Who is Melchizedek

[The Liturgist]

I will say it seems more likely that Melchizedek was Christ our True God in a pre-incarnate appearance than Shem. Although we do have a genealogy for the matrilineal ancestors of Christ, and also Patrilineally, since He is God the Son, begotten of the Father before all ages. However, to someone at the time of St. Abraham He would have been a mystery in that respect, a divine man from the future.

That said, Hebrews was written in the first century, most likely by St. Paul, or perhaps St. Luke the Evangelist based on a homily of Paul based on the quality of the writing (although it is not certain, I prefer to accept a Pauline identification, even if someone else wrote it from his speech, based on that ancient attribution, disputed though it was even in antiquity).

 

[Jan001]

LOTS of things are impossible for God. He cannot lie, cheat, steal and so on. He is always faithful and true.

God is love. He cannot go against his own nature!

I actually posted good things that would have been impossible to do without God's intervention.

 

[Jan001]

That's because you don't accept the verse in Hebrews which says that Melchizedek is without genealogy.

Perhaps you do not understand that the Jews used idioms and other figures of speech that are not easily understood by people who live in a different culture 2000 years removed.

Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

It probably means that Melchizedek's lineage was not known by this first-century author. The author of this Book of Hebrews is not known either. It is not Paul. Paul always began his letters with his own name.

2 Thessalonians 3:17 I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand. This is the mark in every letter of mine; it is the way I write.

Of course, first-century Jewish Christians understood that Melchizedek resembled the Son of Man (Jesus Christ) because Jesus Christ also offered bread and wine. Jesus Christ, like Melchizedek, is also King and Priest (Jesus Christ is actually King and High Priest forever).

Genesis 14:18 And King Melchizedek of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was priest of God Most High.

Sometime after the flood, Melchizedek became the king of Canaan (Israel) and he resided in Salem (Jerusalem). Jesus is the last king of Israel/Judah (House of David) and he is King over all people. Melchizedek was perhaps the first priest of Salem (Jerusalem). Jesus is High Priest over all people forever. Genesis 9:26-28

 

[Strong in Him]

Perhaps you do not understand that the Jews used idioms and other figures of speech that are not easily understood by people who live in a different culture 2000 years removed.

Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

It probably means that Melchizedek's lineage was not known by this first-century author.

Yes. The author of Genesis didn't know it either - and neither do we.

 

[Diamond72]

I actually posted good things that would have been impossible to do without God's intervention.

The human mind requires a comparison. For all that God is, there is the opposite that He is not. So we know God is good.

 

[Diamond72]

Melchizedek

Melchizedek is a fascinating figure in the Bible, known for his unique dual role as both a king and a priest. He is introduced in Genesis 14:18-20 as the king of Salem (often identified with Jerusalem) and a priest of God Most High2. This dual role is quite rare in biblical tradition, as kingship represents governance while priesthood reflects intercession with God.

Melchizedek's significance is further highlighted in the New Testament, particularly in the Book of Hebrews, where he is compared to Jesus Christ

 

[Jan001]

Yes. The author of Genesis didn't know it either - and neither do we.

The author of Genesis did not specify Melchizedek's genealogy. We don't know if the author knew what it was. He did not tell us if he knew or if he didn't know.

This is why we are speculating.

 

[Apple Sky]

This is why we are speculating.

Which is fun to do as long as we don't change the words of the Bible.

 

[Jan001]

Which is fun to do as long as we don't change the words of the Bible.

I didn't change the words. I gave my opinion on what the words meant.


Here is a first-century idiom used by the early Christians:

Romans 10:13 Indeed, “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

This does not mean that all you have to do is simply call out Jesus' name and then you are saved.

This actually refers to the "calling on the name of the Lord" (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) as Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:18-20:

Then Jesus approached them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the world.”

Acts 22:16 And now, what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name.’

John 3:5 Jesus said, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

 

[Strong in Him]

The author of Genesis did not specify Melchizedek's genealogy. We don't know if the author knew what it was. He did not tell us if he knew or if he didn't know.

This is why we are speculating.

But we know Shem's genealogy.
To be honest, I'm not even sure why I'm in this discussion. We can't argue from silence and I'm not sure what we're trying to prove anyway.

I think I'll leave you to it.

 

[Jan001]

But we know Shem's genealogy.
To be honest, I'm not even sure why I'm in this discussion. We can't argue from silence and I'm not sure what we're trying to prove anyway.

I think I'll leave you to it.

We don't know if Shem was later given the name Melchizedek.

We do know that Abram was renamed Abraham, Sarai was renamed Sarah, and Jacob was renamed Israel.

 

[Apple Sky]

But we know Shem's genealogy.
To be honest, I'm not even sure why I'm in this discussion. We can't argue from silence and I'm not sure what we're trying to prove anyway.

I think I'll leave you to it.

Maybe I should have titled this thread 'Who isn't Melchizedek'

 

[Apple Sky]

We don't know if Shem was later given the name Melchizedek.

We do know that Abram was renamed Abraham, Sarai was renamed Sarah, and Jacob was renamed Israel.

