Who is the woman in Revelations 12?

[eleos1954]

Ah man, not gotquestions that is one of the most bias and typical protestant sites out there.

It (got questions) is somewhat a Protestant view .... it is not the the view of the reformers ... it is a "amalgamated" view ... two (or more) views merged .... much of protestantism has been undermined due to propaganda put out by the Jesuits .... the Jesuits were formed specifically to destroy protestantism and they continue to do so by putting forth false interpretations and ideas that many protestants have gobbled up in error. The tentacles of the Jesuits reach deep throughout society .... they work very secretly and their deceptions go unoticed for the most part.

They (the Jesuits) have created great confusion among protestants (divide and conquer) .... this is mainly why there are so many protestant denominations.

People need to revisit the reformation and also the counter reformation ... in depth.

 

[narnia59]

It (got questions) is somewhat a Protestant view .... it is not the the view of the reformers ... it is a "amalgamated" view ... two (or more) views merged .... much of protestantism has been undermined due to propaganda put out by the Jesuits .... the Jesuits were formed specifically to destroy protestantism and they continue to do so by putting forth false interpretations and ideas that many protestants have gobbled up in error. The tentacles of the Jesuits reach deep throughout society .... they work very secretly and their deceptions go unoticed for the most part.

They (the Jesuits) have created great confusion among protestants (divide and conquer) .... this is mainly why there are so many protestant denominations.

People need to revisit the reformation and also the counter reformation ... in depth.

The "reformers" did their own "divide" before the Jesuits were even founded. Luther, Calvin and Zwingli all went different paths based upon their own varying interpretations of Scripture and therefore set the fracturing in motion.

What you call "false interpretations" that many Protestant have gobbled up in error they call "rightly dividing the word of truth." And likewise would say you have gobbled up false interpretations in error.

The divisions found within Protestants have nothing to do with the Jesuits or the Catholic Church. 100% rooted in the belief that individuals can interpret Scripture on their own and if somebody else's interpretation differs, mine is right and they are in error. Hence a split. Right from the beginning with the original "reformers." No help needed from anyone on the outside of Protestantism, internal pride does it all on its own.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Revelation 17 Commentary

I'll look it over. Is there a thread that deals with that topic?

 

[eleos1954]

The "reformers" did their own "divide" before the Jesuits were even founded. Luther, Calvin and Zwingli all went different paths based upon their own varying interpretations of Scripture and therefore set the fracturing in motion.

What you call "false interpretations" that many Protestant have gobbled up in error they call "rightly dividing the word of truth." And likewise would say you have gobbled up false interpretations in error.

The divisions found within Protestants have nothing to do with the Jesuits or the Catholic Church. 100% rooted in the belief that individuals can interpret Scripture on their own and if somebody else's interpretation differs, mine is right and they are in error. Hence a split. Right from the beginning with the original "reformers." No help needed from anyone on the outside of Protestantism, internal pride does it all on its own.

One should consider doing a in depth study of it. Yes, there are many interpretations (and we discuss them-and they should be considered-nothing wrong with that) Each of us are responsible for studying for ourselves .... if a teaching is outside or contrary to His Written Word ... then we should dismiss it. (Thy word is truth - not pride)

The Dark Secret of the Jesuit Order: Who are the Jesuits?

Those who do not know history are bound to repeat it.

Truth is not given all at once .... as far as the reformers go .... various truths were discovered as they studied .... they lived up to the light they were given (as they discovered it) ... but not one single one of them were given all light.

 

[narnia59]

One should consider doing a in depth study of it. Yes, there are many interpretations (and we discuss them-and they should be considered-nothing wrong with that) Each of us are responsible for studying for ourselves .... if a teaching is outside or contrary to His Written Word ... then we should dismiss it. (Thy word is truth - not pride)

The Dark Secret of the Jesuit Order: Who are the Jesuits?

Those who do not know history are bound to repeat it.

Truth is not given all at once .... as far as the reformers go .... various truths were discovered as they studied .... they lived up to the light they were given (as they discovered it) ... but not one single one of them were given all light.

How do you propose the first Christians were responsible for studying for themselves?

 

[Wayne Gabler]

How do you propose the first Christians were responsible for studying for themselves?

By reading all the letters that were written. The Gentiles in Acts:10 had the 4 Gospel written in perfect Greek to read, rather than Peter gave them an oral version like Paul did in Acts:28.
That is what 'published' means in the verse below:
Ac:10:37:
That word,
I say,
ye know,
which was published throughout all Judaea,
and began from Galilee,
after the baptism which John preached;
Ac:13:49:
And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

This applies to all of them, the Churches who read one made many copies and passed them around to other believers.
1Th:5:27:
I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.

 

[narnia59]

By reading all the letters that were written. The Gentiles in Acts:10 had the 4 Gospel written in perfect Greek to read, rather than Peter gave them an oral version like Paul did in Acts:28.
That is what 'published' means in the verse below:
Ac:10:37:
That word,
I say,
ye know,
which was published throughout all Judaea,
and began from Galilee,
after the baptism which John preached;
Ac:13:49:
And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

This applies to all of them, the Churches who read one made many copies and passed them around to other believers.
1Th:5:27:
I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.

Your perspective has no sense of history or the reality of the first Christians. In fact, of any Christians until about 200-300 years ago.

Literacy rates were ranged from 3 to 5% of the population. The overwhelming majority of people could not read. That doesn't start to change until the industrial revolution.

