Just The Facts said:
How was Joshua cut off? and if it were Zerubabbel, how was he cut off. And also who destroyed Jerusalem in the 5th century B.C.? Answer these and I will give you my date.
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Who is the "he" in Daniel 9:27?
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How was Joshua cut off? and if it were Zerubabbel, how was he cut off. And also who destroyed Jerusalem in the 5th century B.C.? Answer these and I will give you my date.
Hi
The line of priest kings was cut off at the end of the 70 weeks of Years when herod an Arab was made king of Judea splitting the office of king and high priests and as Jesus told the Priests they Themselves would be left with Nothing.
The verse does not say ...but not for himself.............it says .. and shall have nothing,
[26] And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.
33: Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? ................................................38: Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
This is the Truth of this prophecy. 490 years after the decree to rebuild this line of priests Kings was cut off and had nothing and the prnce of the people to come destroyed the city.
The line of priest kings was cut off at the end of the 70 weeks of Years when herod an Arab was made king of Judea splitting the office of king and high priests and as Jesus told the Priests they Themselves would be left with Nothing.
The verse does not say ...but not for himself.............it says .. and shall have nothing,
[26] And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed.
33: Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? ................................................38: Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
This is the Truth of this prophecy. 490 years after the decree to rebuild this line of priests Kings was cut off and had nothing and the prnce of the people to come destroyed the city.
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Philip - it isn't really hard. Most people prior to 1830 knew that the "he" in Daniel 9:27 was Jesus Christ. It was only with the advent of dispensationalism and John Nelson Darby this simple to understand Messianic prophecy has been turned upside down into something it isn't. The prophecy is limited to 490 years (70 weeks). What does scripture say about "the covenant"? We know it is the same covenant as Daniel 9:4, which was the covenant of God's people, not a "peace treaty" with some foreign enemy. Also, according to scripture, not the newest prophecy book, the only one who confirmed the covenant was Jesus Christ - Galatians 3:17. Jesus also confirmed the promises made to the fathers - Romans 15:8. Also, if the 70 weeks are not complete, then Jesus didn't fulfill any of Daniel 9:24, which means the new testament is a sham (because the new testament declares ALL 6 of those events were fulfilled by Christ). The bible declares plainly that Jesus made the temple system desolate - Matthew 23:38. It is also interesting that exactly 69 prophetic weeks after the decree to restore Jerusalem was given (by Cyrus - Ezra 1:1-2 in 456 BC) is the year 26 AD when Jesus just "happened" to be baptized by John beginning his ministry. It also seems to be a great "coincidence" that exactly 3.5 years (midst of the week) after Jesus began his ministry, that he was crucified, causing the sacrifices and oblations to cease (in the hebrew this can simply mean to cause to fail). It also happens to be another "coincidence" that exactly 3.5 years after Jesus was crucified, that the gospel went to the gentiles because the 70 weeks were over (33 ad). Read what happened prior to this taking the gospel to the gentiles, the condemnation of national Israel's rejection of the new covenant after 7 years of preaching only to them. God kept his part of the bargain and gave national Israel 7 years in the new covenant which they ended up rejecting. Also, I find it interesting that Daniel doesn't mention : the antichrist, the great tribulation, the peace treaty with the arabs, a 2000 year gap, etc in ANY of Daniel 9:24-27. So, why do these people have to insert that nonsense where it doesn't belong? Not one scripture says antichrist confirms any covenant. Not one scripture says there is a "7 year tribulation". Not one scripture says the 70 weeks have 2000 years of a gap (the time was DETERMINED). If there is a gap in the prophecy, and Daniel didn't mention it, then Daniel must be considered a false prophet via Deuteronomy 18. Also, "the people of the prince who shall come" is ONE SUBJECT. Ask any 1st grader if you are to separate an adjective from a noun in the same sentence by 2000 or more years sometime. LOL. Don't fall for these manmade jewish fables we are warned to not give heed to (Titus 1:14). Hope this helps, God bless
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Hi
It really isn't hard the earliest of Church fathers new what this meant it wasn't till Jerome decided it was Jesus and added and took away from the words of the prophets that people started to get lost.
The Six things that are spoken of by amill teachers are an illusion .....did Jesus Finnish the Transgression of the Jews............did he put an end to sin.
No all these things are an illusion that even after they changed the words of the prophets still did not make any sense.
It really isn't hard the earliest of Church fathers new what this meant it wasn't till Jerome decided it was Jesus and added and took away from the words of the prophets that people started to get lost.
The Six things that are spoken of by amill teachers are an illusion .....did Jesus Finnish the Transgression of the Jews............did he put an end to sin.
No all these things are an illusion that even after they changed the words of the prophets still did not make any sense.
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Dee Dee Warren
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Driver said:
Yep no antichrist to be found in that passage. It is serious business to be attributing the work of Christ to the antichrist.
