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Yes, and look where it got the Orthodox and Catholics
Luke 5:37 "And no one is casting Young Wine into Old skins, if yet no surely shall be ruined the Wine, the Young, of the skins, and it shall be being poured-out and its skin shall be perishing.
38 but Young/neon <3501> Wine into New skins is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 and no one driking Old immediately is willing Young, for he is saying, 'for the the Old is kind/mellow'".
Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying `New,' He hath made Old the First. The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance
I am still waiting for responses on this thread:
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7263327
Hello Simon,Their theology was wrong in many areas, there were many different interpretations of the same scriptures and in many cases they had next to NO access to bounce their ideas off of other great theological minds...So what gives? why the heavy leanings for understanding? Essentially the scriptures they used and the ones we use have remained unchanged, less some poor translations. It does not seem plausible to hang ones salvation on an early 3rds or 4th century interpretation of the same scripture we have NOW.
Hi there. ONLY if you want to learn church History. But if you want to learn about YHWH and His Christ JESUS, then you go to the Scriptures.But if you want to understand how the Church developed, there is no better place than the ECF's.
God Bless,
Yarddog
Hi there. ONLY if you want to learn church History. But if you want to learn about YHWH and His Christ JESUS, then you go to the Scriptures.
I heartily disagree.There is no doubt that scripture is the best place to learn about God the Father and his Son Jesus, but the earliest of ECF's understood these scriptures far better than we do today.
Hello again,I heartily disagree.
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7263824
Did the ECFs really know/understand the Scriptures better?
Ya think his bro Peter understood himHello again,
What makes anyone of the present day have an ability to understand scripture any better than a disciple of Paul?
Yarddog
I'm sure Peter understood everything Paul said as the other way around.Ya think his bro Peter understood him
2 Peter 3:16 As also/and in all the letters, speaking in them about these-things; in which are difficult to understand any which the un-learned and un-steadfast are wresting/twisting as also the rest of Writings, toward the own of them destruction/apwleian <684>. [# 684 used reve 17:8, 11]
Reve 17:8 The wild beast which you perceived was, and not is, and is being about to be ascending out of the abyss, and into destruction/apwleian <684> it is going away.
Ok thanks. Hope one day the Orthodox and RCC will mend the "fence" concerning their Schiszm. Peace.I'm sure Peter understood everything Paul said as the other way around.
Peter warned christians not about the things that the Apostles taught and that Paul wrote, but about those that distort the message. Peter talked about these people in chapter 2 as well.
YD
The Orthodox and Catholic Churches are working on that but let's hope it goes far beyond that.Ok thanks. Hope one day the Orthodox and RCC will mend the "fence" concerning their Schiszm. Peace.
Who are you referring this part of your post to?This tells me the source of your education in history is fairly well tainted with anti-catholic propaganda.
The statement you made above is simply not true. No reputable historian would make such a claim. All 5 ancient Sees can trace their beginnings back to the first Christians. The Roman See traces its originas back to Peter with the Roman Church being founded by Peter and Paul.
Which none of these tradtions can be found anywhere written from the Apostles. They are just heresay and mens opinions with a big name attached to them.
The bible is the truth and nothing but the truth. Scripture tells us this..
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the LORD are true; they are righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 They are more desirable than gold, yes, than much fine gold; Sweeter also than honey and the drippings of the honeycomb.
Psalm 119, "Thy Word is very pure." "Thy law is truth." "All Thy commandments are truth." "The sum of Thy Word is truth." "Every one of Thy righteous ordinances endures forever for all Thy commandments are righteous." Psalm 111:7, "All his precepts are sure." Romans 7:12, "God's Word is holy, righteous and good." And you have in Deuteronomy 4:2, "Do not add to Scripture." You have in Revelation 22:18 and 19, "Do not add to Scripture, do not take away from Scripture." It is in total complete and infallible.
Guess you will just have to keep waiting, and enjoy your schism from the RCs [or is it the other way round].Thus, I have yet to see a Protestant give a Solid- Scripture proving Solo-Scriptural. I am still waiting.......
Blessings,
Ramon
We are never told to keep our eyes upon the church.Nor the ECF. We are told to keep our eyes upon Jesus for He is the author and the finisher of our faith..
How come? Do you go by the Catholic's translation/interpretation of Revelation?
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7263327
The word 'tradition' itself is a vile one, because it is both admission of human teaching and threat that failure to comply will be met with violence. In fact, all traditions are novelties that were forced upon people at some time, and those of violent and fearful disposition would still prefer others to comply with them. They are, in reality, nothing more respectable than political interference. Although they are novel, they all have their roots in the paganism that often infested Israel and other states, including Rome. All RC distinctives remove initiative and control from Christians to the state, or to agents of the state, just as the pagn religions of Rome did of the plebeians.BTW, this debate would not be occuring at all if, in fact, all of the traditions of these churches were actually biblical.
Actually that's just wrong. Paul continued to urge people to unity of fellowship, and of faith,
1 Corinthians 1:10
[ Divisions in the Church ] I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
and to follow our elders!
1 Timothy 5:17
The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.
You must have the expurgated version of the NT
1Co 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.Where's it say that something has to be written down?
Hi Mama,1Co 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.
Yes He was but as the letters of the Apostles went out they were also scripture. We see Paul saying what Peter wrote was scripture and we see where Peter calling what Paul wrote scripture.Hi Mama,
Do you understand that Paul was talking about Old Testament when he says "what is written"? If you were to go by this then you would not be able to use what is now the New Testament.
Have you ever read the Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians? Clement is mentioned in Phillipians 4:3.
3 Yes, and I ask you also, my true yokemate, to help them, for they have struggled at my side in promoting the gospel, along with Clement and my other co-workers, whose names are in the book of life.
Why shouldn't we read the things that Clement wrote? Many people have a distrust of the Catholic Church but don't think of these people as the Roman Catholic Church, think of them as the men that walked and talked with the Apostles. They understood what was taught.
This letter was most likely written just after the deaths of Peter and Paul.
There are many other letters by wonderful men whose writings show their tremendous love for Jesus. Many people read the books of present day authors but why should we forsake those books written by the men who lived and died in the service of God in the early days?
Yarddog
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