Even if they could read, they would not have a copy of the Scriptures available to them to read unless they were very wealthy. That doesn't change until the invention of the printing press. Fortunately, the Church devoted the resources of monks over the centuries who devoted their life's work to copying the Scriptures by hand so that a local congregation could have at least a copy of the Scriptures for the liturgy. These copies weren't "passed around" among believers -- the believers for the most part couldn't read. That is why your text from 1 Thessalonians Paul instructs that his letter be read to all the brethren. The Scriptures were proclaimed to them during the liturgy. That is how they learned, by being read to and taught by the Church. This is why you never see within the Scriptures that somebody "read" and then believed. They "hear" and then believe (Romans 10:14, Luke 8:12-13, John 4:42, John 5:24, Acts 4:4, Acts 13:48, Acts 18:8, Acts 21:20, Romans 10:16, Galatians 3:2, Galatians 3:5, Ephesians 1:13, 1 Thessalonians 2:13).

But the idea that a believer was responsible to take a Bible and learn and study for themselves? Not even an option for the great majority of Christians until the last 200-300 years. That idea is so foreign to the vast majority of Christians over history it should be clear that's not the system Christ established for people to come to faith and learn about him. But for some reason that mythology persists in some Christian circles, regardless that it simply has no basis in history or facts.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

Your perspective has no sense of history or the reality of the first Christians. In fact, of any Christians until about 200-300 years ago.

Maybe the flaw is on your end. I can point out all the parts below and how they are applied to Rome's full 500-year rule over Jerusalem.

I'll let you go first:
Da:8:9-12:
And out of one of them came forth a little horn,
which waxed exceeding great,
toward the south,
and toward the east,
and toward the pleasant land.
And it waxed great,
even to the host of heaven;
and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground,
and stamped upon them.
Yea,
he magnified himself even to the prince of the host,
and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away,
and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression,
and it cast down the truth to the ground;
and it practised,
and prospered.

 

[narnia59]

Maybe the flaw is on your end. I can point out all the parts below and how they are applied to Rome's full 500-year rule over Jerusalem.

I'll let you go first:
Da:8:9-12:
And out of one of them came forth a little horn,
which waxed exceeding great,
toward the south,
and toward the east,
and toward the pleasant land.
And it waxed great,
even to the host of heaven;
and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground,
and stamped upon them.
Yea,
he magnified himself even to the prince of the host,
and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away,
and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression,
and it cast down the truth to the ground;
and it practised,
and prospered.

You did not address the reality that your concept that believers were to take responsibility to study the Scriptures for themselves is a fallacy. This response seems to simply be a deflection from the question at hand

 

[Wayne Gabler]

You did not address the reality that your concept that believers were to take responsibility to study the Scriptures for themselves is a fallacy. This response seems to simply be a deflection from the question at hand

I'm on that.
It is a work in progress, next year will be the start of the 4th decade that the program has been in play.

Ph'p:2:12:
Wherefore,
my beloved,
as ye have always obeyed,
not as in my presence only,
but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
2Tm:3:16:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

Paul didn't have to knock any dust off his boots after I read what he has written in the NT
M'r:6:11:
And whosoever shall not receive you,
nor hear you,
when ye depart thence,
shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them.
Verily I say unto you,
It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment,
than for that city.

 

[narnia59]

I'm on that.
It is a work in progress, next year will be the start of the 4th decade that the program has been in play.

Ph'p:2:12:
Wherefore,
my beloved,
as ye have always obeyed,
not as in my presence only,
but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
2Tm:3:16:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

Paul didn't have to knock any dust off his boots after I read what he has written in the NT
M'r:6:11:
And whosoever shall not receive you,
nor hear you,
when ye depart thence,
shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them.
Verily I say unto you,
It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment,
than for that city.

No, you're simply deflecting in order to not address the reality that your concept that believers were to take responsibility to study the Scriptures for themselves is a fallacy.

 

[Wayne Gabler]

No, you're simply deflecting in order to not address the reality that your concept that believers were to take responsibility to study the Scriptures for themselves is a fallacy.

I should stop that, . . Right?
Maybe putting you on ignore will do the trick. I'll try that and not get back to about if it is working or not, so don't hold your breath waiting.

 

[narnia59]

I should stop that, . . Right?
Maybe putting you on ignore will do the trick. I'll try that and not get back to about if it is working or not, so don't hold your breath waiting.

It's pretty obvious you have no answer; ignore me or not, makes no difference to me.

 

[anetazo]

Revelation chapter 12:5 is mary who had baby Jesus, this is the first advent. Jesus was crucified on a cross. 12:6. This is churches of smyrna and Philadelphia, Gods Elect. The election have holy spirit and gospel armour on. Their not going to worship antichrist near future. The majority are either to lazy to study the bible or listening to traditions of men, misguided preachers. I know what I'm talking about. I'm one of God's Elect. Im a Teacher of my Master Jesus. Ezekiel 20:37. And I will cause you to pass under rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant . At the 7th trump, Jesus is the chief shepherd. Jesus will weed out those who worshipped antichrist and those who didn't worship antichrist. The Election will be in the temple with Jesus during the millennium. The spirtualty dead will be outside the temple, and have no access to Jesus. Those who worshipped antichrist will pay dearly for their sins. 20:38. And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that trangess against Me; PASHA in Hebrew means = trangress. Satan as antichrist will deceive whole world, except for God's election. They wouldn't study the bible or listening to misguided preachers. Antichrist will come 6th trump. Majority are not prepared. The spirtualty dead will suffer the consequences during millennium. At the 7th trump, Jesus rod, His shepherd staff, will weed out the rebels and Election. God's Election will reign with Jesus during the millennium, in the Temple. The majority are outside the temple. I documented this.

 

[Veni]

Tanakh is the woman.

 

[Veni]

Hebrew bible is the woman.
The crown represent the prophet's.
Sun the beginning & moon the end.