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Hi
I also agree no Ac in this prophecy...........but no Messiah either............well unless you want to add to the words of God.
I also agree no Ac in this prophecy...........but no Messiah either............well unless you want to add to the words of God.
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D
Driver
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Since Jesus refers to this verse in the Olivet Discourse, this makes it easy to pinpoint timewise. He says the abomination of desolation would be part of "all these things" that would happen in "this generation", the generation of the disciples to whom He was speaking.
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Hi
Please allow me to demonstrate to all just how flawed this is.
quote
69 prophetic weeks after the decree to restore Jerusalem was given (by Cyrus - Ezra 1:1-2 in 456 BC) is the year 26 AD when Jesus just "happened" to be baptized by John beginning his ministry.
End Quote
Cyrus's decree was in 538 BC he was dead and Gone by 456 BC .So I will assume you meant Artaxerxes not Cyrus.
this would be your first doctrine of men because it is Clear that it was Cyrus that gave the Decree not Artaxerxes and that was in 538BC
Ezra 1:1: Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,2: Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.
The only order Artaxerxes ever gave was for the Building to continue not to start and yes Cyruss decree was to build the city to and the jews Were building the city.
11: This is the copy of the letter that they sent unto him, even unto Artaxerxes the king; Thy servants the men on this side the river, and at such a time. 12: Be it known unto the king, that the Jews which came up from thee to us are come unto Jerusalem, building the rebellious and the bad city, and have set up the walls thereof, and joined the foundations.13: Be it known now unto the king, that, if this city be builded, and the walls set up again, then will they not pay toll, tribute, and custom, and so thou shalt endamage the revenue of the kings.
However to demonstrate that even with this non decree claimed as a decree the times still do not work
69 weeks is 483 years now 456 down to 0 = 456 years .there is no 0 years so 25 years to 26AD and we get 456+25=481.........oooooppppssssss that does not add up to 483 years ..does it
Not only that the date of this nondecree of Artaxerxes has been changed NO LESS THEN THREE TIMES since this lie was first thought up............the first examples of teachers pushing this lie have that decree at 453BC......But that was way back when people thought Jesus was actually born in year 1 .........well we know that is not true So they move the date of the nondecree to match the changing date of Jesus birth.
This is a Doctrine of Men from beginning to end ..they change words sentences and then alter the start date over and over again .Please.................... this doctrine is a big fat lie.
I guess it is back to the date drawing board yet again..........
Please allow me to demonstrate to all just how flawed this is.
quote
69 prophetic weeks after the decree to restore Jerusalem was given (by Cyrus - Ezra 1:1-2 in 456 BC) is the year 26 AD when Jesus just "happened" to be baptized by John beginning his ministry.
End Quote
Cyrus's decree was in 538 BC he was dead and Gone by 456 BC .So I will assume you meant Artaxerxes not Cyrus.
this would be your first doctrine of men because it is Clear that it was Cyrus that gave the Decree not Artaxerxes and that was in 538BC
Ezra 1:1: Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,2: Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.
The only order Artaxerxes ever gave was for the Building to continue not to start and yes Cyruss decree was to build the city to and the jews Were building the city.
11: This is the copy of the letter that they sent unto him, even unto Artaxerxes the king; Thy servants the men on this side the river, and at such a time. 12: Be it known unto the king, that the Jews which came up from thee to us are come unto Jerusalem, building the rebellious and the bad city, and have set up the walls thereof, and joined the foundations.13: Be it known now unto the king, that, if this city be builded, and the walls set up again, then will they not pay toll, tribute, and custom, and so thou shalt endamage the revenue of the kings.
However to demonstrate that even with this non decree claimed as a decree the times still do not work
69 weeks is 483 years now 456 down to 0 = 456 years .there is no 0 years so 25 years to 26AD and we get 456+25=481.........oooooppppssssss that does not add up to 483 years ..does it
Not only that the date of this nondecree of Artaxerxes has been changed NO LESS THEN THREE TIMES since this lie was first thought up............the first examples of teachers pushing this lie have that decree at 453BC......But that was way back when people thought Jesus was actually born in year 1 .........well we know that is not true So they move the date of the nondecree to match the changing date of Jesus birth.
This is a Doctrine of Men from beginning to end ..they change words sentences and then alter the start date over and over again .Please.................... this doctrine is a big fat lie.
I guess it is back to the date drawing board yet again..........
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Don't you mean, 'the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city'? How did Herod's people destroy Jerusalem?Just The Facts said:
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Hi Barraco
Seven weeks....................an anointed one a Prince ie:Joshua is made priest King by God
62 Weeks..................... this line of priest Kings rules Jerusalem but in troubled times.
One Week is separated out this is the 7 year Macabee War . it is added into the 69 weeks to make 70 weeks and is the Start of MANY desolations and war that will end with the "HE" The king of the north .The Prince of the people to come destroying the city and the sanctuary.
