Who is Responsible for Killing Jesus?

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

This is why I suggested an improved question addressing what caused Jesus to stop breathing (physically die). This seems to be what you are really after. However, this appears to be a few collective events. Even before Jesus took the cross he was beaten and then later severely scourged. Historically, the internal and external bleeding from such a brutal scourging was enough to kill people. Would Jesus have been able to survive (without miraculous intervention) for much longer than he did if he wasn't also crucified? This isn't even talking about the risk of infections. What we do know is that he physically died before the others that were crucified with him. It seems safe to say this was most likely somehow related to this earlier trauma compounded with the additional blood loss from his crucifixion.

We must then look at how people typically die on crosses. At some point they become too weak to lift their own bodies to properly breath. This weakness is due to loss of blood and physical exhaustion. When this happens, asphyxiation occurs. So, what caused Jesus to stop breathing? Literally, his own body weight.

There's a couple of things noted there 1) that His abuse was that of humiliation intent on mockery of His 'sin' ie: calling Himself God (according to the Jew's accusation thereby placing Him in opposition to Ceasar) I think it's self evident what that torture probably entailed, which would more than likely included rape. Communists in China when imprisoning Christians include that as a first means of beating them down. Not just that but also to remove the stigma of purity from them. 2) asphyxiation was what happened when they broke the legs of the others. His death was probably due to a previous weakened condition because the body's first instinct is survival.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

How could it all work out that way without God making people into puppets?

There is a difference between knowing something is going to happen, and forcing it to happen.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We must then look at how people typically die on crosses.

Big mistake,
very common.
YHWH'S WORD is TRUTH.

Why we can look at in the physical world is under , not over, His Word.

HIS WORD is TRUTH.

Nothing can change HIS WORD.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

This is why I suggested an improved question addressing what caused Jesus to stop breathing (physically die). This seems to be what you are really after. However, this appears to be a few collective events. Even before Jesus took the cross he was beaten and then later severely scourged. Historically, the internal and external bleeding from such a brutal scourging was enough to kill people. Would Jesus have been able to survive (without miraculous intervention) for much longer than he did if he wasn't also crucified? This isn't even talking about the risk of infections. What we do know is that he physically died before the others that were crucified with him. It seems safe to say this was most likely somehow related to this earlier trauma compounded with the additional blood loss from his crucifixion.

We must then look at how people typically die on crosses. At some point they become too weak to lift their own bodies to properly breath. This weakness is due to loss of blood and physical exhaustion. When this happens, asphyxiation occurs. So, what caused Jesus to stop breathing? Literally, his own body weight.

Thanks. I actually am after the who, not the what.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

There is a difference between knowing something is going to happen, and forcing it to happen.

So, God had to make a plan to work around what humans would do? We are the main actors, and His plan has to fit in?

 

[Hammster]

There is a difference between knowing something is going to happen, and forcing it to happen.

So God's only involvement was that He didn't stop it?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There is a difference between knowing something is going to happen, and forcing it to happen.

Who Says, in His Word,
that He orchestrates (makes to work) (causes) EVERYTHING
to work together for the good
of (all) those who LOVE HIM,
AND are called according to HIS PURPOSE ?

He cannot lie.

He always guards His Word to accomplish it, exactly as He Says.

 

[Apex]

Thanks. I actually am after the who, not the what.

A bullied teenager commits suicide by gun. Who killed him? The bullies that made him want to pull the trigger? His parents for not noticing he needed psychiatric help? His uncle for not locking his gun in a safe? The teenager, himself, for pulling the trigger?

You know that there isn't a single person who killed Jesus. The scourger is equally to blame as Pilate, the Jewish leaders, the executioner, or even God is. What are your really looking for then?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So God's only involvement was that He didn't stop it?

She didn't mean that, hope you know....

He planned it completely, before creating the world or any people or life on earth,
and He wrote it in His Word, centuries before it was all fulfilled as He Says, Perfectly, when Jesus was crucified....

Every bit, every particle, of His Word, Perfectly Fulfilled in Christ Crucified ....

Written in His Word in great detail.... as He Breathed His Word through those He chose...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We are the main actors

Ooops, Major Faux Pas ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

A bullied teenager commits suicide by gun. Who killed him? The bullies that made him want to pull the trigger?

Naughty naughty.... major corruption of thought here... trying to put the way of man's thinking over a facetious situation and take responsibility away from the one person responsible, as if they could ever be vindicated....

 

[Hammster]

She didn't mean that, hope you know....

He planned it completely, before creating the world or any people or life on earth,
and He wrote it in His Word, centuries before it was all fulfilled as He Says, Perfectly, when Jesus was crucified....

Every bit, every particle, of His Word, Perfectly Fulfilled in Christ Crucified ....

Written in His Word in great detail.... as He Breathed His Word through those He chose...

I didn't know you read minds.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I didn't know you read minds.

Follow the progression (1) we (ekklesia immersed in Yeshua's Name) have the mind of Christ (2) no one knows the mind of a man other than that man and YHWH (3) YHWH does whatever He Pleases (not subject to any man (4) YHWH causes all things to work out for good for those who love Him, who are called according to His Purpose. (5) The Atonement by Jesus' Blood is entirely without merit on our part, freely and without measure sheer grace from the Father in heaven. (no way anyone could earn nor deserve the LIFE HE GRANTS )

 

[JackRT]

Thanks. I actually am after the who, not the what.

Jesus was executed by the Roman authorities at the behest of the Jewish religious authorities. The Jewish people themselves had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

 

[Apex]

Naughty naughty.... major corruption of thought here... trying to put the way of man's thinking over a facetious situation and take responsibility away from the one person responsible, as if they could ever be vindicated....

There is no corruption of thought here. It showcases how this thread is all one big game of musical chairs. Everyone knows what everyone else is saying. Can we stop pretending?

 

[Hammster]

Follow the progression (1) we (ekklesia immersed in Yeshua's Name) have the mind of Christ (2) no one knows the mind of a man other than that man and YHWH (3) YHWH does whatever He Pleases (not subject to any man (4) YHWH causes all things to work out for good for those who love Him, who are called according to His Purpose. (5) The Atonement by Jesus' Blood is entirely without merit on our part, freely and without measure sheer grace from the Father in heaven. (no way anyone could earn nor deserve the LIFE HE GRANTS )

If no one knows the mind of man except God, then you should pretend to read another member's mind.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If no one knows the mind of man except God, then you should pretend to read another member's mind.

oops.... you missed a few steps prominent in YHWH'S WORD.

Maybe later then...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There is no corruption of thought here. It showcases how this thread is all one big game of musical chairs. Everyone knows what everyone else is saying. Can we stop pretending?

Total corruption of thought illustrated in the suicide projection you posted,
common in today's society, but altogether wrong.....

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Total corruption of thought illustrated in the suicide projection you posted,
common in today's society, but altogether wrong.....

We'll see how that one plays out ...

 

[jax5434]

No Roman guard pounded nails through His hands and feet?

He did die. He was human as well, right?

Do you think it could have been done against his will?