Who or what is responsible for suffering?

[Kaon]

Looking at the appalling suffering that there is in this world, I think it can broadly be divided into suffering deliberately or accidentally inflicted by living creatures and so-called natural events, like earthquakes, extreme weather, etc. There was a graphic example of the former on the BBC news the other night where a 5-year-old girl had had her leg blown off and lost at least part of the foot on her other leg as an innocent casualty of the war that has broken out between Turkey and the Kurds in Syria. A young life ruined for what? No-one should have to suffer such horror, least of all a child. It makes me sick at heart just to think about it. And it keeps happening over and over and over again. There is no doubt in my mind that at least as far as these types of events are concerned, there are evil forces at work.

Now as far as the other types of suffering, I’d be particularly interested to know what others think about the natural events and who or what is responsible for those. Let’s take weather extremes as an example, such as the devastation recently caused in The Bahamas. It begs the question – is God actually in control, i.e., is He causing the storms to develop and then guiding them to pass over areas of population so that as many people die or suffer as a result? That would of course amount to mass murder by human standards and would suggest at the very least that God doesn’t care what happens to us in much the same way that the people pressing the buttons on the missile launchers don’t care about the victims on the receiving end, such as the child I mentioned above. There only appears to be three other possible answers as far as I can tell; 1) either God is not in full control of this world at the moment (akin perhaps to it being on auto-pilot) or 2) some aspects of the natural world are under the control of evil forces or 3) we are mistaken in our belief that God even exists at all.

We are responsible for our suffering. Just like Adam willingly abdicated his God-Given dominion over this plane of existence, we give these entities authority over us by our ignorance of their existence, and our actions.

These entities don't get to [spiritually] defile us unless we give them permission - ignorance of how we give them permission is not their problem. The Most High God has already told us how to behave to marginalize their influence on us.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

In everything we are to give thanks: "all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." (Romans8:28) If God allows something then He has a reason and a purpose and He will reveal in Heaven. Paul tells us there is a wisdom for those who understand the Hidden Mysteries of God. For those who do not believe they go from bad to worse. Those who believe go from Glory to Glory.

So if I were to meet the 8-year-old girl who had her leg blown off, whose life is ruined and who undoubtedly is completely traumatised, not to mention to unimaginable pain and fear that she must be experiencing, memories of which will haunt her for the rest of her life (assuming she survives that is), I should just tell her that "In everything we are to give thanks..."? What do you think the reaction would be? What would youe reaction be if you were that child or if you were one of her relatives?

 

[joshua 1 9]

I should just tell her that "In everything we are to give thanks..."?

That is what the Bible says. I was in training for medic in the army. They were talking about putting bodies in body bags. They said not to worry if you put three arms or three legs in a bag because it just is not possible to sort them out and find out what arm and what leg goes with what body. Still the Bible says in "everything give thanks".

I think this statement is designed to short circuit the brain. How do we give thanks for the 6 million people that died in the holocaust. Or the millions of people killed by Hitler & Stalin? In everything we are to give thanks to God because He is good. Because He causes all things to work together for good. We can go on and on about all the pain, misery, suffering and sorrow in this world. Yet in everything we are to give thanks. "In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." (1Thes5:18) In the Greek and the Hebrew this word: "everything" means ALL. IN all things there is NOTHING that we are not to give thanks for. Because God's rock solid promise to us is that all is going to work together for good.

 

[SkyWriting]

Hmm. I don't think that would bring much comfort to those unfortunate souls in The Bahamas...

The ones who lived have everything to be grateful for.
Those who didn't have no reason to be distressed.

 

[SkyWriting]

Hmm. I don't think that would bring much comfort to those unfortunate souls in The Bahamas that have lost everything due to the recent hurricane that passed directly...

There is nothing more freeing and liberating than loosing everything.
Sean Penn - after fire leveled his neighborhood.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

There is nothing more freeing and liberating than loosing everything.
Sean Penn - after fire leveled his neighborhood.

Well I have to say that that is one of the most bizarre quotes I have ever heard and almost certainly would represent a miniscule opinion of the population. Here’s why:

So, according to that person, we’ve been getting it all wrong since God expelled Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden. To use some examples from events within our relatively-recent history: We shouldn’t look on the Holocaust as a bad thing at all, but a liberating experience and to fight was wrong - everyone should have just handed over all they had to the Nazis and then volunteered to go to the gas chambers, not forgetting to thank God on the way there! What about 9/11? That must have been a truly thrilling experience to be liberated in such a dramatic way. Did you hear the crowds cheering in the streets as the towers collapsed? And let’s not forget all the refugees fleeing conflicts around the world – they should surely stay at home and wait for partial or total destruction, because to experience the liberation that follows would surely be worth it.

I could make a fortune this way – I could set up a company called “Spiritual Liberation” and offer to destroy whole towns to give the people living there a once-in-a-lifetime experience of liberty. I would obviously have to take payment upfront, because any survivors wouldn’t be able to pay. I could even tell them not to worry about any friends or relatives still at home at the time as the only thing they would miss would be the exhilarating feeling of liberty once they had lost everything they ever had, including any precious photographs or other memorabilia linking them to their past life. In poor counties of course, things would be a bit more difficult, because survivors might have to wait days or even weeks for food/clean water/medical help to arrive. Still, they could always fetch water from the nearby sewage-polluted river, if it hadn’t run dry due to drought and the whole experience would still be worth it in the long run.