From the Decree of Cyrus in 538 BC - 490 years (70 weeks) = 48 BC...........In 48 BC the line of priest kings was cut off as The Romans make Herod King. This ends the 490 year rule of the priest Kings.
Look at the prophecy it is about Jerusalem.......... that is the question asked by Daniel. He wants to know when the Promise to Jacob will be fulfilled. The Jews are in captivity and think this promise is lost. Look what the Jews are saying.
Jer:3324: Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.25: Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;26: Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
So Daniel asks on Behalf of his people.
[2] in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.
This prophecy is about the Jews and Jerusalem not the time of the End.
Daniel thinks the 70 Years is the end of the punishment of the Jews ..............he wants to know when messiah will come and the Jews share of the promise to Jacob and David will be fulfilled.
The 70 years of Jeremiah is a year for each Jubilee missed ......................But Daniel has forgotten the SEVEN fold punishment of the curse of Leviticus 26:
Lev 26:27: And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28: Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
The curse demands a seven fold punishment if the Jews do not repent.............during the 70 Years.........the do not repent AS A PEOPLE...........and so the seven fold curse comes upon them...........70 x 7 = 490 years
It will be 490 years of more punishment......................490 years TO finish the Transgression and atone for the iniquity of the Jewish people and their city. At the end of the 490 years the promise to Jacob that Jesus will be born of his blood will be fulfilled.
[24] "Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy one.
That is why EVERYONE was waiting for their Messiah ..That is why Herod and the priests KNEW that Christ was coming because this 490 years had ended in 48 BC
Matt 2:3: When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. 4: And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
Seven weeks....................an anointed one a Prince ie:Joshua is made priest King by God
62 Weeks..................... this line of priest Kings rules Jerusalem but in troubled times.
One Week is separated out this is the 7 year Macabee War . it is added into the 69 weeks to make 70 weeks and is the Start of MANY desolations and war that will end with the "HE" The king of the north .The Prince of the people to come destroying the city and the sanctuary.
From the Decree of Cyrus in 538 BC - 490 years (70 weeks) = 48 BC...........In 48 BC the line of priest kings was cut off as The Romans make Herod King. This ends the 490 year rule of the priest Kings.
Look at the prophecy it is about Jerusalem.......... that is the question asked by Daniel. He wants to know when the Promise to Jacob will be fulfilled. The Jews are in captivity and think this promise is lost. Look what the Jews are saying.
Jer:3324: Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.25: Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;26: Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
So Daniel asks on Behalf of his people.
[2] in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years which, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.
This prophecy is about the Jews and Jerusalem not the time of the End.
Daniel thinks the 70 Years is the end of the punishment of the Jews ..............he wants to know when messiah will come and the Jews share of the promise to Jacob and David will be fulfilled.
The 70 years of Jeremiah is a year for each Jubilee missed ......................But Daniel has forgotten the SEVEN fold punishment of the curse of Leviticus 26:
Lev 26:27: And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28: Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
The curse demands a seven fold punishment if the Jews do not repent.............during the 70 Years.........the do not repent AS A PEOPLE...........and so the seven fold curse comes upon them...........70 x 7 = 490 years
It will be 490 years of more punishment......................490 years TO finish the Transgression and atone for the iniquity of the Jewish people and their city. At the end of the 490 years the promise to Jacob that Jesus will be born of his blood will be fulfilled.
[24] "Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy one.
That is why EVERYONE was waiting for their Messiah ..That is why Herod and the priests KNEW that Christ was coming because this 490 years had ended in 48 BC
Matt 2:3: When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. 4: And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
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If the "he" is referring to Christ, what does "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate" mean?
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Hi Phillip
that is not a very good translation
Here is RSV
9:[27] And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."
The wing of Abomination is a reference to the fact that the priests had allowed The king of the north's Statue to be placed in the wing of the temple. starting in 168 BC it was Zesus statue in the temple.
that is not a very good translation
Here is RSV
9:[27] And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."
The wing of Abomination is a reference to the fact that the priests had allowed The king of the north's Statue to be placed in the wing of the temple. starting in 168 BC it was Zesus statue in the temple.
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That was easily brushed off!! On what basis do you say that the NIV is superior to the KJV?
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Hi
No it is the RSV ...the NIV is far to interpretive. The KJV is not bad over all but the prophetic sections have been altered by the Interpreter
On the Basis of actual text comparison.
No it is the RSV ...the NIV is far to interpretive. The KJV is not bad over all but the prophetic sections have been altered by the Interpreter
On the Basis of actual text comparison.
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Philip dT said:
Philip - the abomination was the sacrifices themselves, because they became the very thing God hates. Jesus made them desolate by making their temple desolate (Matthew 23:38).
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