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Who is the woman in Revelations 12?

Discussion in 'Mariology & Hagiography' started by mathinspiration, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. mathinspiration

    mathinspiration Active Member

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  2. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Israel. Why are you asking?
     
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  3. ChurchMilitant

    ChurchMilitant A Christian(Traditional Catholic)

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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  4. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    It's Israel. The child is the representation of Christ (the Head) and the Church (His body) coming together.
     
  5. Mountainmike

    Mountainmike Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It can of course be both


    If it is Israel why did our Lord allow scripture to be so obscure and misleading? When it clearly fits Mary - but our reformationist friends would rather it did not, so go through hoops to deny the obvious.

    My answer is ask a child old enough to have heard the gospel. And then when the child says Mary as they inevitably will , And when the reformationist says Israel

    Consider Matthew 11:25
    Jesus declared, "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children

    So The message is to be understood by Children
    What child would say Israel?


     
  6. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

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    Despite the recent September 23rd stuff I still still think the chapter is describing a constellation cluster from beginning to end. Well let me put that a different way. Every set piece that is in that chapter is also in this cluster of constellations centered around Virgo. How to use this information is any mans guess cause nothing happened last year on the 23rd. I simply am unable to shake the uncanny resemblance between everything in this chapter and this constellation cluster. I actively sought out reasons to deny the correlation, but I am still at a loss and continue to see a correlation here.

    Just for example, you have a serpent above virgo, and one below. The dragon in heaven, and the dragon cast down. The one below is in the water constellations and has a cup (flood of water) and a bird (corvus, the wings given to the women) between virgo and the serpent. She is literally surround by two serpents, one above and one below.

    I know a lot of people will despise that, but I cannot shake the resemblance. I have no idea what to do with the sections that extend past the Birth of Christ, nor do I want to do anything with them. All I know is that there appears to be more there for unknown reasons.

    (that is not to say it doesn't have a relevance to Israel, I just think it is multilayered)
     
  7. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    She is Woman.

    She began in the garden her final end in Glory

    The Woman is the mother of all the living. out of her comes Israel prepares holy tabernacle Mary Mother gives birth the child who rules with an iron rod Her daughter is the Church

    Eve---12 Patriarchs Israel--> 12 tribes Mary-->12 Apostles--->Church--> tree of life 12 fruit
     
  8. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    Of course it's Mary too. She gives birth to the child who rules with an iron rod Plus it was her and the Apostles in the upper room when the Church was born at Pentecost.
     
  9. oOKnights TemplarOo

    oOKnights TemplarOo Member

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    It must be remembered that the Apocalypse Of Saint John was written nearly 2,000 years ago. St.John used to say Mass daily on the island of Patmos, before Christ's Revelation. So the Catholic Church is implied heavily. Most of The Apocalypse has already been fulfilled.

    Verse 3-4 "Then a second sign appeared in the sky: there was a huge red dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns, and each of the 7 heads crowned with a coronet. Its tail swept a third of the stars from the sky and hurled them to the ground, and the dragon stopped in front of the woman as she was at the point of giving birth, so that he could eat the child as soon as it was born."

    Who is it that the dragon intends to destroy? 1). Mary's seed = Jesus and 2). the Mother Church's seed = believers in the New Covenant in the blood of Christ. The Church is the virgin Bride of Christ and at the same time the fruitful mother of believers.

    In verse 4 "The dragon stopped in front of the woman" is perhaps better translated "took his stand before the woman." The Greek word is hesteken which means to stand. Satan knows this is the final showdown. And continuing in verse 4 the line "eat the child" is more meaningfully translated "to swallow up the child." In Hebrew the phrase "swallowing up" means to kill or to do away with and is used frequently to express Satan's seed bring suffering and destruction to God's people like Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon who tried to swallow up Jerusalem (Jer. 51:34)

    John symbolically describes the fall of the angel Dawnstar-Lucifer (Isaiah 14:12-15) and the angels who went into rebellion against God with him. John gives us more clarification in verse 9: "the great Dragon, the primeval serpent, known as the devil or Satan, who had led all the world astray, was hurled down to the earth and his angels were hurled down with him." This event is also related by Peter in 2 Pet.2:4: "When angels sinned, God did not spare them: He sent them down into the underworld and consigned them to the dark Abyss to be held there until the Judgement." And Jude 1:5-13 which has relevance for our interpretation of the judgment of God on unbelieving Israel: "I should like to remind you-though you have already learnt it once and for all-that the Lord rescued the nation from Egypt, but afterwards He still destroyed the people who refused to believe Him; and the angels who did not keep to the authority they had, but left their appointed sphere, He has kept in darkness in eternal bonds until the judgement of the great Day(5-6)." ...(v.13) "like wandering stars for whom the gloom of darkness is stored up for ever."

    .....And so on.
    Satan has been bound by Jesus, we now await his release from the Abyss.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
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  10. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    When trying to identify the sign, the woman described in chapter twelve of the book of Revelation. Whatever the identification (Israel, church, Mary), the identity must satisfy the following verses.

    Revelation 12:13-17
    And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

    The dragon persecuted the woman who gave birth to Jesus?

    The woman flew into the wilderness?

    The woman was nourished for a time, times and half a time?

    The woman has other children not just Jesus, these other children are Christians?
     
  11. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    King Herod wanted to kill Jesus, Joseph was told to take Jesus and Mary to Egypt. Herod slaughtered all boys under two years old. That was the dragon Other children is a shoe in for Mary as mother of Christians?
     
  12. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    What is the time, times and half a time?
     