 

[SkyWriting]

Well I have to say that that is one of the most bizarre quotes I have ever heard and almost certainly would represent a miniscule opinion of the population. Here’s why:

So, according to that person, we’ve been getting it all wrong since God expelled Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden.

A great example! God expected Adam to Sin from the time he was created.
Knowing that true love is allowing people to voluntarily seek God is best for everyone.
Knowing that there is pain involved.

 

[miggles]

What do you mean by control? If God was actively controlling everything he would be controlling and causing evil. We know that God is not the author of evil. We know that Satan is the prince of this world. Remember when the storm threatened to overturn the boat on the Sea of Galilee, before Jesus calmed it? They were heading towards the demon possessed man. Most likely that storm was caused by demonic activity. Best to remember that we live in a cursed world. God has not yet re made it back into Eden, where he will be the only ruler.

God gave us free will. He doesn't interfere with it. evil is a result of our free will.

 

[SkyWriting]

Well I have to say that that is one of the most bizarre quotes I have ever heard and almost certainly would represent a miniscule opinion of the population. Here’s why:

So, according to that person, we’ve been getting it all wrong since God expelled Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden.

7 Scientifically Proven Benefits of Gratitude | Psychology Today

 

[SkyWriting]

God gave us free will. He doesn't interfere with it. evil is a result of our free will.

Free will is the result of evil. Only through our disconnect with God
can we voluntarily be grateful and love God in return.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

God allows 'stuff' to happen on earth: "Time and chance".

I think you're right - we're running on autopilot at the moment and it's just tough if you happen to be in the wrong place at the moment some disaster strikes.

 

[ChristianGirl_96]

This is a interesting topic to discuss. Suffering is part of life. For a new Christian perspective on why God uses suffering to teach us please read this post on the subject here.

Brokenness and Suffering: A Lesson From Ducklings - What Do You Do, Dear?

I used to work at a Christian care company. The idea that suffering was something to be avoided was foreign to us. Practically all of the staff members were active churchgoers. We would often talk about the Bible.

Suffering is meant to shape us.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I think you're right - we're running on autopilot at the moment and it's just tough if you happen to be in the wrong place at the moment some disaster strikes.

Yet
it is written
in Scripture - Yahuweh's Breathed Inspired Word -
that He Worketh ALL THINGS out for GOOD to those who LOVE HIM AND who are CALLED ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE.


i.e. nothing is left to chance, fate, nor ever, no never, 'luck' (God hates it when HIS PEOPLE call on lady luck- (and they usually get disciplined, chastised, or scourged for correction; as a good Father always scourges His sons - and a child without scourging is not belonging to the Father, i.e. is not His son) ...

 

[AvisG]

There's nothing more fascinating than watching Christians tap-dance as they try to rationalize what God is up to and why, particularly when it comes to the problem of evil. Adam and Eve were induced by the crafty serpent to eat from the forbidden tree and thus all of creation spiraled into evil, from human nature to the animal kingdom to the mountains and oceans to the asteroid belt and beyond. Well, OK, if that makes sense to you.

I actually think what was going on is that the author(s) of Genesis were as puzzled as we are by the obvious flaws in human nature and crafted the Adam and Eve myth not as a historical "explanation" but simply to recognize and express the obvious truth that human nature is flawed in some mysterious way that humans can never seem to rise above. (I always find the myth interesting because it's the very first two humans who couldn't obey God's simplest command even thought they were living in an earthly paradise and in direct communion with Him. The myth also has the nifty feature - from the perspective of a patriarchal society - of allowing Eve to shift at least some of the blame to the serpent and Adam to shift most of the blame to Eve - so Adam is practically innocent in the whole thing!)

There has never been and never will be a genuinely convincing theodicy (systematic explanation as to why the vast quantity of human, animal and natural evil makes sense in the context of God as Christians conceive Him to be). There are effective apologetic "defenses" to atheists' arguments that such evil flatly disproves the existence of God, but no convincing theodicy. It's like the Holy Grail of theology.

Sure, we can all conceive of why some evil - or at least what appears to be evil - might well serve the sorts of purposes that are suggested when Christians attempt to rationalize. But not the sheer volume, magnitude and seeming randomness and irrationality of the evil, tragedy and suffering that permeates our reality. I can't locate the title now, but a few years ago I read a really excellent book by a serious Christian theologian who suggested that events such as the Holocaust demand that we rethink our notions of God because no attempt at theodicy is going to ever make sense of the Holocaust.

I think the best we can do is to stop trying to rationalize and simply accept that from the human perspective there is no way to reconcile the God in whom we believe with the sheer volume, magnitude, randomness and irrationality of the evil we experience and observe. I don't believe the Adam and Eve myth - or even the Adam and Eve "historical report," if that's your perspective - provides a believable account of the genesis of this evil or that the rationalizations we resort to help at all - indeed, they only trivialize the issues. I think we have to say, if we wish to continue to believe, that "It's a complete mystery. We can only hope and trust that we'll see in the end how it all made sense because it certainly doesn't make sense now."

(There is one doctrine that solves in an instant the problem of evil, as well as other significant problems such as the reality that billions of people in non-Christian cultures have no realistic opportunity to come to Christ even if they hear the Gospel message: That's right, reincarnation! I don't promote this doctrine, but I do leave it as a tentative possibility in my own thinking, particularly since it's a belief that has been held throughout the world long before Christianity existed, there is a pretty solid body of pretty solid research to support it, and the biblical objections strike me as weak.)