Who goes to hell?

[dollarsbill]

Since they are dead, they are not alive.

Since the living can be dead, so also can the dead be alive.

 

[dollarsbill]

I've already explained that the bible says they are consumed by the fire.

Then there would be no more need for the fire.

 

[old weatherd cross]

WHO GOES TO HELL ?

Everyone On This Planet

Some have already been.

Others are waiting to go.

Some fools, thinks it's cool
and want to go.

Most think they won't go.

Like It Or Not...

Everybody Goes

Perhaps, humans must experience hell to get to heaven?

It's really a lot to chew on when you stop and think about it.


BLESS Y'ALL !

 

[Timothew]

Since the living can be dead, so also can the dead be alive.

Yes, If Jesus Christ resurrects them from the dead, but then they are no longer dead, they are alive. The living can only be dead if they die, but then they are no longer living. Why is this confusing to you?

 

[Timothew]

Then there would be no more need for the fire.

OK

 

[dollarsbill]

Yes, If Jesus Christ resurrects them from the dead, but then they are no longer dead, they are alive. The living can only be dead if they die, but then they are no longer living. Why is this confusing to you?

Simply because you can't answer Rev and Luke 16 and others.

 

[Timothew]

Simply because you can't answer Rev and Luke 16 and others.

I did answer. You didn't like my answer.

Since you take John's Apocalypse literally, what is this?
And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns. (Revelation 13:1)

What kind of a beast is this?
Why don't two of two heads have any horns?
Or does each head have one horn and except three of them have two horns?
Is this a sea monster since it is coming out of the sea?
How does it wear crowns on it's horns?
Why doesn't the monster wear crowns on it's seven heads like a regular monster would?
Is it because there are 3 too many crowns and this would look weird?

 

[dollarsbill]

I did answer. You didn't like my answer.

Since you take John's Apocalypse literally, what is this?
And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns. (Revelation 13:1)

What kind of a beast is this?
Why don't two of two heads have any horns?
Or does each head have one horn and except three of them have two horns?
Is this a sea monster since it is coming out of the sea?
How does it wear crowns on it's horns?
Why doesn't the monster wear crowns on it's seven heads like a regular monster would?
Is it because there are 3 too many crowns and this would look weird?

If you can't understand this then that clears up a lot:

Revelation 14:10-11 (NASB)
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Still waiting for you to explain. You haven't yet.

 

[Timothew]

If you can't understand this then that clears up a lot:

Revelation 14:10-11 (NASB)
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Still waiting for you to explain. You haven't yet.

Post 129
http://www.christianforums.com/t7617067-13/#post59804546

Pay attention to the genre that you are reading. Apocalyptic is not literal. The Epistles can be read literally. The wages of sin is death. This is not figurative language. He will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, this is figurative. There is no literal cup involved. They pay the penalty of eternal destruction. They literally will be destroyed forever.

Pay attention to the genre you are reading or you will get confused.

 

[Timothew]

You didn't answer post 147.

What kind of beast was it. Was it an octopus?

 

[dollarsbill]

Apocalyptic is not literal.

That's your erroneous opinion. You have no proof whatsoever.

 

[WillieH]

Hi Huram... no offense is intended toward you in this response, rather a hope that new (and childlike) insight might be found BY you...

Yes, all the laws HANG on these two. They are suspended by and held up by the first two. Is this a summation? Only as much as a cornerstone is the summation of the entire structure.
They are not summaries, but one is the compliment of the other.

You begin your post with a fallacy as a foundation, and thereby your conclusions have no other recourse.

JESUS not only vocalized these 2 LAWS, He LIVED them. And in LIVING them, He... in SINFUL flesh, ...LIVED the PERFECT and SIN-LESS LIFE.

The word "PERFECT" means not only without BLEMISH, but COMPLETE, as well! Not IN NEED of ANY alteration.

The word "FULFILL" mean to FULLY (completely) FILL... or COMPLETE. If some "thing" is FULLY FILLED or COMPLETE then whatever did so, IN SUMMARY, became that "thing" in its INTENDED --- COMPLETENESS...

It ain't that hard and it ain't that complicated!

The use of words to impress others avoids the SIMPLICITY of TRUTH by complicating that which one (via unnecessary complicating/clouding) endeavors to communicate -- Psalm 19:7

Saying that these 2 laws are a summary of the whole they belong to makes nothing out of the whole of God's statutes and laws. We can prove this mathematically.


let x = the first 2 commandments and y = the whole of the law.

If x=y while y is inclusive of x, then y-x=y.


Solve for x


y-x=y
y-x(+x)=y+x
y-y=y+x(-y)
0=x


If x=0 and x=y, then y=0

You just make my point in this portion of your post.

The above portion, is FUTILITY and self-absorbtion, not EXPLANATION.