  13. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    The vision had not happened. Mary and Jesus fled to Egypt. Whatever the times is referencing it didn't pertain to this event. Although this could be the very event that is ground base for the vision. It is Jesus in this event. Ground 0 in terms of prophecy
     
  14. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    In terms of Prophecy. In revelation it say's in

    Rev 19-10
    For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

    Most of us know that Jesus is the center of history. Jesus Christ Son of God is the center of heaven.

    What that means is all Prophecy points to Him. Prophecy in terms of time and events, for this time in history, prophetic events have already happened, they're happening in time and they are yet to be complete.
    If there are symbolic references to time in Revelation they could be hidden within the Christ event. Since that doesn't seem to pertain to the events surrounding the life of Jesus. I doubt it's important.

    The book of Revelation is a vision centered on the life of Christ. The center of history. It isn't limited to a particular interval of time in history. It is the entire history of salvation. From the Adam to Judgement

    Jesus revealed the hidden past exercising the prophetic office. Prophecy reveals the hidden past. The nearer the end the more it reveals the beginning. When He spoke of 'all the blood ever shed" that is a prophecy that included Abel. A snippet of hidden past The Mother of all Harlots is revealed as an 'individual woman in the past. That's a hint

    To exclude a person Jesus called 'Woman' as the woman in Rev. 12 is extremely errant. Especially if you don't know why Jesus called her that. Not to mention her major role is center of history like Jesus. The woman in Rev, 12 are two individuals and two peoples. All are one in the way the two women are one. Eve at the beginning and Mary at the end. We have been in the end times since Jesus. If questions about what I've written arise in your mind I( will be happy to answer them. Your Brother in Christ.
     
  15. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    The Woman and her children.



    Eve---12 Patriarchs Israel--> 12 tribes Mary-->12 Apostles--->Church--> tree of life 12 fruit
     
  16. Denadii

    Denadii Well-Known Member

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    So...Israel gives birth to a 'son' What is that?
     
  17. Denadii

    Denadii Well-Known Member

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    If you read the whole chapter.....The woman is the church who gives birth to the bride...Who is caught up and the rest of the church has to flee from the antichrist. Study and you will find that not all the born again church is the bride...Only those who are ready.
     
  18. oOKnights TemplarOo

    oOKnights TemplarOo Member

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    The Church is the Bride of Christ. Jesus is the Groom. Revelation 19:8, "His Bride is ready." Paul wrote in Ephesians 5:25-27 of Christ's sacrifice on the cross as the redemption of the Bride: "...Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words, so that when he took the church to himself she would be glorious, with no speck or wrinkle or anything like that, but holy and faultless." 2Cor 11:2-3 "The jealousy that I feel for you is, you see, God's own jealousy: I gave you all in marriage to a single husband, a virgin pure for presentation to Christ."

    Matthew 25:1-13 ~ The Parable of the Ten Virgins
    1 "Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones, when taking their lamps, brought no oil with them, 4 but the wise brought flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 Since the bridegroom was long delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6 At midnight, there was a cry, Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!' 7 Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' 9 But the wise ones replied, No, for there may not be enough for us and you. Go instead to the merchants and buy some for yourselves.' 10 While they went off to buy it, the bridegroom came and those who were ready went into the wedding feast with him. Then the door was locked. 11 Afterwards the other virgins came and said, Lord, Lord, open the door for us! 12 But he said in reply, amen, I say to you, I do not know you.' 13 Therefore, stay awake, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

    The virgins are waiting for the bridegroom to take them to the marriage feast. It is the Christian tradition that Christ is the Bridegroom of His Church who is His faithful and virginal Bride (Mt 9:15; Jn 3:29; 2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:21-33; Rev 21:2, 9 and 22:17).

    • The virgins are the Bride of Christ, the Christian communities of the Church
    • The oil lamps represent God the Holy Spirit
    • The wedding banquet is the heavenly wedding banquet of the Lamb and His Bride The virgins represent the Christian communities waiting for the Bridegroom, who is Jesus, to take them to the wedding feast, which is the heavenly marriage supper of the Lamb: "Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory. For the wedding day of the Lamb has come, his bride has made herself ready. She was allowed to wear a bright, clean linen garment."(The linen represents the righteous deeds of the holy ones.) Then the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who have been called to the wedding feast of the Lamb" (Rev 19:7-9).

    In the parable, all the virgins have oil lamps which they must keep burning as they await the coming of the Bridegroom. Speaking of the Holy Spirit, Jesus said "I came to cast fire upon the earth and would that it were already kindled!" (Lk 12:49). On Pentecost, God the Holy Spirit possessed the New Covenant community praying in the Upper Room in the form of tongues of fire (Acts 2:3-4), and St. Paul warns Christians "do not quench the Spirit" (1 Thes 5:19)

    Five virgins, half the Christian communities, are prudent and watchful. They are the Christian communities or individual Christians who are vigilant in keeping their lives right with God in preparation for the Parousia of the Christ. But only half the virgins/Christian communities are prepared for the coming of the bridegroom "the ill-prepared virgins miss the coming of the bridegroom and cannot enter the wedding feast.


     
  19. Denadii

    Denadii Well-Known Member

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    Actually...The child is the One New Man mentioned in Ephesians 2:15 the One New Man is the bride of Christ
     
  20. oOKnights TemplarOo

    oOKnights TemplarOo Member

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    But Eph. 2:11-16 – this section explains Paul’s reference to “works” which relates to following the Jewish legal ordinances. “works of law” (Mosaic law/legal payment).
     
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