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Featured Who is Responsible for Killing Jesus?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by jimmyjimmy, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    I could have stopped it from happening look at my post 97
     
  2. Victory-N-Christ

    Victory-N-Christ God:Mighty -N-Power!!

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    Okay. Who did it?
    1: God (The Father) didn't intervene to stop it.
    2:The Jewish leaders instigated it.
    3:Judas set it up.
    4: The Roman soldiers nailed Him to the cross after abusing Him.
    5:Me?? I wasn't there.
    Okay...so the person or people who actually handled the murder weapon did the crime. And the only ones handling the murder weapons or the weapons that contributed to Jesus death were of course the Roman soldiers.
    Now..any halfway intelligent jury would convict on this evidence alone.
    Peace.
     
  3. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    No.
     
  4. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    God would have known from the beginning of time, humans in the Garden of Eden scenario would not fulfill their earthly objective and sin would be necessary for man to fulfill his earthly objective. Those are pretty obvious to the open observer.

    As we know everything is working together for those that “Love” God, so Christ going to the cross is part of that everything. God’s Love would compel God to do all He can to help willing individuals fulfill their earthly objective, which includes the cross for Christ.

    From the Garden pray we Know Christ personally did not want to go to the cross and out of empathy for Christ God personally would not want Christ to go to the cross.

    We know an all-powerful God does not need help to forgive, so Jesus is not going to the cross to “help” God to forgive anyone.

    The cross is needed to help man with his objective.

    It provides the only way humans can be fairly and justly disciplined for their sins without being physically killed, we can be crucified with Christ.
     
  5. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

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    I disagree with that assessment. How do you see it?
     
  6. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    Paul said he was crucified with Christ, so should I feel that way?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  7. “Paisios”

    “Paisios” Sinner Supporter

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    I've never considered the degrees of guilt...just that we are all guilty.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    God gave His son to die for our sins - to provide the atoning substitutionary sacrifice - payment for sin.

    John 19:11 Jesus said to Pilate "the one who delivered Me up to you - has the greater sin" (speaking of the Jewish leaders)

    Acts 2 Peter said to the Jews
    23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
    36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    Acts 3 Peter accuses the Jews again "
    13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
    14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
    15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

    Acts 4 Peter remind them again - that they did it - "10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole."

    Acts 5 the Jewish leaders admit that the Apostles are accusing them of murder
    28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.

    Matt 16

    21 From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day.

    No Bible writer ever mentions anyone else as "killed Jesus".

    Still it is not as though it was a "surprise" -- God did not "need" Jews to kill Christ. He would have died for our sins in Gethsemane at some point anyway. But the Jews insisted that THEY be involved in that death personally.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  9. jax5434

    jax5434 Member

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    No argument from me on that. Jesus was crucified by Roman Soldiers on the order of Pilate and instigated at least in part by the Sanhedrin. I am simply saying that we need to remember that this could not have happened unless it was within the will of God

    Matthew 26:53-54

    53 Or do you think that I cannot call upon my Father, and he would put at my disposal at once more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then would the scriptures be fulfilled that it must happen in this way?”

    In the end, whatever the proximate causes of Jesus death, it must have happened that way. Assigning blame serves no good purpose.
     
  10. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    The Sanhedrin had absolutely nothing to do with it. It was the High Priest and his cronies. See my post #87 in this thread.
     
  11. jax5434

    jax5434 Member

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    Matthew 26:57-67 [Full Chapter]
    [ Jesus Before the Sanhedrin ] Now those who had arrested Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders had gathered. But Peter was following him from a distance, as far as the courtyard of the high priest. And he went inside and was sitting with the officers to see the outcome. Now the chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false testimony against Jesus in order that they could put him to death
     
  12. bling

    bling Regular Member Supporter

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    I am to blame.
     
  13. jax5434

    jax5434 Member

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    Indeed you are, as am I, as are we all. Therefore why try to assign blame to any particular group or groups?
     
  14. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    This took place in the middle of the night in the courtyard of the High Priest. The Sanhedrin was forbidden to meet at night and was only to meet in the "Chamber of Hewn Stone" on Temple Mount. I have no doubt that the meeting took place or that some of his Sadducee cronies (that might or might not have been members of the Sanhedrin) were present. Matthew wrote some 50 years after the crucifixion and after the destruction of the Temple. See post #87 in this thread.
     
  15. Seymore Bell

    Seymore Bell New Member Supporter

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    f) Our sin
     
  16. Walsinghsm Way

    Walsinghsm Way New Member

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    Baruch Hashem!
    You asked
    F) our sin-corrupted na tire (ok, not so much a who as a what, but since son many of us identity wit our sin, or might as well be our sin which brought Christ to the Cross)

    G) Jesus willingly laid down his life us in obedience to the Father's Will , so no one took it from him.

    I suppose what you're really looking for is the "best" answer , as there really is no one answer to your question. Let me explain.

    The Jewish leaders instigated the Romans to put Him to death (and because a claim of kingship or Messiah up -no matter how you want to parse the term(s)- was automatically a case of treason as the Romans would truck no rival sovereignty within their borders, the Romans would be in their rights to do so) so making them the formal cause.

    The Roman guards may have been the efficient cause of His death, as that was their job (and no doubt had seen many messiahs -so-called- put to death) so blameless they are not. Then again they were pagans who did not know the Lord of Glory.

    The most Judas can be accused of is of betraying, or handing over Jesus to the authorities -ratting him out speak.

    Thr Father sent His Son to save the world, but it was the Son who laid down his life, no one took it from Him, as even He Himself said in the Gospel (as also He had the power to take it up again) which makes Himself the efficient cause

    As for Me -well, I/you/me are the final cause -the purpose for which He died so in that sense yes we all participants in the death of the Sinless One.

    *Granted I could b have mixed up formal and efficient causes so... take this explanation with a grain of intellectual salt.
     
  17. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    No one.. Hes not dead..

    yet.. lets add to this.. every time we sin.. we added a strip to Him.. for HE died for ALL your sins.
     
  18. flyboy2610

    flyboy2610 Loveably weird.

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    I did it. I killed him. But he has forgiven me for it.
     
  19. Christodoulos

    Christodoulos Member

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    ALL of the human race!
     
  20. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    If you could have stopped it from happening then why didn't you??
     
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