How might a mentally challenged person get ANYTHING out of what you just said, H-A?

No offense, but all this amounts to, ...is you IMPRESSING yourself... not YOU helping another to UNDERSTAND.

GOD is the ultimate being concerning COMPLEXITY, for He, being as COMPLEX as He ...IS... amidst His OMNISCIENCE... is smart enough to KNOW that He is communicating with beings that are NOTHING in MENTAL comparison to Himself... and that the WAY to communicate with them, is via CONDESENSION... not by the cryptic presentation of COMPLICATED MATHEMATICS! Please!

Matt 18:3 -- "Verily I say unto you ...except you be CONVERTED and BECOME as little CHILDREN, ye shall NOT enter into the Kingdom of HEAVEN."

Among other things, mentally...

A CHILD is:

1. Without ANY pre-conceptions...
2. An EMPTY vessel - awaiting information and experience...
3. Trusting in nothing but his/her parents LOVE...
4. Safe within the care of that TRUST...
5. A vessel that can be MOLDED and SHAPED...

and most pertinent to this discussion:

6. You and I, before we become FULL of ourselves


On the other hand and OPPOSITE these things, ...as MEN and WOMEN, we become:

1. PRIDEFUL in the embracing of our "opinions" and "preconceptions"...
2. FULL of ourselves... and the info and experiences we have...
3. Without COMPLETE TRUST in anyone...
4. Worrisome, unsure, devoid of FAITH...
5. HARDENED, in the misplaced esteem we embrace of "ME" we have become

And most pertinent to this discussion:

6. You and I, after we have become FULL of ourselves...


In order to SEE/HEAR SPIRITUAL TRUTH, one must "LET GO" of his/her NATURAL SELF, and the dependence and importance we place upon our OWN EGO oriented ...selves.

You've reduced the Law to nothing by saying that the law is equal to only a portion of itself.

No one has said that but YOU, H-A!

But those of us that can SEE/HEAR the TRUTH, already KNOW that the LAW is that which is FULFILLED by CHRIST... and is UNFULFILLED by us.

In that KNOWLEDGE... is FOUND the INNOCENCE of TRUST that we (all) LOST as our BEGINNING (child), departed from us, ...and in the CORRSIVENESS and CORRUPTION of TIME, ...was replaced with the PRIDE of individual "EGO", which far too much ESTEEMS its own "FULFILLING" of itself (the arrogance of "MY faith") over the DIEING to SELF, and yielding unto the FAITH OF ...JESUS ...in its place -- Gal 2:20 -- Rev 14:12

As long as one maintains the "FAITH" within oneself is... "MY FAITH", that one (sadly) remains WITHOUT ...HIS FAITH

And the HEART which enjoins this SELF-CENTERED perception, remains in its natural SELF-DECEPTION which is that which is above ALL other DECEIT that exists -- Jer 17:9



Peace...


...willieH

 

[Timothew]

That's your erroneous opinion. You have no proof whatsoever.

"And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns."

And you have no proof that dead people are really alive.
I do have proof that dead people are dead. I have death certificates for two dead people in my file of important papers. Both are dead. (In other words, they are not alive.) I have cerificates certifying that they are dead. I don't have certificates for the other dead people I know. They are buried, so I'm sure someone checked to make sure they are actually dead.

 

[WillieH]

Not that you shall answer from your NEGATIVE observational position... but I submit TRUTH for ALL to consider:

WHO GOES TO HELL ?

Everyone On This Planet -- Yeah, right!

Some have already been. -- No substanciation

Others are waiting to go. -- No substanciation

Some fools, thinks it's cool and want to go. -- No substanciation -- it is FOOLS which promote this HORROR in the place of teaching the GOSPEL as INSTRUCTED -- Mark 16:15

Most think they won't go. -- They won't

Like It Or Not... Says YOU in ignorance... without substanciation

Everybody Goes -- False, one cannot "go" to a non-existent place

Perhaps, humans must experience hell to get to heaven? No substanciation

It's really a lot to chew on when you stop and think about it. -- there is nothing to "chew upon" for all it is, is your own FEAR, and MISTRUST


BLESS Y'ALL ! Do you really think you have "blessed" US'ALL by this nonsense?

There is no "HELL", for ANYONE to "go to"!

Name ONE Scripture which says ANYONE shall "Go to Heaven" or "Go go Hell" ...BTW, ...I won't be holding my breathe

Instead of parroting the foolishness of RELIGION, ...if you would do even the slightest PERSONAL research on the terms in Greek and Hebrew which are translated into the English word "HELL", then you just might gain insight into the IN GENERAL misrepresentation of the GOSPEL, which is promoted by the CHRISTIAN RELIGION, ...to the WORLD in the name of CHRIST -- Matt 7:22-23

SHEOL -- Hebrew = GRAVE

HADES -- Greek = GRAVE

TARTARUS -- Greek = GRAVE

GEHENNA -- Greek = Actual place of SHAME just outside of Jerusalem in which lifeless bodies were cast IN SHAME... No LIVING thing was ever cast into it.