According to the story in the Opening post Noah had to keep Melchizedek to carry on the bloodline so maybe Noah changed Melchizedek name to Shem.

Noah had a bother called 'Nir', Nir had a wife called 'Sopanim' who became pregnant in her old age.
She is embarrassed by this pregnancy and hides herself until the child is due. When Nir discovers she is pregnant he rebukes her and intends to send her away because she has disgraced him, but instead she falls dead at his feet.

Noah discovers this and tells Nir that the Lord has “covered up our scandal.” They bury Sopanim in a black shroud in a secret grave.
However the child was not dead and came out of the dead mother as a fully developed child. This terrifies Nir and Noah, but since the child is “glorious in appearance” they realize the Lord is renewing the priesthood in their bloodline. They name the child 'Melchizedek'.

The name Shem means Renown, fame.
Origin:Hebrew. Meaning:Name; Renown, fame. Shem is a boy's name of Hebrew origin that means "name" and "fame" or “renown.” Some even suggest it embodies a conscious understanding of all of creation.

 

[The Liturgist]

Melchizedek is a fascinating figure in the Bible, known for his unique dual role as both a king and a priest.

There have been, to be fair, hieratic kings in other cultures.

 

[Jan001]

According to the story in the Opening post Noah had to keep Melchizedek to carry on the bloodline so maybe Noah changed Melchizedek name to Shem.

The name Shem means Renown, fame.
Origin:Hebrew. Meaning:Name; Renown, fame. Shem is a boy's name of Hebrew origin that means "name" and "fame" or “renown.” Some even suggest it embodies a conscious understanding of all of creation.

Interesting.

 

[Diamond72]

There have been, to be fair, hieratic kings in other cultures.

The Bible often contrasts the Kingdom of God with earthly kingdoms and rulers to emphasize the divine nature of God's rule versus human authority.

 

[Yekcidmij]

According to the Brave browser's AI:

Shem at Abraham's Birth​

Introduction to Shem and Abraham: Shem was one of the sons of Noah, and Abraham was his descendant. The age of Shem when Abraham was born can be calculated based on the information provided about their lives and the lives of their ancestors.​

• Shem’s Age at Abraham’s Birth: According to the provided information, Shem was 100 years old when Arphaxad, his son, was born, and he lived for another 500 years after this, making his age at death 600 years. Additionally, it is mentioned that Shem would have been alive to know Abraham and that Abraham was born when Shem was 390 years old, and his father Noah was 893 years old.
• Calculation of Shem’s Age: Another calculation suggests that if Terah became the father of three sons between the age of 70 to 130, then Shem must have been 450 years of age when Abram (Abraham) was born. However, the most direct information states that Shem was 390 years old when Abraham was born.
• Conclusion: Based on the information provided, Shem was 390 years old when Abraham was born.

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....only in the Masoretic Text. Though this could be part of what drove Rabbinic speculation about Melchizedek being Shem. In the Masoretic Text Shem would have been alive during Abraham's time. But this isn't so in the LXX or Samaritan Pentateuch.

 

[Jan001]

....only in the Masoretic Text. Though this could be part of what drove Rabbinic speculation about Melchizedek being Shem. In the Masoretic Text Shem would have been alive during Abraham's time. But this isn't so in the LXX or Samaritan Pentateuch.

How do you figure that conclusion?

I know the Catholic Bibles are based on the Septuagint, not the Masoretic.

I have no evidence that Shem is Melchizedek. I just showed that it is possible.

 

[Apple Sky]

I have no evidence that Shem is Melchizedek. I just showed that it is possible.

Who was MELCHIZEDEK and why is he IMPORTANT to us​

The SHOCKING Story of Melchizedek and His CONNECTION to Christ​

 

[The Liturgist]

I know the Catholic Bibles are based on the Septuagint, not the Masoretic.

Only the very first Roman Catholic bible, the second century Vetus Latina, was translated purely from the Masoretic in terms of the OT (and is mostly disused and partially lost, but some liturgical phrases like Gloria in Excelsis Deo come from it). Rather they often use the Masoretic; the Vulgate was translated directly from the Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts by St. Jerome, using the Septuagint only for the Psalter and for books where the Hebrew or Aramaic text could not be found (it has since turned up for several of them in the form of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which also have fragments attesting to Septuagint readings). The most recent Roman Catholic Bible to be translated from the Vulgate was the 18th century Challoner Douai Rheims.

However, it is the case that most Orthodox Bibles are based on the Septuagint, as we officially prefer it to other versions, except for the Syriacs who have the fourth century Peshitta, and the Ethiopians who have an ancient translation that provides a second source for much content in the Septuagint regarded by Roman Catholics and Anglicans as Deurerocanonical. The Russian Orthodox Church in the 19th century published a bible partially translated from the Masoretic, which was controversial, but nearly all Eastern Orthodox Bibles are based on the Septuagint and the received Byzantine text of the New Testament, and obviously this is due to the Greek-language heritage of these churches.

The small number of Byzantine Rite Catholics also usually use the same bibles as the Eastern Orthodox.