this eternal place of torment. So if all have sinned and the penalty is separation from God in hell...then all are headed to an eternal hell. Not for rejecting Jesus but for their sins of lying, stealing, murders, adulteries, coveting, blasphemy, idol worship etc... We are all headed there. Jesus said "I didn't come to condemn the world." This is because we are already condemned in our sins. Jesus said "I come that you might have life and have it abundantly." Jesus came to rescue us from hell. Think of it this way. If a man falls overboard from a cruse ship he is already drowning in the sea. When a coastguard rescuer swoops down in a chopper and says "grab my hand and be saved"...can you imagine the man saying "So your saying if I don't grab your hand your going to send me to drown?" The man is already drowning, the rescuer is there to save him. We are already drowning in sin and Jesus our Rescuer is here to save us from hell.

This is the good news for all mankind who learns it:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”John 3:16 KJV

Yes Jesus did die for the whole world, but the whole world is not receiving Him. John 1 tells us you must receive Him. "As many as received Him to them He gave power to become the children of God." The second part of Romans 6:23 says that the free "gift" of God is eternal life "IN" Christ Jesus. So to receive this gift we must enter IN to a relationship with Jesus Christ. Romans 10:9-10 tells us this is done by making a confession of Jesus Christ as our Lord (talking about actually making Him Lord as opposed to just saying the words) and by coming to truly believe in your heart the resurrection story.

Isn’t it possible for God, for Jesus Christ, to go to where all the spirits of those who died are and preach this good news to them? So that they may also know that God so loved them “that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life?” So that they may also have the chance to believe and have everlasting life?

Yes it's possible for God to do anything He wants to do. But this kind of reminds me of theistic evolutionists asking "isn't it possible for God to create life through evolution?" Yes God can. But we are not talking about what God "can" do we are talking about what He tells us He DID do. He says He created all the kinds separately and to reproduce after their own kind. He also says that "It is appointed for man to die once and after that the judgment. He tells us we are given this life to make our decision. After we die we face God's judgment. If we did not accept His gift of salvation then we are judged for our sins and condemned to an eternal hell for our just punishment.

Is God sending anyone to hell who never had a chance to be saved? NO! God is just and His judgments are just and right. You do not "know" any existed that never had a chance until you pass into eternity and see it from the other side and from that perspective. From our perspective you are just presuming there are some. So from our current human perspective we must only go by what the Bible teaches on the subject and not our own thoughts. For example it tells us that God first reveals His existence to all men through science. (Romans 1:20) So much so that we are without excuse. Secondly it teaches that He built within each of us a moral compass that tells us right from wrong so we know when we have offended that God. (Romans 2:14-15) Finally God reveals Himself to the world through Christ which of course is carried by the missionaries to the people.

Imagine a Hindu person looks at creation and agrees that there must be an all knowing all powerful God out there of some kind. He also tries his best to serve that God by trying to be morally good even though he knows he fails sometimes. He just hopes that somehow his good will out way his bad when he dies. The Bible teaches us that since this person has responded to the first two lights of creation and conscience, that God will divinely respond by sending to that person the light of Christ. Want to see this in scripture? Go and read the entire chapter of Acts 10. This man acknowledged God and did his best to serve Him, and God sent Peter (the missionary) to Cornelius' house to give him the light of Christ. Was this just a one time unique event? Notice what Peter says in verse 35. "IN EVERY NATION whoever fears God and works righteousness God will accept." So just like Cornelius, your Hindu, or Atheist, or anyone who responds to the first two lights of creation and conscience, God will send to them Christ.

Is it possible for someone to have lived and died and never heard of Christ? Absolutely! But only those who rejected God's revelation through creation and conscience. Why would God waste His time sending missionaries to someone who has already rejected what they have been shown? And yes these people will go to hell for all eternity. Did they go to hell for rejecting Christ? No because no one goes to hell because they rejected Christ. Also consider that God's plan of salvation has always been the same since man first sinned in the Garden. God told the serpent that One would come Who would crush the head of the serpent but bruise His heal in the process. This was the first prediction of the Holy One to come, aka Messiah, aka Christ. Therefore Christianity has existed since the Garden even though it wasn't called that. They looked forward to the cross (the One true Sacrifice) while we look back to the cross. Recall even in Old Testament times anyone of the world could profess their faith in the Holy One to come by becoming a Jew. The Jews ceremonial sacrifices were merely a foreshadow looking forward to the One true Sacrifice. God's plan of salvation has always been the same since the beginning.

Finally to forever put to rest the notion that some will go to hell without having been given a chance, in Revelation 5:9 we are told that there will be people from EVERY nation, tribe, people, and tongue in heaven who were washed in the blood of the Lamb. So that means according to scriptures there is no such thing as some tribe or people somewhere who never got a chance to hear the truth of the Gospel of Christ.

 

[Tayla]

you stand before the judgement of God. You heard the word of God but you didn't accept it. Are you going to Hell?

I think that at each person's death, Jesus appears before each person and demonstrates he is truly God and preaches the gospel to them. Their decision at that time is what determines their salvation. Everything before that is practice.

Why would God judge someone to eternity in hell if the gospel they heard was distorted or if they never heard the true gospel at all?