Your choice -- Rev 3:18 -- "buy" the GOLD or FACE your SHAME.

There is an alternative to the promotion of "HELL" (it would behoove you to consider it!)

It happens to be GOOD NEWS [Euaggelizo / Euaggelion] which contains no such HORRORS (created and thereby are BELIEVED), by MEN in the CORRUPTION of MISTRANSLATION [Hell or Annhilation] and are actively promoted by ORTHODOX Christianity to the WORLD that GOD SO UNCHANGINGLY -- Mal 3:6 -- Heb 13:8 -- James 1:17 ...LOVES.

And which He shall SAVE in its ENTIRETY for LOVE (which IS "GOD" -- 1 John 4:8) -- NEVER FAILS -- 1 Cor 13:8 -- In spite of that MISREPRESENTATION made by those MANY which claim to "come in His name"...


peace...

...willieH

 

[dollarsbill]

"And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns."

And???

And you have no proof that dead people are really alive.

The rich man died, but was still alive:

Luke 16:22-25 (NASB)
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25 "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

God's Word keeps proving that you are wrong.

 

[Timothew]

AND There aren't any beasts that have seven heads and ten horns. If you think this is a literal account, the burden of proof is on you to prove it.

The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Guy is a parable. All kinds of things happen in stories. This is not proof that dead people are alive.

Go out and find one dead person who is alive. Bring that living dead person to me. That would be proof that dead people are alive.

The wages of sin is death. God's word proves you wrong if you say there is no death.

 

[dollarsbill]

AND There aren't any beasts that have seven heads and ten horns. If you think this is a literal account, the burden of proof is on you to prove it.

God said it. Prove Him wrong.

The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Guy is a parable. All kinds of things happen in stories. This is not proof that dead people are alive.

It certainly is proof. The rich man died but was alive.

Go out and find one dead person who is alive. That would be proof that dead people are alive.

Luke 15:24
24 for this my son was dead and is alive again;

The wages of sin is death. God's word proves you wrong if you say there is no death.

All have sinned and are dead until they are born again. You were dead in your sins. Are you now alive or not?

 

[Ishraqiyun]

God said it. Prove Him wrong.

I believe it was the human author of the book who describes a vision he had in which that took place. It wasn't God having a vision nor did God write the book.

Horns have a history of being used symbolically to represent earthly powers or kings. I would look in that direction before I jumped to the conclusion that a literal godzilla creature was coming to attack. I highly doubt anyone would have thought to interpret it that way in the early years of Christianity either. It's an apocalyptic vision after all.

 

[dollarsbill]

I believe...

There ya go.

 

[old weatherd cross]

Not that you shall answer from your NEGATIVE observational position... but I submit TRUTH for ALL to consider:



There is no "HELL", for ANYONE to "go to"!

Name ONE Scripture which says ANYONE shall "Go to Heaven" or "Go go Hell" ...BTW, ...I won't be holding my breathe

Instead of parroting the foolishness of RELIGION, ...if you would do even the slightest PERSONAL research on the terms in Greek and Hebrew which are translated into the English word "HELL", then you just might gain insight into the IN GENERAL misrepresentation of the GOSPEL, which is promoted by the CHRISTIAN RELIGION, ...to the WORLD in the name of CHRIST -- Matt 7:22-23

SHEOL -- Hebrew = GRAVE

HADES -- Greek = GRAVE

TARTARUS -- Greek = GRAVE

GEHENNA -- Greek = Actual place of SHAME just outside of Jerusalem in which lifeless bodies were cast IN SHAME... No LIVING thing was ever cast into it.

Your choice -- Rev 3:18 -- "buy" the GOLD or FACE your SHAME.

There is an alternative to the promotion of "HELL" (it would behoove you to consider it!)

It happens to be GOOD NEWS [Euaggelizo / Euaggelion] which contains no such HORRORS (created and thereby are BELIEVED), by MEN in the CORRUPTION of MISTRANSLATION [Hell or Annhilation] and are actively promoted by ORTHODOX Christianity to the WORLD that GOD SO UNCHANGINGLY -- Mal 3:6 -- Heb 13:8 -- James 1:17 ...LOVES.

And which He shall SAVE in its ENTIRETY for LOVE (which IS "GOD" -- 1 John 4:8) -- NEVER FAILS -- 1 Cor 13:8 -- In spite of that MISREPRESENTATION made by those MANY which claim to "come in His name"...


peace...

...willieH

Your Rap is Lame Man.