 

[Fred Manalo]

I think that at each person's death, Jesus appears before each person and demonstrates he is truly God and preaches the gospel to them. Their decision at that time is what determines their salvation. Everything before that is practice.

Why would God judge someone to eternity in hell if the gospel they heard was distorted or if they never heard the true gospel at all?

That’s a beautiful way of putting it. That Jesus, the Light, himself appears or welcomes everyone of us right after our spirit leaves our body and reveals to us the good news of salvation. As the disciple whom Jesus loved wrote it: “That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.” John 1:9 KJV No matter what religion you had or what you believed in this life. What matters is that you were born into this world, that God so loved you that he gave his only begotten Son to save you from death and, if you believe, will give you eternal life. We may think that they are dead, but to God everyone is alive. Everyone is given a perfect chance to believe or not to believe God. This is the God I see in the Bible. He is just. He is fair. He is Love. He gave his only begotten Son to die so that we may live forever with him, our Father. What more could he do to make us believe? All he wants from all of us is for us to love him with all our heart, all our mind, all our soul and all our strength. Or even as he loved us. We may not be able to do this in this body, but after he reveals himself and what he has done for us in the next life, I believe we will be totally in love with God. Forever and ever.

 

[BradB]

I think that at each person's death, Jesus appears...

This is exactly why God gave us His word...so that we wouldn't get lost in our own imaginations or "thinkings." You see God tells us exactly what happens when we die. He says it is appointed to everyone to die once and then the judgment. Not the appearance. (Heb. 9:27)

 

[ClementofA]

Shalom. God’s Peace be with you.

ALL MANKIND HAS A SECOND CHANCE

“For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” 1 Peter 4:6 KJV

Think about all those souls who drowned in the flood and all who lived and died before Noah. And all who were born and died after Noah until Jesus’ birth and up to now. All of them who died without without any knowledge of the gospel, not knowing that Jesus died to save the world and that only those who believe in him will have eternal life and all who do not will perish. All of them, all who died in the flesh, are alive in spirit where they must wait until the Last Day.

This is the good news for all mankind who learns it:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”John 3:16 KJV

Isn’t it possible for God, for Jesus Christ, to go to where all the spirits of those who died are and preach this good news to them? So that they may also know that God so loved them “that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life?” So that they may also have the chance to believe and have everlasting life?


This is why my answer to your question is that none of those will necessarily go to hell. I see from what St Peter wrote in the Bible that God reveals the gospel to all the world, to all who were born into this world. If not while they lived, then also where their spirits are after they die. The good news is that the whole world has a chance to know the good news of the gospel. Even those still living who hears it and doesn’t believe are given another chance after they die. Whosoever believes will have eternal life. Whosoever does not believe will perish.

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.” 1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV

“For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.” 1 Peter 4:6 KJV

Why only exactly 2 chances? Is that a magic number? Why not 5, 10, 100, 10,000...?

 

[Fred Manalo]

Why only exactly 2 chances? Is that a magic number? Why not 5, 10, 100, 10,000...?

The first chance is in this life. After our body dies, our spirits go somewhere where, still alive outside the body, the gospel is preached to us. Your question may seem mocking at first, but looking at it seriously, one may wonder, what if you do not believe it when it is preached to you initially in that state? Will you get a third or more chance? Like Peter who asked Jesus how many times he may forgive his brother.
“Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.” Matthew 18:21-22 KJV

I don’t know what exact number to give you, but knowing God, how patient and loving he is, I am sure he will give you all the chances to believe until it is time to judge everyone on the last day. And even while in this mortal body, God gives us all the chance to know and to love him because he does not want any of us to perish.

 

[LadyCrosstalk]

Via Crucis said: "...So it is up to us to perform the right things in order to win God's forgiveness and gracious love?"

No--faith comes by the convincing power of the Holy Spirit. When we are convinced of His truth, we are led to repentance and God forgives through the expiating work of the Blood of Jesus, that cleanses one of all unrighteousness. That is the way that it has always worked--there is no other way.

 

[LadyCrosstalk]

Beside the fact that this answer is not an answer at all, as you've said (effectively) that faith faith comes to the one who has faith, this does not even attempt to answer my question.

I didn't ask who receives faith. I asked where does faith come from.

So, I'll ask it again: Where does faith come from?

-CryptoLutheran

Faith, of course, comes by the power of the Holy Spirit. He goes where He wants to go.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Via Crucis said: "...So it is up to us to perform the right things in order to win God's forgiveness and gracious love?"

No--faith comes by the convincing power of the Holy Spirit. When we are convinced of His truth, we are led to repentance and God forgives through the expiating work of the Blood of Jesus, that cleanses one of all unrighteousness. That is the way that it has always worked--there is no other way.

Is this forgiveness given on account of our act of repentance?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LadyCrosstalk]

Is this forgiveness given on account of our act of repentance?

-CryptoLutheran

I wouldn't characterize repentance as an act--it definitely seems to be an unbidden response to the convicting power of the Holy Spirit. I don't recall ever thinking that, "I must repent of my previous life of sin." The grief I felt was simply (in my case, and in the case of many whose testimonies I have heard) a response to how I had failed to please Him with my previous life. Anything else would have been mechanistic.